Guest ChrisMR Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 As I investigated my former faith for the first time with a critical eye, it was as if a psychological barrier had been removed, and I could see all of the contradictions and concerns I had repressed and forgotten over the years. These concerns were things like "why didn't I get a chance to live without sin, why am I at fault for Adam and Eve's failure?" and "Why would God kill someone who touched his ark of the covenant just to save it from falling to the ground?" A lot of these concerns came from when I was very young, and had not been reconsidered since that time. I also remember the enormous doubt and subsequent guilt i felt as a 4 year old. I guess I was a lot smarter then than I ever was as a fully-grown Christian. I guess my question is, does my description of repressed contradictions coming flooding back ring true for any of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hi, welcome. Yes, I do know I as a Christian repressed a lot of the contradictions. Doing mental gymnastics was the only way to maintain faith. I think that's why Christians do a lot of the things they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisMR Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hi, welcome. Yes, I do know I as a Christian repressed a lot of the contradictions. Doing mental gymnastics was the only way to maintain faith. I think that's why Christians do a lot of the things they do. What scares me is that I was never aware of the "mental gymnastics" that I performed. Kinda like doublethink in 1984. Forgetting that you forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonolithTMA Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I rationalized a lot of the contradictions that were brought to my attention and some that I found, but the biggest thing for me was finally seeing that the OT god was a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisMR Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I rationalized a lot of the contradictions that were brought to my attention and some that I found, but the biggest thing for me was finally seeing that the OT god was a monster. For me it was the fact that a God who supposedly wanted a personal relationship with me would not communicate with me in a human way (Audible dialogue, physical presence) even once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 It means you have shed your cognitive dissonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 My deconversion was very long ago. The thing that hit me the most was shame. I felt ashamed at myself for allowing myself to not only take serious, but actually believe in all that crap. "How could I be so stupid?" Was a common theme in my brain. However, it is not "ignorance" it is "delusion" that holds you in religious grasps. The brainwashing starts as a baby, then into early childhood. All the xtian "childrens books", your parents you love and trust tell you it's true, exposure to church... It's like you barely have a choice! Becoming un-brainwashed without assistance sometimes is a likelong endeavour, and many fail at it. Pre-programing our kids is the first source of all new xtians. Converts are but a tiny number compared to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GlitterSno Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 My deconversion was very long ago. The thing that hit me the most was shame. I felt ashamed at myself for allowing myself to not only take serious, but actually believe in all that crap. "How could I be so stupid?" Was a common theme in my brain. That too, was a good portion of how I felt when I first started the deconversion process. I could not believe how I fell for such rubbish. I too, would *hide away* contradictions and stories in the bible that were too bothersome to look at. Hid them so well, I forgot about most of them. It was when I started to look back and remember them that totally floored me. I was truly delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 However, it is not "ignorance" it is "delusion" that holds you in religious grasps. I think that might be true to a degree, but it's not the whole truth. As for myself, I was raised in a fundementalist christian home in a christian community. I had nothing to measure my beliefs against, and as such believed because that's what all the models around me pointed to. When my ignorance was challenged with new information in the form of both formal and informal education and travel, my beliefs were challenged and eventually I shed them. So, for me, it was almost 100% ignorance, not delusion that kept me in religion's grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fritistat Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I also remember the enormous doubt and subsequent guilt i felt as a 4 year old. I guess I was a lot smarter then than I ever was as a fully-grown Christian. Or something as blatantly obvious as "God loves everyone" while at the same time dashing people to pieces with his right hand. Maybe it was the part where three guys were walking around in a furnace without bursting into flames. Or the talking shrubbery, snakes, and donkeys. I feel your "doh!" moment. It's actually funny now as I recall the idiotic shit I was spoon-fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Those childrens book are evil. They hide biblegod's evil works behind pretty pictures. A year ago, I was flipping though one of my old bible story books from when I was a kid, and there's this picture of a golden bronze snake on a stick surrounded by happy smiling people. I was like...what story is this? I don't recall it. So I read the story...then I read the actual Bible version of the story...then I'm like "Shit! God's not only a bastard, he's a historic amnesiac too! Magic snake statue + People formerly of Egypt (animal worship) = STUPID GOD!!!! Let's also ignore the reality of someone suffering from snakebite poison too. Paint that picture in there! Swelling, blackening, and gangrenous! The picture whould sure be colorful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 As I investigated my former faith for the first time with a critical eye, it was as if a psychological barrier had been removed, and I could see all of the contradictions and concerns I had repressed and forgotten over the years. These concerns were things like "why didn't I get a chance to live without sin, why am I at fault for Adam and Eve's failure?" and "Why would God kill someone who touched his ark of the covenant just to save it from falling to the ground?" A lot of these concerns came from when I was very young, and had not been reconsidered since that time. I also remember the enormous doubt and subsequent guilt i felt as a 4 year old. I guess I was a lot smarter then than I ever was as a fully-grown Christian. I guess my question is, does my description of repressed contradictions coming flooding back ring true for any of you? You hit the nail square on the head, ChrisMR... It happened for me over forty years ago, and I've been an Ex-Christian ever since. You've come upon a place of like-minded people here, Chris MR, and rest assured, we relate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha centauri Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Those childrens book are evil. They hide biblegod's evil works behind pretty pictures. A year ago, I was flipping though one of my old bible story books from when I was a kid, and there's this picture of a golden bronze snake on a stick surrounded by happy smiling people. I was like...what story is this? I don't recall it. So I read the story...then I read the actual Bible version of the story...then I'm like "Shit! God's not only a bastard, he's a historic amnesiac too! Magic snake statue + People formerly of Egypt (animal worship) = STUPID GOD!!!! Let's also ignore the reality of someone suffering from snakebite poison too. Paint that picture in there! Swelling, blackening, and gangrenous! The picture whould sure be colorful! Good point, White Raven! A golden calf is considered evil, but a bronze snake is considered good?! Isn't the serpent equated with evil everywhere else in the Bible? Yet in Numbers Chapter 21:8-9 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/21.html the serpent suddenly becomes a symbol of good??? What the f***?! You'd figure also that God would have the sense and foresight to know that in the future, the Israelites would actually start to worship this snake. But apparently not. Centuries later, one of the Israelite leaders has to break up the snake into pieces because the Israelites have started to burn incense to the snake, and they even named it Nehushtan (2 Kings 18:4 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2kg/18.html). Boy oh boy, what a strange and crazy (and short-sighted) god, huh? That is, unless it's one more example of the evil he admits he creates (see Isaiah 45:7 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/45.html) to screw around with his people. And to make things even stranger, in John 3:14, http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/3.html Jesus compares himself to the serpent that Moses raised in the wilderness. You mean the one that became a false idol and had to be destroyed back in 2nd Kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I guess I never delved into my former faith deeply after all. I never searched out the contradictions, never really questioned my orthodoxy all that much. I just dropped what I believed and left it at that. I sometimes search back on what I left behind, but since I never had the obsession to be all that devout, I guess that means I don't have the obsession to really search out why I could have left. So far, my amazement at the world (whether or not it was created) hasn't really ceased nor has my want to be a lifelong learner. If the fire is lit within to tear to shreds the Bible, then I'll do it but it hasn't happened thus far. I guess this is why all of us believe that deconversion is a very personal process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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