Full Of Doubt

[jdog]

and really tired.

 

I got saved years ago, it has been a long journey. Now I can't seem to think clearly anymore. I have been going through tremendous anxiety and depression, I was thinking suicidal thoughts a while ago, I am currently on meds to help. I believe this religion is a kind of brain washing. I was thinking along these lines before searching the internet and then came across this site. Many of the testimonies here ring a bell with me and I believe I am heading down that same road of just leaving Christianity. I am at the stage right now that I am afraid and confused. I tried to hint to my husband that I am having doubts, but am afraid of a full discussion about this, I think it may cause division between us and some friends.

 

I know if I talk with anyone else they are going to fill my head up with 'the enemy is telling you lies' and 'it's satan's plan to keep you away from God'

I keep thinking that I am one of the 'ones' that 'will fall away' from the faith, quoted somewhere in the bible. and I am afraid of the consequences, that is if it is true. It's like if the Christian story is true and I am actually saved from something called hell. then would it matter if I stopped believing or not. Because the bible says that no on can snatch us (his children) out of his hand. If God exists and I am one of his children then i am his no matter what.

You see how confused I am? And the reason why I am drifting away is not because I want to go back into the world and 'sin', I have no desire to go back to my old ways, but I am sure that is what Christians would say.

 

I am also avoiding a Christian friend like crazy, because she just throws scripture at me all the time and drives me nuts. I told her I was feeling depressed and down about things, and basically I got hurt by her response, she said that I just need to focus on God and the bible. She keeps phoning me and leaving messages on my machine and she can't say one sentence without talking about yaweh or yeshua.

 

I mentioned my doubt to someone else and they said 'we all struggle at one time or other in our walk with the Lord'

I just don't understand why it is a struggle, where is the joy in it? It's like all I have to do is believe, that all this is based on belief and to increase the belief I must keep reading my bible. I am too tired to seek someone who may not even be real. The church I attend really drives home the importance of reading the bible, that the word is the way God teaches us. the church is always focusing on the importance of being a 'doer of the word' aswell and if we aren't doing, then we need to get doing things for the Lord.

 

I also noticed that nearly all the children at the church we attend, are home schooled. We send our son to a regular public school amongst the 'wicked' and 'evil'. I just have been seeing how many of these kids are being sheltered from the real world. This one teenage girl who is home schooled loves basketball, but her parents are making her do other things and are literally molding her to serve in the ministry and i don't think she really wants to.

 

I am more confused and down about life than I think I have ever been. I am also not understanding the whole predestination thing, if we are chosen, then what does it matter if we pray for someone elses salvation or not? God has already knows who is going to come to him or not.

I can't seem to enjoy life with this knowledge that I am walking among people who may be going to hell, my family members are not believers, so they are all going to go to hell, if they don't choose? What about my family members who have passed on already?

 

I am constantly feeling guilty about things and confessing and repenting from sin, I am feeling guilty writing all this down right now, but it just seems that I need to get it off my chest and write all my thoughts down before I go mad. I have no one to talk to.

 

Thanks for letting me say this

[Astreja]

Reworking one's beliefs is scary, and telling believing friends and family is often risky business. But feel free to talk to us, Jdog. We're a nice, rowdy bunch with a lot of different experiences and viewpoints.

 

(offers plate of cookies) And welcome!

[bellsybop]

My heart goes out to you. Almost every single person in this site has probably gone through the same type of issues that you are having. So if you feel you are alone in this process, think again.

We are here as sounding boards.. use your time wisely and read so much of what others are going through, or have already been through.

There isn't much another person can give you as far as advice, because the decision of where you go from here comes strictly from within yourself.

But just remember, we are here for you.. wherever you journey takes you.

[Guest LoveAll]

Greetings,

Perhaps the most difficult thing in life is coming to the realization that you must "lose" your life to find it. If you cling to a ready made, pre-fab, one-size-fits-all dogma, guess what? You will never know true joy, never really be happy. Living an authentic life is not easy, no safe, pat answers, no guarantees.

To paraphrase a rather smart fellow: To your own self be true, and then as surely as night follows day, you can never be false to anyone else, including yourself!

It's about learning to trust yourself, recognize you put yourself in this hole, (with some help!), only you can get out of it.

[Vigile]

I am constantly feeling guilty about things and confessing and repenting from sin, I am feeling guilty writing all this down right now, but it just seems that I need to get it off my chest and write all my thoughts down before I go mad. I have no one to talk to.

 

Oh man, I could have written this exact statement years ago when I was in your shoes. Is your church Nazarene by any chance?

 

Let us know some specific areas that you have questions about and we will be happy to discuss them with you. You will find no judgement here, just patience and understanding. I sincerely hope you find some peace soon.

 

Ps, I just wanted to add, based on the bolded part of the quote above, that even though you have been made to feel as if you are somehow damaged goods that just can never acheive sanctification, whatever that means, you are really just a human being like the rest of us. By human being, I don't mean someone who is frail and wraught with sin. Christianity teaches that you are unworthy and while they say that only by god's grace can you be acceptable, the reality of what they are saying is that you are so unacceptable that you must be covered in the blood of Jesus in order for god to withstand your presence. You may not be ready for this yet, but from my perspective this is an awful way to have to look at one's self. It's truly degrading to the self esteem.

 

I just don't see this as a positive paradigm with which to view one's self. And considering the struggles you are going through, I think you are starting to come to that realization yourself.

 

I to spent the better part of the first half of my life condemning myself for every little thing; analyzing my every thought and struggling with my every natural urge. It was horrible. I felt so guilty all the time. Even after I would repent with strong emotion and with honest intentions, I still found that I would not/could not change.

 

The bible says that peace is found in christ, but I truly experienced none that was lasting as I always had to contend with the fact that reality just didn't mesh with the bible, which gave cause to condemn my very humanity. I was so shocked when I finally found real peace by the realization that the guilting that the bible and the church exposes one to is nothing more than a way to keep you in line, dependent, and scared.

 

I'm not talking about letting go of morality. I still have that and I feel I now live by a moral code that is much more peaceful, considers others more, and that is much more healthy.

 

Not knowing exactly where you are at, I can imagine that these statements of mine probably give you cause for fear given your indoctrination. If so, I apologize. Like I said, we can talk this out and examine the facts, look at logic, and explore this with you. We all realize just how tough it is to be where you are at.

 

Best wishes,

 

Don

[MathGeek]

Welcome, jdog.

 

Hope you feel welcome.

[Robbobrob]

I have two quotes for you, from two different religious points of view:

 

"When in doubt, fuck it. When not in doubt, GET IN DOUBT."

 

"Revel in your guilt."

[Mysteries' Child]

jdog--

 

*hug*

 

Hang in there. You are in a scary position right now; questioning and redefining your reality is not an easy thing. Don't give up; it gets better. I promise.

 

I'll give a better response later, maybe tonight. Right now I gotta go get my kid off the bus.

 

For now, just know that the world is full of ExC's who questioned, and left, and didn't fall apart, and aren't going to burn in Hell.

 

Some of us (!!!HI!!!) finally FOUND God after we stopped being told to worship a given dogma.

[Odin]

I am constantly feeling guilty about things and confessing and repenting from sin, I am feeling guilty writing all this down right now, but it just seems that I need to get it off my chest and write all my thoughts down before I go mad.

 

During my time as a Christian, I did the same thing. It drove me completely nuts.

 

I can't seem to enjoy life with this knowledge that I am walking among people who may be going to hell, my family members are not believers, so they are all going to go to hell, if they don't choose? What about my family members who have passed on already?

 

The whole "hell" thing is mistranslated in the King James version and most other versions of the Bible. Surely, it's for total control of the masses.

 

The Hebrew words Gehenna(גהינו×) and Sheol(ש×ול) are both translated "Hell".

 

Sheol means the grave or the underworld, where the dead sleep.

 

Gehenna is a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem, (a.k.a. "Valley of Hinnom") where garbage is burned. Bodies of executed criminals are cast there as well, for the worms to chew on them. The whole unquenchable fire thing is actually the garbage dump fires, that burn constantly. The "worms never die" because they get a steady supply of organic garbage to eat.

 

If the Bible wasn't mistranslated, it would save Christians a lot of pain and fear.

 

All this talk of punishment for not believing is such none sense.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pO9N3T5fZoQ

(More information about the mistranslation fiasco from an educated Christian institution)

 

 

And relax, it's common with ex-Christians to feel kind of confused and maybe even depressed. I, myself, am still traumatized by this dogma.

[mick]

Hey Jbot,

 

Wow. Alot of what you say here mirror things for me very closely. I was "saved" and a Christian for 17 years, but completely allowed myself to publicly deconvert 3 years ago. I think I was were you are at for like 4 years prior to that time. I am also married. My wife is very fundamentalist and it makes for an interesting marriage. How "Christian" is your husband?

 

I often compare the whole to thing to Neo being awoken from the Matrix, in the movie The Matrix. Once you take the pill, and look at reality for what it really is, there is no turning back. You will never find peace in Christianity if you do not easily find it there already. There are many kinds of Christians, but there are 2 particular types that I have thought alot about. Some Christians are as happy people as you will ever find. It doesn't bother them one bit that someone is going to Hell, etc. Then there are people like you who find themselves Christian somehow, but never are able to be happy because none of it makes sense, ESPECIALLY the part about all these people going to Hell, etc. You mention the contradictions that exist like "predestination" verses "sharing your faith". I had that "what's the point" thought that you described, many many times myself.

 

It's a process. The best part for me is that I have lost all fear of having rejected Christianity. I was terrorfied at first, but I can truly say that I fear him no more than Santa Clause, Zeus, or the Easter bunny at this point. I am so much happier knowing the truth, but also admitting and proclaiming that I do not believe. Being open about it was the way for me to heal it. When I knew it was bullshit, I came out of the closet big time. Not all people are in a position where they can do that easily, but it was the right path for me.

 

Mick

 

and really tired.

 

I got saved years ago, it has been a long journey. Now I can't seem to think clearly anymore. I have been going through tremendous anxiety and depression, I was thinking suicidal thoughts a while ago, I am currently on meds to help. I believe this religion is a kind of brain washing. I was thinking along these lines before searching the internet and then came across this site. Many of the testimonies here ring a bell with me and I believe I am heading down that same road of just leaving Christianity. I am at the stage right now that I am afraid and confused. I tried to hint to my husband that I am having doubts, but am afraid of a full discussion about this, I think it may cause division between us and some friends.

 

I know if I talk with anyone else they are going to fill my head up with 'the enemy is telling you lies' and 'it's satan's plan to keep you away from God'

I keep thinking that I am one of the 'ones' that 'will fall away' from the faith, quoted somewhere in the bible. and I am afraid of the consequences, that is if it is true. It's like if the Christian story is true and I am actually saved from something called hell. then would it matter if I stopped believing or not. Because the bible says that no on can snatch us (his children) out of his hand. If God exists and I am one of his children then i am his no matter what.

You see how confused I am? And the reason why I am drifting away is not because I want to go back into the world and 'sin', I have no desire to go back to my old ways, but I am sure that is what Christians would say.

 

I am also avoiding a Christian friend like crazy, because she just throws scripture at me all the time and drives me nuts. I told her I was feeling depressed and down about things, and basically I got hurt by her response, she said that I just need to focus on God and the bible. She keeps phoning me and leaving messages on my machine and she can't say one sentence without talking about yaweh or yeshua.

 

I mentioned my doubt to someone else and they said 'we all struggle at one time or other in our walk with the Lord'

I just don't understand why it is a struggle, where is the joy in it? It's like all I have to do is believe, that all this is based on belief and to increase the belief I must keep reading my bible. I am too tired to seek someone who may not even be real. The church I attend really drives home the importance of reading the bible, that the word is the way God teaches us. the church is always focusing on the importance of being a 'doer of the word' aswell and if we aren't doing, then we need to get doing things for the Lord.

 

I also noticed that nearly all the children at the church we attend, are home schooled. We send our son to a regular public school amongst the 'wicked' and 'evil'. I just have been seeing how many of these kids are being sheltered from the real world. This one teenage girl who is home schooled loves basketball, but her parents are making her do other things and are literally molding her to serve in the ministry and i don't think she really wants to.

 

I am more confused and down about life than I think I have ever been. I am also not understanding the whole predestination thing, if we are chosen, then what does it matter if we pray for someone elses salvation or not? God has already knows who is going to come to him or not.

I can't seem to enjoy life with this knowledge that I am walking among people who may be going to hell, my family members are not believers, so they are all going to go to hell, if they don't choose? What about my family members who have passed on already?

 

I am constantly feeling guilty about things and confessing and repenting from sin, I am feeling guilty writing all this down right now, but it just seems that I need to get it off my chest and write all my thoughts down before I go mad. I have no one to talk to.

 

Thanks for letting me say this

[florduh]

Welcome. You are not alone anymore.

 

Try to realize that Christianity is a cult belief that screws with your mind and self esteem. It is usually perpetrated be well-meaning people who don't know any better, and have doubts of their own that they try to hide from themselves.

 

It always gets better, so enjoy the conversations here. It will help the healing.

 

All the best,

 

- Chris

[jdog]

Thank you all so much, you are so very kind.

 

Today was interesting, and a little better, I feel like what I have read here in the forums that I have to 'de-programme' my thinking.

 

I put my bibles away, I can't even look at them. I felt physically sick. I don't have the nerve to throw them out, but they are out of sight.

 

I talked to my husband, he is really cool about it, and he isn't as heavily into the religion as I was anyway. He still has his mind in tact. I told him that for my sanity I can no longer go to church. I think basically he will follow suit.

 

So you said I can ask questions.

 

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

[Deva]

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

 

 

Welcome to the boards jdog!

 

Evil is real in the sense that it exists in the minds of human beings. Evil as a supernatural force? I don't see the evidence. Christianity has evil personified as the devil and "sin" as some kind of force that wrecked God's universe which supposedly at one time was "perfect". The fossil record shows that life has always preyed on life and there is no evidence whatsoever for this fictitious perfect world as depicted in the Bible.

 

One of the really negative things about Christianity is it forces you to see everything in the world as evil in some sense because Satan is depicted as the ruler of a fallen world.

[florduh]

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

 

 

Good and evil are relative terms. The "good" is anything that contributes to the success of our species, and "bad" is whatever impedes our growth and survival chances.

 

Today slavery is considered evil by most of the world, but that was not always so. Societies determine the definitions over time.

 

- Chris

[jdog]

hey thanks, you guys are helping alot. In fact you are reminding me of things that I use to think 20 + years ago. This whole website is great. I feel really comfortable here already.

 

Is this thread ok for me to say what I am thinking and feeling and what I am realizing etc...or do I need to post somewhere else?

 

You see things are coming up in my mind and i am like 'seeing' it for what it truly is. Like for instance I read about the Christian meme, that christianity is like a mind virus. Wow, it really is. I was a little girl when I first heard about Jesus, so there is where the seed was planted. then on and off through life heard more things, until I totally 'surrendered all'. Well I really did surrender because I began to not be able be myself anymore, I was told that feelings and emotions are not to be trusted because we can deceive ourselves and only the inspired word of god, bible is truth, then i started to spread the virus by witnessing and preaching, to other folk, my family, friends, my own sons no less, and really my behaviour was fear induced, nothing else.

 

None of my family or my close friends took the bait, they think I have been brainwashed. Thankfully, my sons are not deep in and basically all what they have heard alot has come from me, and they have always been 'rebellious' free thinkers. and so now i know if i stop spouting this garbage, i will hope if any damage i have caused can soon be erradicated. I told my son yesterday that i will not be making him go to church anymore. he is nearly 17, he just smiled and seemed very relieved.

 

I am trying to kick start how I use to be when I was young, you know when I did think for myself like my sons age.

 

Today I thought about how this 'virus' is spread, christians are told to go out out into all the nations and tell the good news, well I was thinking about these remote tribes and folks who are living their lives as they have always known it, and then a missionary goes and tells them about christ and how they need to be 'saved'. It probably screws their whole life up.

 

I have realised how much i have been living in fear, fear that I haven't been 'doing' enough, praying enough, worshiping enough, feeling guilty if I listen to a secular song on the radio because it didn't glorify god, fearful that i haven't been kind enough, generous enough, patient enough, feeling guilty for being angry or for being judgemental or for thinking anything that does not 'glorify god' or is 'pleasing' to him.

 

I have started listening to the rock station, I started laughing because it was like 'hey I really like this song, I remember this'

 

I think that I am done and have checked out of christianity. i believe there is a god, i believe jesus existed. anything beyond that I no longer want to follow.

[xequar]

hey thanks, you guys are helping alot. In fact you are reminding me of things that I use to think 20 + years ago.

In my deconversion process and ongoing healing process, I've come to suspect that we as individuals might have some set of... "innate" beliefs about how the Universe works, nothing at all resembling a religion or anything like that, but just some sort of hunches, if you will. I also suspect that in order to accept Xianity, we have to overwrite these innate beliefs, much to the detriment of our own selves.

 

Of course, I would never make such an assertion and expect it to withstand any amount of criticism at all. That's more hairbrained ramblings on my own part than anything else.

 

At the very least, I found myself thinking similarly as I deconverted, recalling various instances even at the height of my Xianity where I basically overwrote the belief that came naturally with the poison of Xianity.

 

You see things are coming up in my mind and i am like 'seeing' it for what it truly is. Like for instance I read about the Christian meme, that christianity is like a mind virus. Wow, it really is. I was a little girl when I first heard about Jesus, so there is where the seed was planted. then on and off through life heard more things, until I totally 'surrendered all'. Well I really did surrender because I began to not be able be myself anymore, I was told that feelings and emotions are not to be trusted because we can deceive ourselves and only the inspired word of god, bible is truth, then i started to spread the virus by witnessing and preaching, to other folk, my family, friends, my own sons no less, and really my behaviour was fear induced, nothing else.

I think this is the first time I've heard it referred to as a virus, and it fits very very well. I also refer to Xianity as the ultimate abusive relationship. At first, it seems so attractive and friendly, and the relationship goes really well for awhile. Then suddenly, without realizing it, you've somehow done something wrong and you're getting yelled at and you feel really bad, but then it apologizes and tells you it loves you and it just had a bad day. Everything seems fine, but slowly it tells you that you're listening to the wrong music and watching the wrong shows, that you're not supposed to talk like that, that you're hanging around with bad people and that even your friends really hate you. It tells you that it loves you and that it's the only thing that loves you, and by that point, you're so broken that you believe it when it tells you that without it, you'll be nothing. And so the cycle continues, where breaking free becomes ever more difficult, but ever more necessary not only for your own comfort, but your very well-being and existence. And once you're free, it's wonderful!

 

I think that I am done and have checked out of christianity. i believe there is a god, i believe jesus existed. anything beyond that I no longer want to follow.

Good for you! I've only been here a very short time, but I'm already realizing there are some good and supportive people here, and I hope for the best for you!

[jdog]

So this afternoon I had a little meltdown, and verbally admitted to my son who is 17 and is a smart, smart kid, that I no longer believe the bible to be true and I no longer believe in the christian god. I said i think it is a load of crap. he said he didn't care and had questioned the bible anyhow. Told you he was smart!!!!!

 

I don't know I suppose I had to tell someone who i consider to be safe and my son is a thinker and we have had some good talks. I apologised to him for all the crap that I have spewed out to him and encouraged him to think and to research things himself, instead of just accepting what i or anyone else says. I just feel like I needed to make amends somewhere you know. mothers and fathers have such an influence on their kids, and they hear us talk about things and see us do things so then surely it must be ok right? ya know? Not so.

 

Anyhow I announce I am an ex christian and that is my final answer....lol

 

I got so mad earlier on, just swearing and cussing and it felt really good by the way....ha ha...I was mad about all this time i have been wasting and all the shit i have been believing and spreading to others aswell. hopefully they will throw those bible tracts away and think for themselves.

I just threw out a load of bible tracts, tapes and cds, also scripture things around my home. I just don't want to see or hear any of it.

It's like I am just as passionate about ridding me of this stuff as I was accepting it, like i have come full circle. I think I read that somewhere else in someones testimony and I totally can relate to it.

 

I am also feeling a bit lost like 'what now'? 'what's next?' then I started thinking about all the christian holidays and such, i know that is a ways to go yet, but these are things that are coming to mind. I also have some upcoming social things i agreed to do and it's with other christians and i think i am going to have to cancel. Today i went to a function that i agreed to go to, and it was all christian ladies there. I felt like i wanted to run out of the house.

It is weired how i am seeing everything back to front, topsy turvy. that the feeling i was having when in the room with the believers, was strong to want to get away was exactly the same as when I was a believer and wanted to avoid 'wordly' people.

 

Anyhow I feel like I have a long way to go, because it has been up and down today emotionally, anger, worry and still that damn fear of what if I am wrong, then back to i am going to be fine.

 

I really appreciate the support here. I have been looking around the site and reading the different posts and finding it so interesting and some of you guys are funny and have a good sense of humour, it is funny that I have been able to laugh at some of the jokes and not feel that I need to apologise to 'god'

[Guest Net Eng]

I don't know I suppose I had to tell someone who i consider to be safe and my son is a thinker and we have had some good talks. I apologised to him for all the crap that I have spewed out to him and encouraged him to think and to research things himself, instead of just accepting what i or anyone else says. I just feel like I needed to make amends somewhere you know. mothers and fathers have such an influence on their kids, and they hear us talk about things and see us do things so then surely it must be ok right? ya know? Not so.

 

Anyhow I announce I am an ex christian and that is my final answer....lol

 

 

Welcome to Ex-C jdog!!!

 

I hope you will find a home here like I have.

 

I'm glad you had that talk with your son. I believe a parent should apologize to their children when they (the parent) make mistakes.

 

Keep us updated. This site is great for venting and getting the jeebus rants out!!

[Crazycatlady]

I apologised to him for all the crap that I have spewed out to him and encouraged him to think and to research things himself, instead of just accepting what i or anyone else says. I just feel like I needed to make amends somewhere you know. mothers and fathers have such an influence on their kids, and they hear us talk about things and see us do things so then surely it must be ok right? ya know? Not so.

 

You sound like a wonderful mother. Your son is very lucky.

 

Anyhow I feel like I have a long way to go, because it has been up and down today emotionally, anger, worry and still that damn fear of what if I am wrong, then back to i am going to be fine.

 

I deconverted over a year ago and I still have moments like that. They do decrease in frequency, though (worry and fear that is, the going to be fine feelings will increase).

[ogilvy]

Thank you all so much, you are so very kind.

 

Today was interesting, and a little better, I feel like what I have read here in the forums that I have to 'de-programme' my thinking.

 

I put my bibles away, I can't even look at them. I felt physically sick. I don't have the nerve to throw them out, but they are out of sight.

 

I talked to my husband, he is really cool about it, and he isn't as heavily into the religion as I was anyway. He still has his mind in tact. I told him that for my sanity I can no longer go to church. I think basically he will follow suit.

 

So you said I can ask questions.

 

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

i'm so glad your husband was understanding and that you feel i bit better. i got the same way about my bible, that i couldnt bear opening it. one thing that struck me about your original post was the depresssion and constant repenting of sins. seems you are a sensitive person, like myself, and relgion can play havoc with a sensitive mind, especially in relation to the concept of hell. theres a form of obsessive compulsive disorder called 'scrupulosity', where the person is over-scrupulous about keeping the rules of religion. it gets hard to tell the difference between spirituality and over-scrupulosity. there are yahoo groups dealing with it.

if you wish to leave christianity altogether, that's one thing. but if you still believe in the 'nice parts' of it, and dont want to completely reject it, my suggestion is to ....keep it simple. there were times when i couldnt read the bible or pray, it was too overwhelming, but i could still gain comfort from a simple prayer to 'look after me and my loved ones', childish, i know, and listening to some gentle christian music.

some christians believe hell is not as we have been taught to believe, and some branches of christianity believe that everyone who wants to, goes to heaven. i like that idea!

if there is really God, and if you are suffering from depression and confusion, God would know that and make allowance for it. i've even thought that if all children go to heaven, it might be that people with mental issues, i.e. myself, also go to heaven no matter what.

if God is not real, then we dont have to worry about anyone going to hell.

either way you can have peace of mind. all the best

pippa

[Eponymic]

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

 

Evil is a man made construct.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I personally believe there is no good or evil. Yes, in the immediate sense of things, you can construe acts of violence as such. But who is to say that someone murdering a person isn't actually causing something else to be better because of it? Life is very inocuous that way. It's still quite the mystery and I think very few people are willing to admit that supposed evil or sinful acts, can sometimes create very good things to happen.

 

I wouldn't call what we sense, 'sensing evil'. I'd call it recognizing something that we should or shouldn't do because it's in our and other people's best interest. Not as sexy saying it like that, but certainly more accurate.

 

Of course this is all my opinion. Am I going to commit violence or what not because of this point of view? No. But I believe that I should trust my instincts and do what I feel is best for myself and those around me. I'll leave it at that for now.

 

As for the Devil dude. He's a myth, just like any other old mythological figure.

[Vigile]

So evil exists right? I mean there are some people out there that committ evil acts and heinous crimes, we can sense evil, so where does that come from, is it satan, devil or is he or it all man made fictitious crap?

 

Evil is a human concept. That doesn't invalidate the concept, but it certainly doesn't prove the biblical perspective on the matter.

 

Biblically, evil can run the gamut from murder and thievery all the way down to just feeling a little twinge of lust in the mind's eye. Yet, if you examine the old testament, incest was considered the norm during certain phases of biblical history and was not condemned as evil, as was the stoning of idolaters and wives who cheated on their husbands. In fact, eating shell fish was also considered evil.

 

Biblically, the entire concept of good and evil just makes no sense and much of what the bible considers a valid response to what it deems evil, would in reality be evil to us here and now.

 

IMO, morality is a product of realities we all face as we choose to live together in society and it is something that we learn from our interactions with one another all the way from the values our parents instill in us from birth to the influence that our friends, neighbors, teachers, etc... have on our thought processes.

 

The vast majority of people reasonably adopt these values. Some were raised with values that society would deem not good, while still others have experienced psychological trauma that has distorted their views on morality, while still others just are born with bad wiring that makes them sociopathic and depending on the degree of their sociopathism, they may not feel any sort of connection or influence from group values at all.

 

Those with values that don't fit in well with society tend to make problems for others in society and their actions have thus been deemed by society as evil. For all intents and purposes, some can truly be evil, even though, as I said, it's a concept that depends on human perspective of what is good and bad in the first place.

 

This is probably a lot to absorb for you, but I think if you research it and study it, you will find that it is close to accurate. I'm certainly no expert on the subject, so there is plenty of room for disagreement with my views on this matter.

[Vigile]

I am also feeling a bit lost like 'what now'? 'what's next?' then I started thinking about all the christian holidays and such, i know that is a ways to go yet, but these are things that are coming to mind. I also have some upcoming social things i agreed to do and it's with other christians and i think i am going to have to cancel. Today i went to a function that i agreed to go to, and it was all christian ladies there. I felt like i wanted to run out of the house.

It is weired how i am seeing everything back to front, topsy turvy. that the feeling i was having when in the room with the believers, was strong to want to get away was exactly the same as when I was a believer and wanted to avoid 'wordly' people.

 

I think as time goes on you will find that your life isn't really going to change that dramatically. Your thought process will be free and that will be utterly fulfilling, but you will find yourself surprised to discover that those you considered worldly before think, hope, dream, and live just like you. You are no different from the rest of us, barring room for your own unique personality traits. I think you will find it quite freeing to see this.

 

As for holidays and such. Take these things as you need to. For me, I always enjoyed Christmas and I still do. I don't consider it a xian holiday, but just a societal tradition that can be a lot of fun. Unless it brings up bad feelings for you, just go with it and enjoy it to. That's the great thing about your new perspective. Before everything was us vs them. Now it doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to shed all your xian friends and now hang out with only "worldly" friends. They may see you differently, depending on the individual, but you don't have to see them any differently. IOW, you don't need to boomarang into some anti-xian version of reality. Just be you and enjoy your life and your new found peace of mind.

[Mysteries' Child]

So this afternoon I had a little meltdown, and verbally admitted to my son who is 17 and is a smart, smart kid, that I no longer believe the bible to be true and I no longer believe in the christian god. I said i think it is a load of crap. he said he didn't care and had questioned the bible anyhow. Told you he was smart!!!!!

 

I don't know I suppose I had to tell someone who i consider to be safe and my son is a thinker and we have had some good talks. I apologised to him for all the crap that I have spewed out to him and encouraged him to think and to research things himself, instead of just accepting what i or anyone else says. I just feel like I needed to make amends somewhere you know. mothers and fathers have such an influence on their kids, and they hear us talk about things and see us do things so then surely it must be ok right? ya know? Not so.

 

He's got a good momma. Everybody makes mistakes in raising their kids. Especially mistakes we think at the time are "for their own good." The better parents among us see those mistakes, admit them, apologize for them, and learn from them.

 

I got so mad earlier on, just swearing and cussing and it felt really good by the way....ha ha...I was mad about all this time i have been wasting and all the shit i have been believing and spreading to others aswell. hopefully they will throw those bible tracts away and think for themselves.

 

Ah, but it isn't wasted time. As the next few days/weeks/months go by, look at everything you've learned thinking about it. Hey-- life is a learning process. This has a big lesson. It will, I imagine, serve you well for the rest of your days.

 

I just threw out a load of bible tracts, tapes and cds, also scripture things around my home. I just don't want to see or hear any of it.

It's like I am just as passionate about ridding me of this stuff as I was accepting it, like i have come full circle. I think I read that somewhere else in someones testimony and I totally can relate to it.

 

I can dig it being a powerful reaction. Can I make a suggestion you may not like much now?? If you have any thing that you particularly liked, you might want to put it in a box under a bed or in a closet-- somewhere waaaay out of sight, but not out of reach. I went thru a spell, when I finally completely deconverted, of giving away all the Christianoid stuff I'd received in various misguided efforts to 'count your blessings' me out of depression. Most of it, I neither miss nor, frankly, remember...

 

...but there was a small handful of things that I eventually decided I wanted back. They don't mean what they're intended to. They don't mean what they used to. But they mean a great deal to me now.

 

I am also feeling a bit lost like 'what now'? 'what's next?'

 

Now you live your life, intelligently and with a great deal of consideration. You'll figure out what's next, when you get to what's next. I know that sounds really trite-- it did to me, too-- but it's true. If you live in a cognizant manner, a great deal of the time you will find that, when you get to 'what's next,' you will have had just the experiences you need to figure out what's to be done.

 

then I started thinking about all the christian holidays and such, i know that is a ways to go yet, but these are things that are coming to mind.

 

It didn't happen right away, but I found that, after a year or two, I enjoyed them again. Easter's a great time to be glad winter's over. Christmas is a good opportunity to enjoy family and check out the lights. Dig??

 

I also have some upcoming social things i agreed to do and it's with other christians and i think i am going to have to cancel. Today i went to a function that i agreed to go to, and it was all christian ladies there. I felt like i wanted to run out of the house.

 

Getting away from those people, now anyway, is probably a good and necessary thing. There are only so many reactions they can have to your decision; the most likely one I guess is to try to bring you back into the fold. Something you can definitely do without right now.

 

Later on, you may or may not find that some of the friendships can be salvaged. This is very dependent upon the individuals involved, and the attitudes thereof. But worth keeping in mind.

 

It is weired how i am seeing everything back to front, topsy turvy. that the feeling i was having when in the room with the believers, was strong to want to get away was exactly the same as when I was a believer and wanted to avoid 'wordly' people.

 

When you feel ready-- and it may be some time before you do-- you might want to think about that set of reactions. Others' experience is, I am certain, different than mine. But I found that I learned a lot from going back and considering polar reactions like that, once some of the emotions had subsided and I was able to do it more objectively.

 

You don't have to, of course. What really matters is that you have, now, a chance to live a life that you're happier with. Metacognitive lessons like that are, I think, gravy. But gravy can be very useful indeed.

 

Anyhow I feel like I have a long way to go, because it has been up and down today emotionally, anger, worry and still that damn fear of what if I am wrong, then back to i am going to be fine.

 

*hug* This will likely go on for a while. First you get used to it, then it gets less. You'll be all right.

[centauri]

You see things are coming up in my mind and i am like 'seeing' it for what it truly is. Like for instance I read about the Christian meme, that christianity is like a mind virus. Wow, it really is. I was a little girl when I first heard about Jesus, so there is where the seed was planted. then on and off through life heard more things, until I totally 'surrendered all'. Well I really did surrender because I began to not be able be myself anymore, I was told that feelings and emotions are not to be trusted because we can deceive ourselves and only the inspired word of god, bible is truth, then i started to spread the virus by witnessing and preaching, to other folk, my family, friends, my own sons no less, and really my behaviour was fear induced, nothing else.

 

It certainly has the characteristics of a virus.

The main goal is to spread itself and it doesn't really care how that goal is accomplished.

You may have already seen this site:

http://www.christianitymeme.org/

 

Today I thought about how this 'virus' is spread, christians are told to go out out into all the nations and tell the good news, well I was thinking about these remote tribes and folks who are living their lives as they have always known it, and then a missionary goes and tells them about christ and how they need to be 'saved'. It probably screws their whole life up.

I have realised how much i have been living in fear, fear that I haven't been 'doing' enough, praying enough, worshiping enough, feeling guilty if I listen to a secular song on the radio because it didn't glorify god, fearful that i haven't been kind enough, generous enough, patient enough, feeling guilty for being angry or for being judgemental or for thinking anything that does not 'glorify god' or is 'pleasing' to him.

 

Without the fear of hell and the reward of heaven, Christianity wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is.

But all these ideas about "God" and how you should think and behave are acquired beliefs, the baggage given to you by others.

We are all bombarded with various claims about "truth" from the day we are born.

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that we all act like robots to varying degrees.

I've always found the following parable useful when I consider how many people(not just religious), are trying to shove thoughts into my brain on a daily basis, claiming that they represent "reality".

 

COLORFUL PACKAGES by Vernon Howard

 

Student: I am afraid to question my acquired beliefs.

 

Teacher: Don't be afraid to see that you have been cruelly deceived.

A hungry man asked some officials for bread. With many smiles and sympathies they gave him several packages with colorful wrappings, assuring him he would never be hungry again.

On the way home he could feel that the weight of the packages was not right for bread, so opening them, he found stones. Something in you can feel the difference between truth and falsehood, but you must courageously open the packages.

You will then see how easy it is to throw away useless stones.

 

I think that I am done and have checked out of christianity. i believe there is a god, i believe jesus existed. anything beyond that I no longer want to follow.

 

Regarding the question of Jesus existing, this site is packed with information that shakes and bakes the standard dogmatic teachings about Jesus existing.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

 

Personally, while I think a cult leader called "Jesus" could have existed, it means nothing to me beyond historical curiousity.

There are lots of thoughtful people here and many have shared your journey.