ogilvy Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 i still have a long way to go in re-thinking my attitudes to just about everything, finding i dont believe in the bible any more. its a strange sensation. for instance i was listening on radio to a program about people who provide places for street people to come and eat and do activities. one of them was a catholic one, and a woman was talking about why they do it. and she said 'we have to think how God would see this person', ie. God would think that person had worth and dignity. it sounded good but i thought, 'hey wait on, but God's going to send that person to hell if they are not a believer!' for 20 years i've accepted such statements about God, which are made so glibly. but when you really think about it, they are simply not consistent with what the bible says. from the bible, if they are not believers, God thinks they are wicked, evil people, an abomination. thats just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freepagan Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 The problem is that the followers of christianity try mix humanistic ideas with outright sadism. That's like trying to say that day is night. The cliches will not last much longer in the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 17, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2008 You are already more just and compassionate than the imaginary god character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bragg Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 A good way of seeing it as it really is is to crack open your bible. Do not listen to christians who try and paint their imaginary god in a much better light than he appears in the old testement. Sure they say god is loving, compasionate and good natured, but if you read the old testament you will see that this just is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha centauri Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 The problem is that the followers of christianity try mix humanistic ideas with outright sadism. That's like trying to say that day is night. The cliches will not last much longer in the church. I agree. I was talking to a liberal Christian yesterday who was raving about the morality and lessons of goodness, kindness and sacrifice in the Bible. I pointed out that there are plenty of other places you can find examples of morality, goodness, kindness and love without all the evil and contradictions mixed in. My friend/co-worker also has a problem with the idea of hell, but if the Bible is to be believed, then Jesus clearly spoke of throwing billions of people into hell. And if the Bible is NOT to be believed, what's the point of Christianity? I mean, you either accept it or you reject it. You'd think God would be smart enough to only allow good stuff in his book, right? As for the moral lessons and good teachings of the Bible and Christianity, that's really offset but the vindictiveness, cruelty, discrimination and evil of this supposedly loving and forgiving god. It's like combining a gormet meal with a pile of shit, and mixing them all together on the same plate. It's astonishing, but some people will insist it's all good (the fundies). Others will say "Hey, if you hold your nose and ignore the shit, there's some pretty good stuff in there (uh, no thanks). Fortunately, this friend/co-worker is open-minded. I could tell I was making him think in ways he hadn't bothered to think before. We plan to continue over conversation over a beer sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha centauri Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 A good way of seeing it as it really is is to crack open your bible. Do not listen to christians who try and paint their imaginary god in a much better light than he appears in the old testement. Sure they say god is loving, compasionate and good natured, but if you read the old testament you will see that this just is not the case. Yep, that's what did it for me, Alan. It's amazing what people who call themselves Christians don't know about their own Bible/god. And those who do know go to great lengths to try and excuse and rationalize this god's actions. If all else fails, they fall back on "Hey, he's perfect and I'm not. I just have to trust him and have faith. Who am I to question?" Well, why question Allah, or Zeus, or Vishnu, or Buddha, or any of the other countless gods out there. The Christian will rigidly claim "Those gods aren't true." But they are just as true to some people as Yahweh/Jesus/Holy Ghost, and I'm sure some people think they've experienced miracles and answered prayers from those gods. Plus, do you really want to worship someone who does things that turn your stomach and demands unquestioned obedience to things even most children know is stupid, wrong or evil? Others will say, well the Old Testament was one thing, and God turned a new leaf in the New Testament. If that's true, then god is a liar, because he claimed he was the same yesterday, today and forever. And in the New Testament, Jesus still said he came not to bring peace but the sword, and to divide families against each other (Matt. 10:34-36). And he spoke of casting people into hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvy Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 "If all else fails, they fall back on "Hey, he's perfect and I'm not. I just have to trust him and have faith. Who am I to question?""quote its interesting (and annoying) how they come up with this response, like, similarly, his ways are higher and we cant understand them. yet they dont come up with that response in relation to the 'nice' things about God. why couldnt we say, "God seems loving and kind, but we dont understand his ways" i.e. it might not be so, like they say about his cruelty. if this makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycatlady Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I remember one of my friends trying to get me back to the fold by saying that none of the stuff in the bible never really happened -- it's a symbolic story. She then went on to say that the bad stuff was put in there as a scare technique and it was all false. She didn't clearly explain how she came to this conclusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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