XCrispyKFC Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I was looking at a christian forum and came across a few questions that I found to be quite interesting. Even more interesting was the christian response to them...take a gander for yourselves. What do the christians here have to say? "I have absolutely no clue" would probably be your best answer for these. These questions are hypothetical, and may have no answer that is humanly obtainable. It is interesting to think about such things though, so I present them for discussion. 1) If one of your skin cells die, then you are obviously still 'alive'. I'm sure that many people believe that even if your entire body died, with only your brain surviving (and kept on a form of life support), then the 'you' is still alive. Your soul is not yet on its journey into the afterlife, since your brain is fully functional (so I believe). But, the question is: how many of your brain cells have to die before the soul crosses over? Might the soul still be retained in this reality if even a single brain cell is kept alive? I'm sure it's a difficult question. 2) Perhaps some of you have heard of "Multiple Personality Disorder", the condition in which one person seems to manifest two or more individual personalities in the same body. Let's say there is a person with this condition who has the personality of a saved Christian, but also has the alternate personality of an aethiest. When this person dies, do they go to Heaven or Hell? Does their soul 'split in two', with each personality going to the appropriate location? 3) When the end-times come, those who accept the Mark of the Beast will be damned to Hell. But what about now? What if someone were to tatoo themselves with the Mark of the Beast in the current day and age? Would they too be damned? Response: wish I could answer your questions but I don't think I can. 3. I don't think the "mark" of the beast will come in a tatoo form, therefore I think it's impossible to do that today. If one could, well, I guess if they repented for having done it before the beast came, I would think they could still go to heaven, because it was a faux mark to begin with. 2. MPI.......I don't think people are born with a MP. So, if this person was saved before the 2nd personality cropped up, I believe they would go to heaven. If the athiest personality is the true personality. Know what? These kinds of questions drive me nuts. Know why? I'm guilty of asking them myself. I think only God would know and it's probably dependent. 1. It might, and it's also very frightening to think about. I don't see how just one brain cell might be kept alive, though. Besides, aren't brain cells different from skin cells? We could go very deep with these questions, and it would be endless, because any answer leads to another like question. Sometimes it's fun though, if one can discipline themselves enough to stop thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Here's my two cent... 1) If one of your skin cells die, then you are obviously still 'alive'. I'm sure that many people believe that even if your entire body died, with only your brain surviving (and kept on a form of life support), then the 'you' is still alive. Your soul is not yet on its journey into the afterlife, since your brain is fully functional (so I believe). But, the question is: how many of your brain cells have to die before the soul crosses over? Might the soul still be retained in this reality if even a single brain cell is kept alive? I'm sure it's a difficult question. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that your spirit and your body forms a living soul, and one's brain connects the two. It seems to me that the spirit can leave anytime, and return. I don't have the ability to do this at will, yet it seems that people have made this claim that weren't even religous and some credibility has been given to them in different reports (maybe for no other reason than entertainment value, I don't know). My opinion, at this time, is that the spirit can leave the body while the brain is still alive. 2) Perhaps some of you have heard of "Multiple Personality Disorder", the condition in which one person seems to manifest two or more individual personalities in the same body. Let's say there is a person with this condition who has the personality of a saved Christian, but also has the alternate personality of an aethiest. When this person dies, do they go to Heaven or Hell? Does their soul 'split in two', with each personality going to the appropriate location? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I believe everyone is eventually going to heaven... so of course they both go. Everyone does have to be accountable and responsible for their actions though. I believe eventually these personalities reconcile and the person becomes whole. I have even given some consideration that perhaps we ALL, including animals and plants and everything, might be alternate personalities/expressions of a single entity, with an amnesic barrier and therefore no co-consciousness... just a thought. 3) When the end-times come, those who accept the Mark of the Beast will be damned to Hell. But what about now? What if someone were to tatoo themselves with the Mark of the Beast in the current day and age? Would they too be damned? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My opinion of the mark of the beast 666 is of the narcissistic man. 6 is the number of man, the expression of it being written 3 times, I think, is in regards to man thinking about himself only in spirit, mind, and actions. The tatoo could then be meaningless compared to present conditions of that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 My opinion, at this time, is that the spirit can leave the body while the brain is still alive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Amanda: do you have any examples or studies of this that can be more or less proven? (or, at least, convincing?) People go on brain trips all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joseph Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (snip)1) If one of your skin cells die, then you are obviously still 'alive'. I'm sure that many people believe that even if your entire body died, with only your brain surviving (and kept on a form of life support), then the 'you' is still alive. Your soul is not yet on its journey into the afterlife, since your brain is fully functional (so I believe). But, the question is: how many of your brain cells have to die before the soul crosses over? Might the soul still be retained in this reality if even a single brain cell is kept alive? I'm sure it's a difficult question. I wrote a short story once which would make a great episode for like the Outter Limits or some such inwhich a doctor found "The Eternal Point" (atomic location where the soul leaves the brain to escape to the next realm) at which he could open the doorway into the next life (even if a person were already dead so long as that part of their brain had not decomposed too much). Saddly the only ending I could figure out for it was to turn the thing into some type of zombie type of story and that bothered me as I wanted it to be more uplifting inwhich science demonstrated "another realm's" existence. Just goes to show you how my mind works I take a wonderful idea about giving hope to people through evidence of an "afterlife" and turn it into some zombie movie where people who are dead have their "eternal point" blocked by science and thus can not die, HEH...strange. My answer is of course that I don't give a rats ass as long as I am not suffering during this point. Dreamless sleep...sounds peaceful in the end. Better than any robotic eternal worship service idea of heaven I have constantly heard. 2) Perhaps some of you have heard of "Multiple Personality Disorder", the condition in which one person seems to manifest two or more individual personalities in the same body. Let's say there is a person with this condition who has the personality of a saved Christian, but also has the alternate personality of an aethiest. When this person dies, do they go to Heaven or Hell? A Christian would say the demon goes to hell and the saved person goes to heaven. (or perhaps even visa versa except then it wouldn't be a demon but two spirits in one body, HEH!) Does their soul 'split in two', with each personality going to the appropriate location? That whole thing about "going" someplace always made me think. God is said to be "omnipresent" and by such "heaven" is pretty much "everywhere." Therefore this idea of "traveling" is due to our reality of three dimensional space-time. There is perhaps a non-relative reality that exists which could contain the "3 Omni God" but of course it would not be a reality like our own with the same limitations. The idea of the brain holding two separate conciousness is not against the NT teachings but would strain the Tanakh teachings a great deal I believe. If a "demon" is itself another "creature/soul/life/entity" and both a man and a demon could share a body there is no reason to not accept that two "souls" could not be in one body. At least I have not heard a single thing taught against such an event taking place however that it is much more likely that they would say that it was a demon. My personal opinion is that it (MP) is a brain disease and nothing more and that both can look forward to a restful dreamless sleep despite being an arrogant egotistical blind faith christian or not. 3) When the end-times come, those who accept the Mark of the Beast will be damned to Hell. But what about now? What if someone were to tatoo themselves with the Mark of the Beast in the current day and age? Would they too be damned? Anyone taking this Mark is by default not an xian and by default is condemned under their theological viewpoint, in our day or end of days. My personal viewpoint is one of relative morality. Any omniscient Entity would see the worship of the saved equal to the blasphemy of the atheist, both demonstrating His omniscience at different ends of the spectrum and nothing more, taking pride in both's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Hey, XCrispy! I have no idea who the person is who posted those questions, so I wont' direct any comment toward that person. I do hope maybe s/he is looking more closely at the christian system. I hope Madame M is right! I don't mean to diss anyone, but as for me and my house, we can't take the questions as such seriously. OK, to explain why the plastic cereal bowl in my kitchen moved from its usual place to inside a green bowl on the top shelf, I'll hypothesize that a unicorn came in and moved it with its horn. But now ... You know where this is headed so I'll stop now. I like them, though. These questions remind us of what theology is about. It's the art of explaining away the absurdities once you've dulled the edge of Occam's Razor. Great fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Amanda: do you have any examples or studies of this that can be more or less proven? (or, at least, convincing?) People go on brain trips all the time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mythra, it is not so much as what is out there about it, but the magnitude of it! It could be a new frontier re-emerging, as it seems to have been accepted by the ancient Aztecs and Egyptians, perhaps more... you know, before they had TV. It is not so much as what they say about it, apparently it is scientifically in an early stage... but the significant attribute is HOW MUCH there is out there about it! Haven't you heard that remote viewing is said to be used by our military? If you put in a search on Yahoo or whatever, for Out Of Body Experiences or Astral Projection... thousands of sites come up! There are testimonies and more testamonies. Here are a few sites, of the overwhelming amount available, I've posted for you. http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html http://www.hermetic.com/stavish/essays/lucid.html http://www.oberf.org/ http://www.iacworld.org/ http://www.astral-projections.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Amanda: do you have any examples or studies of this that can be more or less proven? (or, at least, convincing?) People go on brain trips all the time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is by no means any type of proof, though helpful to me. My grandmother was dying, and I was visiting her almost everyday after work. I was walking in a directional motion from God, for my reason being there(Hometown). My grandmother always seemed to be a good person, and believed in Christ(Very conservative, Methodist). She was in the last few days, actually 2 days before she passed. She began to become unconscious, not knowing who anyone was or anything. She said early in the first day, talking while seemingly sleeping, that she saw things crawling on the wall trying to get her. Latter, she was talking with someone that had been dead over 10years, telling her about everone and different things from the current years. I was sitting beside her the day before she passed( while everyone thought she was delusional). I didnt, I thought for the first time, she is entering into something spiritual( My opinion). She began talking about a sitaution when she was little where she took something from her sister. She was answering like someone was telling her why she shouldnt have done that or in general, questioning the event. Also, the last day she said (talking with someone unconsciously), that she always believed it but thought alot of it was just a story( I assumed the Bible). She said to my mother and I, (panically) that she needed to get baptized, and she said to me, Dont let them get me( Assuming demons). Anyhow, just a something that I encountered that gave me some personal insight perhaps, about the body, and soul. I actually told my wife that I believe she had already went(soul), and the body was left to quit working. Remeber, for most Christians anyhow, Death is merely a walkthrough to our eternal destination. Oh yea, she was right, they did "try" to get me. I went through the most personal and family oriented attacks and depressions since my choice to live to obey, God that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 I have a former student who is getting his phd at UCLA trying to figure out where muscle cells die and live. His research is for para and quadrapalegic people hoping to discover a way they can walk again. Obviously, god does not want this information released yet or he would have given the info to a xtian researcher who then could publish it in a jounal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 For reference, it is very possible to keep neurons alive in cell culture, as well as freeze them down for long-term storage. Just have to have the right culture conditions, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Not to disparage your grand-ma's death YoYo...but is she in hell right now if she committed a sin in her mind then passed on without asking for forgiveness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Tailor Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I think that your spirit and your body forms a living soul, and one's brain connects the two. What might be the physical characteristics of brain tissue that mediate such a linkage? Is it something unique to the brain or can it occur within, say, spinal cord tissue? Also, what are some things provided by the soul alone? What would we expect to notice about someone with a functioning brain but no connection to a soul? Note that there is a staggering amount of evidence for brain-memory and brain-personality correspondence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 What might be the physical characteristics of brain tissue that mediate such a linkage? Is it something unique to the brain or can it occur within, say, spinal cord tissue? Also, what are some things provided by the soul alone? What would we expect to notice about someone with a functioning brain but no connection to a soul? Note that there is a staggering amount of evidence for brain-memory and brain-personality correspondence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Samurai Tailor, I think there is an aspect of us that is not necessarily dependent on the body to exist, but dwelling within to experience life in a tangible way. There is a popular book called The Power of Now... where it suggests that our thoughts go masquerading as us, but we are NOT our thoughts. There is an inner 'awareness' of our thoughts... and that 'awareness' is separate from our thoughts, and is us. I think that this 'awareness' is experiencing the physical through this body, but when the body is no longer useful to experience life... this awareness/spirit leaves. Therefore this is not a function or dependent of the body, just a separate indweller, that I believe matures with the body, for the short experience this body supplies for it, called a lifetime. A soul is the combining of the spirit and the body, perhaps joined by the mind (instead of brain). I suppose if the spirit leaves, or vacates more often, and just the body exists, I've been curious if this would cause dementia or similar symptoms. Of course, if the body or mental faculties are of no use, why would the spirit stay? Coma? Death? Could you please explain what you mean by " Note that there is a staggering amount of evidence for brain-memory and brain-personality correspondence."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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