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Goodbye Jesus

Something Scary This Way Comes


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Astreja's recently pinned rant about ex-C's making it clear that we are NOT potential RE-C's or just on-hold-C's got me thinking.


Many christians (esp. fundies) seem to have an almost pathological inability to process the concept that there are people whose personal convictions have led them to REJECT christianity in all its forms. It seems that these people CANNOT understand how a person could not only disbelieve, but actively, purposefully and publicly (at least on here) state that they DO NOT BELIEVE.


I think it's because christian doctrine is designed so as to keep people in a constant state of beggarhood. "You're a sinner". "You'll never be good enough to win the favor of the almighty". "None of us really commit to the Lard like we should... let's come forward and pray over each other". Over and over again, people who claim to be adherents to the christian faith are reminded that they are not supposed to think for themselves.


But you know what amazes me even more? I know some have made these and similar observations before, but what really gets me is the disconnect between the average christian's statements and their actual deeds/lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of christians who do good things out of an imagined love for their chosen deity, but as a rule, christians do not live with the same courage of their convictions that others (like many members here) have.


I think there are a lot of christians who come here because, for lack of a better term, it gets them off in some way to put up their feeble arguments and watch them get shredded. It's like the women in those cheap romance novels... they only protest long enough for Fabio to get across the room, then it's bodice-ripping time!


Maybe some of the christians really like to be voyeuristic. Maybe they really like coming in here and shouting a little dogma and watching the intellects among us do their thing. A lot of these 'believers' probably struggle with hating much of what passes for evanjellyfish christ-itis. They wish they could rage freely and openly... they can't, so they peep through these windows for a glance at how the 'other half' lives.


After all, if the average christian really did have the same rock-solid convictions as many ex-c's out here, the poverty, racism, genocide and other human failures in the world these days would be swept away in a tide of christian altruism and peace-making the likes of which have never been seen and would probably turn many people to 'the faith'.


Alas, my friends... it is, sadly, not to be. I guess it's up to us to give the christians their real ambition in life... jerking off to the fantasy that they might one day have the courage to be like us, instead of pretending it's supposed to be the other way around.

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I like the sentiments you have put forth here, L.B. They have my brain wanting more.


I have been studying up on the work of RJ Rushdoony and Christian reconstructionism (mostly through podcast) and I came across an interesting point. The Christian philosopher Cornelius Van Til summed up basically what it is philosophically meant to be a Christian. The dichotomy he used was one of "Theonomy vs. Autonomy". If one is theonomous, then that person has the God of Christianity guiding that individual in decisions of ethics since it is believed that the God of Christianity is the source of all ethics. The autonomous individual makes their ethical decisions based on whatever moral precepts are popular is in the world at that moment, which is another commonly spotted philosophical smoke screen. I find this theo-philosophical pitfall to be exactly that. If a person was going to be theonomous, how can that person truly be free? The whole point of Christianity is for the world to bow down before the cross of Christ and that means at some point, if the Christian convictions are strong enough, then that person must violate your individual liberty to ensure the Christian worldview is espoused. The Christian witness is really the foot soldier in the fight for a world based strictly on Biblical law. Since humanity is a flawed species to start with, how can a group really hold itself together when the factions can't seem to agree on how the secular law should be interpreted, let alone Biblical law?


Sorry if this little rant has nothing to do whatsoever the context of the OP.

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MG, I have done a little online reading of people like Rushdoony and his ilk. You're actually very correct when you say that eventually, people's personal liberties would have to be violated in the name of conformity to christian dominionism. It's frightening, really, but when you ask whose version of the 'rules' they would follow, the only answer is that the dominionist will only follow someone who believes dominionism MORE than they do! Think about it... it's the reason why people go to christian churches anway! There's someone (usu. a pastor) who seems to believe the christian BS more passionately than the pew-siiter does, so the pew-sitter goes and lets the leaders of the church do their REAL caring and believing and shouting for them. Of course, there are some people who take it upon themselves to be overzealous, but most christians just get off on the vicarious thrill of watching a figurehead be all exaggerated and fired-up FOR them.


christian reconstructionism (or dominionism, which term I prefer) is basically just that cycle over again. I want there to be a christian nation, ergo, I align myself with those leaders who will spout theocratic rhetoric very loudly and boldly. The more I support them, the louder they get, even though none of the so-called utopian change to society ever actually gets realized. It's a pseudo-intellectual circle-jerk.

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It's easy for those out of the loop to forget how much 'suffering' and being 'persecuted' is put up on a pedestal in Christian faith.


In their view, the more people who hate, make fun of, or ridicule their faith, the stronger and more powerful it becomes to them. Their belief in the face of adversity, and 'getting through difficult times' is what drives them.


Don't forget, it used to be commonplace to beat yourself for your sins as an act of penance.


Christians don't like being happy and accepted, they're saving it for when they die, so it will last forever.


Sometimes if they are accepted where they are, they will often go and find somewhere where they can feel this way. It's called being a Missionary, or witnessing.


Christians who go out in public to witness, expect to be not welcome, and put up with being humiliated by shouting their beliefs out loud. They are looking for someone to disagree with them, and try and force them away.


They don't understand that people don't care what they believe, and most people are annoyed at them for being a public annoyance, rather than having anything against their particular faith.


The conversion of others, through showing their own humility and submissiveness. It's supposed to impress us, so we drop our lives and go with them to suffer for god.

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Y'know, Darth, I don't think people really understand that 'witnessing' is at least one place where 'the rubber meets the road' (a really important, fundamental issue, for those unfamiliar with the phrase). When the christian reads the bible, he reads tales of people supernaturally empowered to go and not only preach, but work all kinds of miraculous signs. All this is because the fabled UberGhostie is indwelling them.


I guess what they fail (or refuse) to realize (or admit) is that since their ghostie is imaginary, so is their power to do anything but bother people. They put up really pathetic arguments that wouldn't hold water against anyone with a community-college level education in history or religion.


They can't imagine anyone being safe and sane enough to live life NOT being "led" by the mysterious and oh-so-ethereal ghostie. They also can't imagine that they're not being led by anything except their own phobias.

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