The Story Of Job

[Guest ChrisMR]

As a Christian, I read the entire book of Job. Then, my faith blinded me to the reality of the story. Now, I comprehend its true horror.

 

For those of you who haven't or won't read this crapfest, I offer a summary:

 

Job was man who worshiped and loved God, and God blessed Job's life. Job was constantly concerned with his and his family's obedience to God, and was blameless in God's sight. One day, however, Satan went to God and told God that Job only worshiped God because of the material blessings Job had received from God, and that if these things were taken away, Job would curse God. God therefore gave Satan permission to destroy everything Job had so long as Job himself was not harmed. All of Job's property was thereafter destroyed, and his children were killed in the collapse of his house. Apparently this was Satan's doing. In all of this, Job did not curse God, but worshiped him still. Satan, unsatisfied, returned to God in the same manner several times, until Satan had permission to do anything he liked to Job so long as Job did not die. In short order, Job breaks out in painful boils, gets sick, his wife tells him to curse God and die, and his friends come and tell him to repent of his apparently nonexistent sin. Job's discussions with his friends take up about 75% of the book. At the end, Job still refuses to curse God, but despairs of ever leaving his stricken state. At this point, God shows up and rebukes Job for his despair, but restores Job's possessions and give him new children, as if this could make up for his experience or his dead children.

 

If this isn't proof that the Bible is a horrible moral guide, what is? This is analogous to being tortured while your best friend stands by with a gun in his hand and discusses how to proceed with your torturer! Why haven't I come across any discussion of the book of Job?

[Deva]

"God himself has caused the misery, pain, agony, and loss that Job experienced. You can't just blame the Adversary. And it is important to remember what this loss entailed: not just loss of property, which is bad enough, but a ravaging of the body and the savage murder of Job's ten children. And to what end? For "no reason"--- other than to prove to the Satan that Job wouldn't curse God even if he had every right to do so. Did he have the right to do so? Remember, he didn't do anything to deserve this treatment. He actually was innocent, as God himself acknowledges. God did this to him in order to win a bet with the Satan. This is obviously a God above, beyond, and not subject to human standards. Anyone else who destroyed all your property, physically mauled you, and murdered your children--simply on a whim or a bet--would be liable to the most severe punishment that justice could mete out. But God is evidently above justice and can do whatever he pleases if he wants to prove a point."

 

God's Problem by Bart D. Ehrman pg. 168

 

 

All of the answers to the problem of suffering that are provided in the Bible range from unsatisfactory to horrible. I recommend this book. Ehrman tears each and every Biblical explanation of suffering apart and reveals the Bible for what it truly is - a horror.

[Piprus]

As a Christian, I read the entire book of Job. Then, my faith blinded me to the reality of the story. Now, I comprehend its true horror.

 

For those of you who haven't or won't read this crapfest, I offer a summary:

 

Job was man who worshiped and loved God, and God blessed Job's life. Job was constantly concerned with his and his family's obedience to God, and was blameless in God's sight. One day, however, Satan went to God and told God that Job only worshiped God because of the material blessings Job had received from God, and that if these things were taken away, Job would curse God. God therefore gave Satan permission to destroy everything Job had so long as Job himself was not harmed. All of Job's property was thereafter destroyed, and his children were killed in the collapse of his house. Apparently this was Satan's doing. In all of this, Job did not curse God, but worshiped him still. Satan, unsatisfied, returned to God in the same manner several times, until Satan had permission to do anything he liked to Job so long as Job did not die. In short order, Job breaks out in painful boils, gets sick, his wife tells him to curse God and die, and his friends come and tell him to repent of his apparently nonexistent sin. Job's discussions with his friends take up about 75% of the book. At the end, Job still refuses to curse God, but despairs of ever leaving his stricken state. At this point, God shows up and rebukes Job for his despair, but restores Job's possessions and give him new children, as if this could make up for his experience or his dead children.

 

If this isn't proof that the Bible is a horrible moral guide, what is? This is analogous to being tortured while your best friend stands by with a gun in his hand and discusses how to proceed with your torturer! Why haven't I come across any discussion of the book of Job?

The dilemma you post is not an uncommon one, and it was one I had to face as a christian kid.

First, I believe it's a fable. There was never a Job, and the events described never happened in reality. If, after all, "God" had cast out Satan and his minions, what the bloody hell was Satan doing, prancing around god's throne, and striking a wager with the all-knowing god over what Job would do if god suddenly cursed him?! It's a fable, with a lesson, no less than Aesop's fables. The tale of Job has a lesson that might have been applicable to people in the ages long past, but in the here and now, it's a relic. It's just part of the literature of the culture. Its value is only that.

[hereticzero]

I was taught the Book of Job was not a true story but a fictional story of a man named Job who was tested by God. One more fictional account accepted as truth by the christian minority.

[Guest ChrisMR]

My primary concern is not whether the book of Job is fictional or not, but rather, the fact that the story demands that we perceive God's glory, justice, and righteousness in the events that occur. People are getting guidance from this story whether the loss, death, and illness actually happened or not.

[hereticzero]

People claim they get guidance from the writings of Confucius and Buddha too. A book in itself can be true or untrue and still give us encouragement. My problem with stories are when people claim every word, sentence, and punctuation was directed by the hand of god and that everything written is true and without error. I get hope from Lord of the Rings when some do not. personal experiences helps one identify with the characters in the stories.

I have not had my family wiped out like Job did in the story but I have had to deal with personal tragedy on my own level and can identify with great misfortune. However, I do not believe that 'waiting upon the Lord' will renew my strength.

[Skiergirl24]

I wrote about this in my blog last year:

 

 

I would like to draw some parallels between how God treats his loyal servant, Job, and the way an abusive man treats his partner. It continues to amaze me that Jews and Christians truly believe that God is all loving yet still torments and sadistically tortures mankind. According to the Church, God has that right - God is the Supreme Being. This behavior - torture, torment, rape, murder, infanticide etc. comes from an infallible God. Thus, God's actions are infallible. Why then, do we get so upset when we hear about a woman being raped, beaten or murdered by her partner? God did these very things to thousands of people in the Bible. In many of the Biblical tales God "tested the faith" of his followers by punishing them and, in the end, these followers developed a greater love and understanding of God. Was God just testing Sharon Rocha's faith when he allowed Scott Peterson (or maybe God ordered the Devil to make Scott strangle his 8 months pregnant wife, bing her, tie her feet to cement blocks, and dump her lifeless body in the bay) murder her and her unborn baby? If we are to believe the Bible, then God purposely killed Laci and Connor to test the allegiance of Laci's family. Wow, that sounds like a loving God, doesn't it?

 

The book of Job is a long story designed to explain the existence of evil and suffering in the world. It falls short. This is it in a nutshell:

 

Job was a very wealthy man with several children who had families. Job owned livestock, property, and trading companies. On a bet with God, Satan arranged for Job's children and their families to be killed, his livestock stolen and his caravans robbed. Job lost everything he had except his own life. Pressing the bet even more, Satan afflicted Job with a terrible skin disease. Despite these catastrophes, Job did not curse God, even though his own wife urged him to do so. In fact, Job tore his robes as a sign of Grief and due to his immense faith in the Lord he lay down before God worshipped the Creator.

 

Notice how similar God's actions are to those of an abusive partner:

 

Abusive individuals need to feel in charge of the relationship. They will make decisions for you and the family, tell you what to do, and expect you to obey without question. Your abuser may treat you like a servant, child, or even as his possession.

 

Abusers commonly use threats to keep their victims from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets.

 

The abuser lashes out with aggressive or violent behavior. The abuse is a power play designed to show the victim "who is boss."

 

Abusers are very good at making excuses for the inexcusable. (Not only does this sound like God but also, the Church's explanations for suffering). They will blame their abusive and violent behavior on a bad childhood, a bad day, and even on the victims of their abuse. (Doesn't God blame evil on Satan??)

 

The abuser sets up the victim and puts his plan in motion, creating a situation where he can justify abusing her. (How many times in the Bible - OT and NT-does God set people up to be hurt and tortured??)

 

To be blunt: I fail to see how anyone capable of average cognitive functioning and of sound mind could worship a God who willingly tortures and torments his followers.

[bush country]

Job is one of those stories that xians use to justify "god's ways are not our ways, his ways are higher than ours and we can never understand, he can do what he wants because he's god".

 

I call BS on that. God's ways don't even come up to a minimum acceptable standard for human behavior. Why would anyone want to worship a god like that?

[mwc]

The story of Job also begs some questions. Like what if Job HAD cursed YHWH? We saw what happened when he was a loyal follower that got a little depressed but what if he'd totally turned? Smiting? Torture? Bowels of hades? The Satan getting his what for (since YHWH would never concede losing)?

 

We're seeing the positive side of the story and it's pretty crappy. I shudder to imagine the alternatives.

 

mwc

[mlr72]

My primary concern is not whether the book of Job is fictional or not, but rather, the fact that the story demands that we perceive God's glory, justice, and righteousness in the events that occur. People are getting guidance from this story whether the loss, death, and illness actually happened or not.

 

I very much concur.

 

This has been one of the things that seriously irritates me with xtians in defense of their religion. The "God did it, and that settles it," mentality. Very few things annoy me more.

 

When I was a xtian, the book of Job was my favorite book in the bible because of it's appeal to the nature lover in me. But now that I read this thread, you're all right--this book is absolutely nauseating. The thought of any god allowing one of their most devoted followers to go through a literal hell on earth as the result of a cosmic pissing contest is enough to make any thinking person's stomach turn. And what's even worse, when something tragic does happen to a xtian, they praise the very one who caused the tragedy in the first place.

 

Once again, it's the "Worship-me-or-I'll-kill-you" attitude of xtianity that most church-goers are afraid to confront, lest a lightning bolt fall through the ceiling and strike them dead. Ultimately, they become empty, mindless drones.

 

I have not had my family wiped out like Job did in the story but I have had to deal with personal tragedy on my own level and can identify with great misfortune. However, I do not believe that 'waiting upon the Lord' will renew my strength.

 

Again, I concur. But the longer I waited, the more I felt let down and treated like the proverbial step-child.

[Guest proud agnostic]

"God himself has caused the misery, pain, agony, and loss that Job experienced. You can't just blame the Adversary. And it is important to remember what this loss entailed: not just loss of property, which is bad enough, but a ravaging of the body and the savage murder of Job's ten children. And to what end? For "no reason"--- other than to prove to the Satan that Job wouldn't curse God even if he had every right to do so. Did he have the right to do so? Remember, he didn't do anything to deserve this treatment. He actually was innocent, as God himself acknowledges. God did this to him in order to win a bet with the Satan. This is obviously a God above, beyond, and not subject to human standards. Anyone else who destroyed all your property, physically mauled you, and murdered your children--simply on a whim or a bet--would be liable to the most severe punishment that justice could mete out. But God is evidently above justice and can do whatever he pleases if he wants to prove a point."

 

God's Problem by Bart D. Ehrman pg. 168

 

 

All of the answers to the problem of suffering that are provided in the Bible range from unsatisfactory to horrible. I recommend this book. Ehrman tears each and every Biblical explanation of suffering apart and reveals the Bible for what it truly is - a horror.

[Guest proud agnostic]

"God himself has caused the misery, pain, agony, and loss that Job experienced. You can't just blame the Adversary. And it is important to remember what this loss entailed: not just loss of property, which is bad enough, but a ravaging of the body and the savage murder of Job's ten children. And to what end? For "no reason"--- other than to prove to the Satan that Job wouldn't curse God even if he had every right to do so. Did he have the right to do so? Remember, he didn't do anything to deserve this treatment. He actually was innocent, as God himself acknowledges. God did this to him in order to win a bet with the Satan. This is obviously a God above, beyond, and not subject to human standards. Anyone else who destroyed all your property, physically mauled you, and murdered your children--simply on a whim or a bet--would be liable to the most severe punishment that justice could mete out. But God is evidently above justice and can do whatever he pleases if he wants to prove a point."

 

God's Problem by Bart D. Ehrman pg. 168

 

 

All of the answers to the problem of suffering that are provided in the Bible range from unsatisfactory to horrible. I recommend this book. Ehrman tears each and every Biblical explanation of suffering apart and reveals the Bible for what it truly is - a horror.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok sorry about that this is my first time posting I'm learning how to work this thing. But anyway, when I was a Christian the book of JOB was my favorite book. I really don't know why except I looked at it as even through all the hell he was put through he endured. but now I see it as why do people get mad at the devil when he can't do anything without god's permission.

[par4dcourse]

Reading more of the wholly babble is to me similar to the old joke about the bad restaraunt. The food is terrible, but they give you lots of it.

Edited to add: Welcome proud agnostic. Love your avatar. This blog software is very easy to use and you'll be an expert in no time.

Again, welcome.

[Guest proud agnostic]

Reading more of the wholly babble is to me similar to the old joke about the bad restaraunt. The food is terrible, but they give you lots of it.

Edited to add: Welcome proud agnostic. Love your avatar. This blog software is very easy to use and you'll be an expert in no time.

Again, welcome.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for welcoming me. And that's a good analogy there too. One day I will write my ex testimony on here in more depth.

[AKR]

"God himself has caused the misery, pain, agony, and loss that Job experienced. You can't just blame the Adversary. And it is important to remember what this loss entailed: not just loss of property, which is bad enough, but a ravaging of the body and the savage murder of Job's ten children. And to what end? For "no reason"--- other than to prove to the Satan that Job wouldn't curse God even if he had every right to do so. Did he have the right to do so? Remember, he didn't do anything to deserve this treatment. He actually was innocent, as God himself acknowledges. God did this to him in order to win a bet with the Satan. This is obviously a God above, beyond, and not subject to human standards. Anyone else who destroyed all your property, physically mauled you, and murdered your children--simply on a whim or a bet--would be liable to the most severe punishment that justice could mete out. But God is evidently above justice and can do whatever he pleases if he wants to prove a point."

 

God's Problem by Bart D. Ehrman pg. 168

 

 

All of the answers to the problem of suffering that are provided in the Bible range from unsatisfactory to horrible. I recommend this book. Ehrman tears each and every Biblical explanation of suffering apart and reveals the Bible for what it truly is - a horror.

 

Huh, I might have to check out that book. I'm working my way through his other book, "Misquoting Jesus."

 

 

I have been disturbed by this story since I was a young teen. What kind of a sadistic, egotistical, insecure asshole makes a bet with the devil to prove that his victim will love him no matter how much he treats the poor guy like shit? I mean, not only is it sick to murder this man's family and livestock, but to do it for the sake of proving to satan, who is supposedly the lowest of the low, that some dude will still love him. I mean, how insecure and sadistic do you have to be to do this? What kind of a god would do this? A poorly written fictional one.

 

 

What bothers me even more is the sick justifications that you will get from christians. "Oh, god replaced all of his dead stuff with new stuff!" Or "but it's ok, because they just go to heaven!" When I ask them if that makes it ok for me to kill people, so long as I can revive them, they don't know what to say. Next time, I should ask them if it's ok if I make a child, kill it, and then make a new child with the same mother to replace our dead one. "Oh, but we made a new one, so f*ck that last one!" Who cares if they're not permantly dead, or if you make new ones. It doesn't take away from the fact that you're murdering people on a bet, which causes pain for everyone involved, including that moron job, who still loved god after all of that. I don't know how any idiot can claim that this god is a loving god. Sure, a god who loves himself.

[Justin]

Come now people. God can do what he wants to us, we just have to have faith and believe that all that shit is in our best interest. Now bow down and plant your head up god's holy asshole before he destroys you and all that you love, but if he does that remember to keep the faith that he loves you and is only doing this out of his unconditional love for you. Awww, now ain't that nice.

 

The story of Job begs many quesitons apart from the obvious, the deal that the good lord made with the supposed most supreme vile and evil being in existance so that the good lord could use one of his most loyal followers as a voodoo doll to see if he loves him even though the answer to that was already very obvious. But as another poster already pointed out, what was satan doing going to meet god if he was confined to hell? Also, were the hell did satan get his god like powers to afflict job with boils and kill his children and sicken him? But remember, as we seek these answers, we must have faith that he loves us just as he loved job and therefore all is happy.