Do Christians Like To Think Illogically Or Logically?

[MesaGman]

There's that saying that "God works in mysterious ways". or "God's ways are not our ways". which would make understanding his motives a little bit tricky.

 

But does this mean that Christians don't like to think logically about their problems or the problems of the world? because if a rational person, the scientific method, one can examin a problem or moral conundrum, and come up with a sensible solution.

 

Example, take a 3rd world country's low infant mortality rate. one could conclude that it's over run with devils and monsters and ghosts and zombies, and demons making children sick, and thus people will pray and exocise demons with "The Power of Jesus compells you". OR.... one could look at the enviromental conditions that the people live in, perhaps the mother is malnourished and doesn't have the physical ability to birth a healthy baby. or, maybe there are water diseases, or there are mosquitoes biting the hell out of the children.

 

Which would make sense then? trying to organize the neighborhood, or hospital, or using charitiable funds to help the midwives birth the children in a healthy condition, or chase away the demons inside the baby, with holy water, and chanting?

 

The sensible person would chose the sensible and logical answer, improve the quality of life for children. A religious person would say.... it was God's will that the baby or child dies, that it's all part of his plan, and that "God Works in mysterious ways".

[Grandpa Harley]

Can a mindset based wholly on supernatural ideas actually be logical? Effectively, and omnipotent and omniscient god is de facto irrational since it is not bound by rules or limits, or, at best, the rules are arbitrary.

 

So, the Christian may like to claim it thinks logically, but it can only be within an irrational frame work, thus it is illogical in an objective sense.

[Vigile]

I think xians are illogical in areas that they are not educated enough to understand or in situations where it is discomforting for them to face the reality that they, and they alone must handle the challenges they are faced with.

 

For example, if a xian has a spouse dying of cancer, they resort to an illogical position that god somehow has a will in the matter and that if he wants he may or may not heal the spouse.

 

OTH, most modern xians are much more logical about practical matters than their bible tells them to be. None of them go around drinking poison, hardly any of them sell all their positions and become babbling loons that harrass perfect strangers about the dangers of hell. Almost all of them deal with the same set of daily responsibilities that the rest of us do as they get up in the morning, go to work, and pay their bills, and maintain their houses and their automobiles.

 

So, I'd say that 90% of the time xians live in a world of reality whether they admit it to themselves or not. They do so because it is necessary. It's when they rationalize this that we atheist accuse them of cherry picking their faith.

[MesaGman]

so their logic is selective.... they chose to believe in physics and rational realities, but at the same time turn it off. Like selective hearing I see.

[florduh]

They have their own internal logic like fantasy and science fiction plots. It makes sense in context.

 

That's what all those Bible commentaries are about.

 

Of course it all falls apart in the real world where we have no witches, demons, prophets, or miracles.

[par4dcourse]

Christian logic = an oxymoron.

[Ouroboros]

Religion can be internally logically coherent, or like Gramps said within its framework and also what he said, in the objective way it is not. I would say in the universal context it's usually not, since it tends to contradicts reality and existing, provable, theories of the world. So the answer is both yes and no. Christianity is not logically in comparison to the world as a whole, or in relation to other religions or views. Internally, hypothetically, it could be logically consistent, but I have yet to see anyone be able to argue it. (Actually, the only one I saw come close was a visitor we had a while back that wasn't a real Christian at all, but a spoof.)

[Shion]

Humans themselves are not logical creatures. Logical thinking must be taught to our children. For Christianity to exist it must evade a logical structure, because it relies solely on emotionalism to exist. For a 'logical Christian' to exist, they must partition the world into two halves: "Church World" & "Physical World."

[MesaGman]

But with rational people, we know there are no such things as Jedis, the Force, Klingons, Elves, Hobbits, Magical underware Gnomes, and the Bible's magical beings like angels, whales that swallow people, He man (Samson), and magical Arks that blast holes. arn't real.

 

But to Christians irrational things are real.

[Vigile]

But with rational people, we know there are no such things as Jedis, the Force, Klingons, Elves, Hobbits, Magical underware Gnomes, and the Bible's magical beings like angels, whales that swallow people, He man (Samson), and magical Arks that blast holes. arn't real.

 

But to Christians irrational things are real.

 

I agree, but also to xians, real things are real. They pay their bills because they know that the holy ghost isn't going to provide for them the way Jesus told his disciples that "if god cares for the least of these creatures, how much more will he care for your needs." (My own paraphrase from memory)

 

My point is that xians only talk irrationally, but the real world forces them to live at least as rationally as the rest of us.

 

If xians were as irrational as their religion, they would be going nuts trying to save their loved ones and friends from hell. As it stands, they behave as if they don't really believe it's all true. It's not internalized with them. Their faith is shallow and the joke is that everyone can see that but themselves.

 

Try out this example:

 

Go up to your average xian and tell them you saw an angel. Their eyes will bug out, they will get chills, and they will wax eloquant about the mysteries of god's love for us.

 

Now tell that same xian that the angel told you to sell everything you own, give the proceeds to the poor, and to pick up your cross and share the good news with the heathen.

 

Your average xian response would be dubious. They would reason with you that perhaps you should pray on the matter more. Consult your pastor, etc...

[The-Captain]

They make a virtue of being illogical.

[Shion]

But with rational people, we know there are no such things as Jedis, the Force, Klingons, Elves, Hobbits, Magical underware Gnomes, and the Bible's magical beings like angels, whales that swallow people, He man (Samson), and magical Arks that blast holes. arn't real.

 

But to Christians irrational things are real.

 

I agree, but also to xians, real things are real. They pay their bills because they know that the holy ghost isn't going to provide for them the way Jesus told his disciples that "if god cares for the least of these creatures, how much more will he care for your needs." (My own paraphrase from memory)

 

My point is that xians only talk irrationally, but the real world forces them to live at least as rationally as the rest of us.

 

If xians were as irrational as their religion, they would be going nuts trying to save their loved ones and friends from hell. As it stands, they behave as if they don't really believe it's all true. It's not internalized with them. Their faith is shallow and the joke is that everyone can see that but themselves.

 

Try out this example:

 

Go up to your average xian and tell them you saw an angel. Their eyes will bug out, they will get chills, and they will wax eloquant about the mysteries of god's love for us.

 

Now tell that same xian that the angel told you to sell everything you own, give the proceeds to the poor, and to pick up your cross and share the good news with the heathen.

 

Your average xian response would be dubious. They would reason with you that perhaps you should pray on the matter more. Consult your pastor, etc...

 

Exactly. You can ask the average Christian why does the earth go around the sun? Most will respond 'cause of gravity.' Only a small minority will tell you because 'God pushes the planets that way.'

[Neon Genesis]

I think Christians secretly wish they could think illogically but they have to think "logically" whenever it's convenient for them in order to make their beliefs seem more plausible to unbelievers. Yesterday when I was debating with a Catholic friend about why God doesn't heal amputees, she said that God has to work within the laws of logic, but then she immediately turned around and said faith was illogical. That makes no sense to me, that God supposedly must work within laws of logic that he creates, but we have to understand him illogically. You can't understand logic by thinking illogically. They're two entirely opposing concepts. It'd be like me trying to solve a math problem without following the instructions needed to solve it. I've noticed when debating with her that she almost always uses the "God must work within laws of logic" argument whenever it's convenient for her to use it to prove God is real, but then whenever I try to disprove her claims, suddenly she claims faith is illogical because it would be inconvenient for her to think logically about the effects of prayers because that would mean she would have to admit that she has no evidence to support her claims God answers prayers for people who need it and that would be inconvenient for her faith.

[Vigile]

I think Christians secretly wish they could think illogically

 

That's a good point. I used to feel guilty that I didn't have faith the size of a mustard seed. I knew I didn't really believe like a child the way I was told I must. It was at one time a great distress in my life.

 

she said that God has to work within the laws of logic, but then she immediately turned around and said faith was illogical

 

At that point I would have said "C'mon! Admit it. You believe only because you want to believe."

[MesaGman]

I wonder where the apologists are?

[MesaGman]

Christians I'm waiting for your answer.

[Jincks013]

Xtians say "try to be like god" then they say "We cannot know the ways of god" It is fair to say they are not very good at critical thinking or analyzing their 'faith' at all. In order to actually think they must have a purpose and reasoning is based on data, information and evidence of which there is very little (none) to support most of their base ideas and assumptions (if you are bad you will go to hell) but there is no data to actually support this assumption so the answer is no.. xtians cannot think logically.

[Guest not ashamed]

Ok, this is the first time I have ever posted on this site before and I have enjoyed reading the posts so far but I have to stand up for at least a small minority of believers and claim that we are able to think logically about our beliefs in God. I will go ahead and say that there are certain aspects of our faith that no matter how much you try to "church" them up they just seem a little out of touch with reality. However there are other aspects that have, for me anyways, become so concrete that I could not imagine living without them.

 

I will touch on the outer space Christian beliefs first. It is some of the most difficult things to believe, at first. How someone could walk on water or people coming back to life seems far fetched, but the longer I live and the more I think about things as complex as the human body or the make-up of our atmoshere I find myself being able to believe the things talked about throughout the bible. For instance, I love to fish and the other day I was able to go out and catch a few fish down at the lake. When I got home and started preparing the fish for my wife and I to eat I was amazed at how intricate the bone-structure of that little fish was. I logically could not conclude any other explanation for such a sight other than that it must have been perfectly designed that way.

 

Before you go and blast me with evolution, I do understand it, and I have always had a harder time logically comprehending the theory than believing in the designing of creation by an intelligent being.

 

These are my thoughts and I know you can find gaps in my reasoning but you must believe that I too can find plenty of gaps in yours as well. As long as humans have existed we have had a hard time understanding how one another thinks and how we each choose to live our lives.

 

thanks for reading

[The-Captain]

As far as first posts go that was pretty good.

 

Just keep in mind, its quite a stretch to go from looking at the intricacy of a fish and presupposing a creator to believing in Jehovah and all the loveliness of the Bible. There is mystery and beauty in the universe, but an incomplete understanding is no reason to go filling in the blanks with a god.

 

Anyway welcome to the site.

[hereticzero]

so their logic is selective.... they chose to believe in physics and rational realities, but at the same time turn it off. Like selective hearing I see.

Christianity bad mouths science more because of evolution and creation, the proof of which (fossil fuels) they burn in their SUVs every time they go to church and discuss how dinosaurs and fossils were put here to fool us.

[Justin]

For instance, I love to fish and the other day I was able to go out and catch a few fish down at the lake. When I got home and started preparing the fish for my wife and I to eat I was amazed at how intricate the bone-structure of that little fish was. I logically could not conclude any other explanation for such a sight other than that it must have been perfectly designed that way.

 

Why does complexity have to mean design? Can you honestly not see how something complex can come about over hundreds of millions of years of evolution? Why is the supernatural and mysticism always applied to everything by you people?

[Justin]

I think that some christians who think they are thinking logically are in fact not. Look at Ken Ham and other creationist nut jobs like him. They twist and pervert science to fit their agenda's, ignore or deny actual science, all the while thinking they are being "logical" because they aren't falling back on the usual biblical bullshit like most christians do. By and large they don't think logically. How can someone think logically, for when it's all said and done, they still subscribe to supernatural, lunatic myths?

[florduh]

Since the subject is logic, if a god designed the fish then he also designed the single cell creature. If complexity implies deliberate design, then what does simplicity imply? The same thing?

 

If he made the fish, then he also made the two-headed calf. And the human child born with his brain outside his skull. He designed the microbes and bacteria, as well as effective distribution of same through creations such as mosquitoes.

 

He designed salmonella. HIV and colds.

 

In fact, he must have designed creatures from single cells all the way to the most complex and everything in between. He made them appear to evolve from one form to another, building on complexity, just to fool us.

 

But I'm sure that logic doesn't work in theological circles, only the real world.

[Neon Genesis]

For instance, I love to fish and the other day I was able to go out and catch a few fish down at the lake. When I got home and started preparing the fish for my wife and I to eat I was amazed at how intricate the bone-structure of that little fish was. I logically could not conclude any other explanation for such a sight other than that it must have been perfectly designed that way.

So if complexity requires a creator, then what created the creator? The bible says that God's ways are mysterious and are above our understanding, hence God is too complex for us to comprehend. Thus, if God is complex, then he must have had a creator, so who created God? Even if we assume that complexity proves the existence of a creator, why does that prove that the Christian God is the creator? How do you know it's not Allah, or Zeus? How do you know this God is a personal God that interacts with humanity and is not some sort of impersonal deist-type God?

 

Before you go and blast me with evolution, I do understand it, and I have always had a harder time logically comprehending the theory than believing in the designing of creation by an intelligent being.

If evolution is too complex for you to comprehend, does that mean God created evolution and so we don't need a literal interpretation of the bible to explain our origins?

[MathGeek]

Most people will believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts and their truth values.