Guest shadyk8 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have yet to come out of the ex-believer closet with some of my family and friends. The reason? It hurts them too much. They believe, without a doubt, than non-believers will burn in Hell. Having once been a believer myself I can understand their feelings. This has been going on for several years and I feel like a phony and a coward. I feel anger toward all Christians because I cannot talk to them. I cannot argue with faith. Faith ends all discussions where logic and reason should win. I wonder if perhaps this is a stage for ex-believers. Something I will pass through on my way to clearer thinking and self expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Faith ends all discussions Yes it does. Faith is a near-inpenetrable, brick wall. The bullets of logic and reason may chip and scar it and eventually the sledgehammer of reality may crack or smash it, but it takes time because it is really a wall built by fear. You definitely aren't alone. Coming out is a scary thing though because many people often end up alienated from those they love. Keep posting though. You will find support and acceptance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderer Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have yet to come out of the ex-believer closet with some of my family and friends. The reason? It hurts them too much. They believe, without a doubt, than non-believers will burn in Hell. Having once been a believer myself I can understand their feelings. This has been going on for several years and I feel like a phony and a coward. I feel anger toward all Christians because I cannot talk to them. I cannot argue with faith. Faith ends all discussions where logic and reason should win. I wonder if perhaps this is a stage for ex-believers. Something I will pass through on my way to clearer thinking and self expression. That's a tough place to be. The bible itself draws a line in the sand - Luke 12:53: "They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." The problem is that if your family and friends follow it to the letter, there can be no closeness between you. I can see that you believe that they live in an absolute universe that is defined by their dogma, and that they can't carry on a conversation with you that allows any compromise. The question is: is that really the case? For all you know, one or more of them may be faking it for your sake. You'll never know until you come clean. I lost friends and family when I confessed that I was not only an unbeliever, I was pretty certain that what we had all been believeing was pure fabrication, devised by men for the purpose of controlling other men (and women, too, of course). At first they prayed for me, and finally, they sadly shook their heads and walked away from me. Some of them have eventually discovered what I did, but none of them ever came back and apologized for rejecting me. In the long run, I was better off. The worst place to be is stuck between those two realities, but the truth is, people who would turn their backs on you, simply because of what you say about what's really happening inside you, are not worth caring about. I know that sounds harsh, but you're better off finding friends and making your own family where truth is honored more than appearances. My 2 cents, for what they're worth. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 22, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2008 Welcome, K8. I hope you find the support you need here. It's tough for a lot of people. FWIW, I realized that people were liking/loving someone who didn't exist after I de-converted. There was no point in continuing that charade. OTOH, there are some who live in circumstances that are safer keeping up the charade for professional or personal reasons. For example, I probably wouldn't jeopardize a good job and I wouldn't break the heart of a 90 year old dying relative. The decision to "come out" depends a lot on your circumstances and emotional makeup. At least it's safe to be yourself here. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendredie Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have never been able to talk about religion in my family. My parents are both Christian but my dad's fine with my beliefs. My mom isn't, and it's difficult to explain to her what I believe, why, and how I haven't been struck down by lightning yet. (the latter may be because I hide inside during storms.... and I don't mean hanging out inside, I mean cowering in a corner with a heavy blanket over my head and my hands over my ears) Religion is always something that has fascinated me, but it's difficult to talk about with family because it rarely comes up. My mom hates that I'm an atheist, my sister does too (she told my mom I was an atheist) and I don't know about anyone outside my immediate family except my agnostic grandmother and Catholic uncle, aunt, and cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycatlady Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have yet to come out of the ex-believer closet with some of my family and friends. The reason? It hurts them too much. They believe, without a doubt, than non-believers will burn in Hell. Having once been a believer myself I can understand their feelings. This has been going on for several years and I feel like a phony and a coward. I feel anger toward all Christians because I cannot talk to them. I cannot argue with faith. Faith ends all discussions where logic and reason should win. I wonder if perhaps this is a stage for ex-believers. Something I will pass through on my way to clearer thinking and self expression. I've come out to some of my friends, but not to my family yet. One of my friends was assuring me that everything would be okay because my parents love me and want the best for me. That's true and that's the problem, though. My parents love me too much to let me burn in hell. I tell them, and I'm going to get tough love until I'm back at church. It shouldn't be like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I have yet to come out of the ex-believer closet with some of my family and friends. The reason? It hurts them too much. They believe, without a doubt, than non-believers will burn in Hell. Having once been a believer myself I can understand their feelings. This has been going on for several years and I feel like a phony and a coward. I feel anger toward all Christians because I cannot talk to them. I cannot argue with faith. Faith ends all discussions where logic and reason should win. I wonder if perhaps this is a stage for ex-believers. Something I will pass through on my way to clearer thinking and self expression. Hi, Shady... I guess the best approach is to simply be your self, and that is to be the best person you can be, as an unbeliever. Eventually, your family and friends will have to reconcile within themselves that you are a great person... honest, ethical, and charitable, but yet without a christian belief. They will have to accept in the end that religion is just not necessary to be good. And they will have to think....it doesn't mean they will deconvert as you have, but in their minds they will have to accept that no gods or Jesuses are necessary to be a good person. We are judged by others on the good that we do. If it is known that we are non-religious, yet good, what does that tell them? 'Tis a mighty good life on those terms, Shady... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Hey k8, I still feel as you do with family. A couple quick tales for you... The first weekend of December last year, I was flying to Washington DC with my mother, two sisters and grandmother to attend a wedding. On the flight, I was reading John Armstrong's "God vs. The Bible" and my little sister started prodding me. My other sister (unbeliever or just Biblical cynic, I don't know) and I started defending our positions about how the Bible is flawed in different ways with my sister taking the gender stance and I took the "man-made" stance. My mother made a comment, "I think my two oldest children are atheists." My mother is still the same loving person I have always known and I think she knows about my disbelief in Christianity. Since then, she hasn't voiced anything on that particular subject about whether or not she knows. All I know for now is that she and the rest of my family hasn't stopped loving me. On the flip side, I ran into a high school friend at my job about two months ago and we caught up at lunch time. He told me about getting the "most worthless degree in human history", which to him was religion. From his end, there was no convincing evidence for him to believe in Christianity anymore. I finally relayed my feelings out loud publically for the first time. Suprisingly, none of my co-workers seemed to mind. Many of them were jaded toward church anyway. This probably isn't surprising since we are all teachers and paid thinkers. Point is, if you to reveal yourself to the world, do it to people who no stake in your personal life at all. They'll likely shrug it off as no big thing. From there, you might to try in with your family. Just my thoughts, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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