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Goodbye Jesus

A Christian Nation Is Not A Utopia


Neon Genesis

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Why do Christians who want to turn American into a Christian theocracy always assume that if America becomes a "Christian nation", then the American government will undoubtedly support whatever flavor of Christianity they belong to? Don't they realize that if they allow religion to be injected into politics and give special rights to Christians over everyone else, that they could just as easily then discriminate against their flavor of Christianity if it disagrees with the government's? What I mean is, let's imagine for a minute that a Baptist preacher becomes president and manages to turn America into an official "Christian nation." Xtians are at first happy with this and think everything is going to turn out great and America will now become a literal heaven on Earth. But what if the government suddenly decided that all Christians who are not Baptists are not "real" Christians and so should not be treated as citizens and given equal rights as Baptists? You know that this would piss off Christians everywhere who are not Baptists, but suddenly it's ok for Christianity in general to do this thing to everyone else, yet Christians are so short-sighted that they don't stop and think about what sort of problems a Christian theocracy could lead to. You see this all the time even nowadays with the current election. You see Republican candidates pining for a Christian theocracy and democratic Christian candidates refusing to separate their faith from their politics when it's convenient for them but both opposing sides have completely different opinions of what xtian values are. Practically 99% of all xtians think they're the "true" xtians and everyone else is false, so I don't get why xtians think a xtian nation would automatically represent what true xtianity is in their mind.

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This is why agenda-driven politics is dangerous, period.

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They do not read their history books with an unclouded perspective. Europe was a theocratic entity for several centuries, all loyal to the Catholic Church. Oh those were the days...barf.

 

Still this idea of "Christian Utopia" seems to cycle through the American psyche every few decades. Indeed in the 19th century there were settlements dedicated to this idea, some were even commune structures. They did not last long, however. Usually internal bickering broke up the group.

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The most corrupt 'utopia' is the most religiously morally regulated.

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I really think it's a bit far fetched that this could ever happen, and if it was ever attempted the bastard would probably be impeached or assassinated in the blink of an eye. Yeah, Christians are a bit stubborn and sometimes stuck up about their religion but I do believe the majority of them have common sense enough to know that isn't what the country needs or should aspire to be. Just because we don't agree with their beliefs doesn't mean their a bunch of mindless morons running around with they're heads in they're asses... just a few of them :)

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The xtians would go nuts, no matter what the denomination and claim it is god's will that they can piss on the rest of us. All they need to make it happen are too many apathetic voters who are not xtian not to vote if this ever came up for a vote. You snooze, you lose.

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Revolt in 2100, RAH

 

The Master has already spoken of this potential problem.

 

Buy your toys now while you still can.

 

You are now considered warned.

 

 

kFL

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The xtians would go nuts, no matter what the denomination and claim it is god's will that they can piss on the rest of us. All they need to make it happen are too many apathetic voters who are not xtian not to vote if this ever came up for a vote. You snooze, you lose.

 

One denomination would have to merge with some and wipe out others, but this a minor problem as long as you have one intelligent leader who knows how to play the game.

 

You need more then a popular vote to create a theocratic state. They would need an army of zealots, and control over weapons of mass-destruction (nukes, ect.). More importantly they would need complete control over the use of the internet, which no state on this planet has.

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Guest Net Eng
More importantly they would need complete control over the use of the internet, which no state on this planet has.

 

Not entirely true. The Internet can be filtered and contained (China does a pretty good job of it). That is, of course, you can get the geeks to play along.

 

As far as this geek is concerned viva la resistance!!

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So, I am listening to the 'Chalcedon Podcast' right now, an episode called 'Christian Misconstruction'.

 

Strange stuff, basically ranting and raving about how the federal government has become too bloated and how it is impinging the personal freedoms of everybody and he outright accused megachurches of being mini welfare states. Also, Christian reconstruction supposedly advocates a sort of 'biblical libertarianism', where the individual is sovereign among all others and only subject to the God of the Bible. Apparently, the biblical reconstructionists/dominionists want a world free of statism, both secular and anything else.

 

I don't know how to link the podcast, but if you have ITunes, type 'Chalcedon Podcast' into the search bar and look for it from there. It is at the very bottom of the episode list.

 

It may make your stomach turn.

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Not entirely true. The Internet can be filtered and contained (China does a pretty good job of it). That is, of course, you can get the geeks to play along.

 

 

Filtering the internet is an option, but I do not see a dogmatic leader (which one would need to create this theoretical Christian utopia) being satisfied with this. They would need to 'purify' it somehow. I suppose they could control who owned this technology and then use a filtering system to sustain such a government.

 

As far as this geek is concerned viva la resistance!!

 

:lmao:

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They do not read their history books with an unclouded perspective. Europe was a theocratic entity for several centuries, all loyal to the Catholic Church. Oh those were the days...barf.

 

Still this idea of "Christian Utopia" seems to cycle through the American psyche every few decades. Indeed in the 19th century there were settlements dedicated to this idea, some were even commune structures. They did not last long, however. Usually internal bickering broke up the group.

Critically examined, the fundamentalist/evangelical idea of a "christian utopia" would be, literally, hell raised to the earth level.

 

Pity they cannot fathom that. You cannot bring the idealized notion of "heaven" down to this level...and, BTW, there's no evidence of such a realm as heaven to begin with.

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"Heaven" isn't a proven place, but it is a powerful idea amongst the Christian sects. A place without suffering, like Amitaba's paradise, but without the work towards enlightenment. Until they realize that 'heaven,' a state without suffering is not possible in the physical world, the cycle of utopians will continue.

 

Now, if we could all gather around, sit down, breathe deeply, and let out three big oms. :) We might get a little closer to that utopia, one individual at a time.

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Without going into the catholic church's abuses of its power in the european theocracy of the past lets look at what happens when we mix religion with politics in the United States: Click Here and there is what happened last time we had a good xtian in charge of the U.S.

Why is there this perpetual myth that being xtian automatically makes someone honest and reliable?

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Guest Zenobia
Revolt in 2100, RAH

 

The Master has already spoken of this potential problem.

 

Buy your toys now while you still can.

 

You are now considered warned.

 

 

kFL

 

You read HEINLEIN???? *MWAH* I LOVE YOU!

 

Heinlein's books helped me get through Christinsanity! Especially "Stranger in a Strange Land." Once, in the religious college we went to, one of my "Professors" (unacredited college - but they were trying to get their PHD's so they could get accreditation, long story) asked me how I learned to write so well (I was always the best writer in the few mass-communications classes I was allowed to attend). I told him that I like reading science fiction because sci-fi authors write really well. Especially Heinlein. He asked "Who is Heinlein?" LOL.... I wonder if he ever tried to read one of Heinlein's books... bwahahaha

 

Have you ever read John Varley? He is kind of a modern Heinlein, really excellent writer. Read the "Gaia Trilogy" (Titan, Wizard, Demon) for starters if you aren't familiar with Varley. http://www.varley.net/

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Guest Zenobia
Without going into the catholic church's abuses of its power in the european theocracy of the past lets look at what happens when we mix religion with politics in the United States: Click Here and there is what happened last time we had a good xtian in charge of the U.S.

Why is there this perpetual myth that being xtian automatically makes someone honest and reliable?

 

Yes and here is another example of a "good Christian Leader."

 

More references:

http://www.theturning.org/folder/nazis.html

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

http://www.aryan-nations.org/

 

As a reporter, I have done interviews with the delightful Aryan Nations people on many an occasion, and I was always sure to wear my "Star of David" proudly around my neck. They are extreme religious zealots and they believe the Babble tells them to be who they are!! That's where they get all their racist, hateful ideas. One of their little SS Uniformed guys once told me, "The Bible is written for White People." These guys would just LOVE to get control of the whitehouse... then we could revive Hitler's little "UTOPIA." Yes, he dreamed of a "Christian Utopia" too...

 

SIEG HEIL EVERYONE...

 

Edited to include this site:

 

http://www.comicbookreligion.com/index.php...tian%20Identity

 

I wouldn't want to leave out the Ku Klux Klan and "Christian Identity" movement... they have some ideas about a Christian "utopia" too!

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Zen,

 

IF I had a god, RAH would be his Prophet, the One whose clarion call I would obey....

 

Lazaus and Libbie Long would be the Way, Truth, the Light!

 

Already have "Pixel" residing in House.

 

And there are enough Anti-Scudder devices to take care of a lotta trash here..

 

Yeah, I want to go on the mission to find and retrieve Mycroft.

 

kL

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Guest Zenobia
Zen,

 

IF I had a god, RAH would be his Prophet, the One whose clarion call I would obey....

 

Lazaus and Libbie Long would be the Way, Truth, the Light!

 

Already have "Pixel" residing in House.

 

And there are enough Anti-Scudder devices to take care of a lotta trash here..

 

Yeah, I want to go on the mission to find and retrieve Mycroft.

 

kL

 

 

LOL Skip... I must confess I'm not sure what all you just said LOL...

 

Did you mean this RAH? http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RAH

This Rah? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rah

Or this Rah? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

Or this one? http://www.fruitofthenile.com/ra.htm

 

LOL... well not sure I would worship the same gods as you, unless they like cats, would make sushi the national food, and legalize marijuana :)

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Robert Anson Heinlein... :)

 

kFL

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