gypsy79 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Also, since he is ultimately responsible for how our individual brains are wired and what circumstances we are raised in, isn't he also responsible for our beliefs or lack thereof? ...... well put DevaLight!! Of course not! He loves us so much that he allows us free will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbi tt Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Why are Christians so afraid of hell ? The same reason some people are afraid of death... the same reason some children are afraid to go to sleep at night... the same reason some people are afraid of the dark... the same reason some people are afraid of their neighbors, or spiders or homeless people or Republicans or democrats or Arabs or Blacks or handicapped people... What is the purpose of fear of anything? IMO, It heightens our awareness of our self... it is a brain drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Revisiting this question, we are afraid because we cannot have certain knowledge of what may take place after death. We cannot have certain knowledge that Bible God does not exist, but we can say that it is very, very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shion Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hell did not make much sense as a punishment to me as a kid, but then again, God didn't seem the rational kind of character to me, either. I remember thinking after reading a children's version of Exodus, when I was six that I would lead a great rebellion against God from Hell if I had to, but I wasn't going to be one His, ever. I was six, what can I say, and it was a theme I kept in my thoughts for quite awhile, until my actual conversion when I was 17. By that point I was tired of struggling against the dogma, and I thought I needed to do it to face my hatred of family members who well abused children and animals for the hell of it. I needed to 'forgive them' and seek forgiveness to find peace. Really it was a wod of emotional garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think its not a bad idea to maybe weigh in on this discussion briefly if I may. Speaking as someone who does believe in the God of the bible I live in constant questions. Not about my faith specifically but about how that faith is supposed to be worked out in a world that, admittedly, makes faith a hard thing to have. Yet the fear of Hell has never (that I can recall) been a movtivating factor for me. There are many arguments that have been brought forth in this particular forum and I don't pretend or pressume to believe that I could adequately (for you not for me I mean to say) provide answers to those arguments. I believe, therefore, that I should simply weigh in on the original question of fear. I simply am not motivated by this fear. Sure there are reasons to work toward speaking the truth as I see it to others in this arena but in the end it is more that I believe it to be the right thing to do as one who has found "the meaning of life" so to speak. I hope that we can open up discussion and that I may prove to be a better representative of my God than some of you have had the misfortune to meet. Thank you for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I was formerly a Catholic. Being Catholic isn't something you chose. Most of the folks here are former Evangelicals, so it's a bit different because they at some point in the past thought they were drawn to God and became born again. I was never born again, so I don't know what that's like. The fear of Hell is an important part of Catholicism (though less so than in Evangelical Christianity), but it's more that fear of Hell keeps you Catholic. I doubt anyone would chose the Roman faith out of a desire to avoid Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I simply am not motivated by this fear. Sure there are reasons to work toward speaking the truth as I see it to others in this arena but in the end it is more that I believe it to be the right thing to do as one who has found "the meaning of life" so to speak. I hope that we can open up discussion and that I may prove to be a better representative of my God than some of you have had the misfortune to meet. Thank you for your thoughts. I believe that you personally are not motivated by fear. But you should be aware of two things: 1. It's not the rejection of fear that motivates unbelief. See the thread I started called "Even if the Bible is true. 2. People don't become atheists because they meet a lot of disagreeable Christians. I'd rather hang out with my fundamentalist friend and coworker Dan than any of Ayn Rand's cult. Rather, in my opinion most people lose their Christianity because ( a ) they wind up meeting non-Christians that are decent and wonder why a loving God would send those folks to hell forever; and ( b ) the wonders of the modern world from space shuttles to the Geneva Convention no longer assume the Biblical worldview. The worldview and assumptions of Jesus--and I love and respect Jesus--just aren't shared by modern people and may be at odds with our contemporary conceptions of how the world does and should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Speaking as someone who does believe in the God of the bible I live in constant questions. Not about my faith specifically but about how that faith is supposed to be worked out in a world that, admittedly, makes faith a hard thing to have. For myself when I became a believer it had nothing to do with the fear of hell, but rather in looking to find expression and insight into existential experience. I came to God looking for answers, for meaning to life. What I found however in peeling back the pages of sacred text in the light of Christian doctrine was an image of God that contradicted the heart of love, hope, peace, and life. The doctrine of hell, as imagined by Christians, defined an image of a deity that was sub-human, not one to look up to and embrace as beauty, but one to fear and experience anxiety about - despite the counter argument you have been spared his wrath. The fact remained, it spoke of a Personality which was capable of such a contradiction to love, and all subsequent "theologies" were just mental gymnastics to explain this contradiction. Such explanation failed, and always will fail, to speak to the heart. These theologies explaining this contradiction is what takes what may otherwise be an inspirational faith, and turn it into a religious prison. It's the escape of that prison that inspires me to say, that true salvation is salvation from religion. When you say above that living in this world makes having faith a hard thing, would it have anything to do with this: Seeing love, life, hope, and belief in people that aren't part of this imagined "fold" of the "church" (viz., those holding to orthodox teachings)? Does present a certain challenge to ones view on an emotional level to be sure. They are living contradictions to the arguments of preachers and theologians, not mere arguments. It's that along with many other things that led me to listen to my heart, and not the theologians, who upon deeper examination are frankly bad guessers. Per chance, is this the difficulty you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWTP Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I went to hell and got a cool shot glass! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Grand_Cayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I simply am not motivated by this fear. Sure there are reasons to work toward speaking the truth as I see it to others in this arena but in the end it is more that I believe it to be the right thing to do as one who has found "the meaning of life" so to speak. I hope that we can open up discussion and that I may prove to be a better representative of my God than some of you have had the misfortune to meet. Thank you for your thoughts. I believe that you personally are not motivated by fear. But you should be aware of two things: 1. It's not the rejection of fear that motivates unbelief. See the thread I started called "Even if the Bible is true. 2. People don't become atheists because they meet a lot of disagreeable Christians. I'd rather hang out with my fundamentalist friend and coworker Dan than any of Ayn Rand's cult. Rather, in my opinion most people lose their Christianity because ( a ) they wind up meeting non-Christians that are decent and wonder why a loving God would send those folks to hell forever; and ( b ) the wonders of the modern world from space shuttles to the Geneva Convention no longer assume the Biblical worldview. The worldview and assumptions of Jesus--and I love and respect Jesus--just aren't shared by modern people and may be at odds with our contemporary conceptions of how the world does and should work. 1. I will have to check that one out. There is a lot of "stuff" to look at in the forums and elsewhere on this particular site. I'm wading through it slowly. 2. Fair enough in that asessment...especially if this is the case for you. I seem to see a number of individuals on this site, however, who would, at least according to their posting, disagree with this. Though I see your point about the idea of a loving God sending people to "hell" because of a lack of belief or perhaps a belief in a system that would be identified as "wrong" by that God. That's a tough one and one I do not believe I am well qualified to address though I think I understand where I find myself in that answer. I hope, that, through discussion some of the members of this site can come to see that there are those of us on the other side of the "religious" fence who do ask the questions. This is more what I meant by my comment on the Christians some may have met. I do ask the questions and do not have an issue with having the discussions. That being said I must point out a thought I had about your final idea/thought. I do not believe that I see where it follows that because many (even a large majority of) people believing something ("just aren't shared by modern people") it therefore has to be true. I may have read your thought incorrectly but that is my take on that particular aspect of your response. I thank you for your willingness to engage in a conversation without using a defensive or antagonistic stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 quote Antlerman When you say above that living in this world makes having faith a hard thing, would it have anything to do with this: Seeing love, life, hope, and belief in people that aren't part of this imagined "fold" of the "church" (viz., those holding to orthodox teachings)? Does present a certain challenge to ones view on an emotional level to be sure. They are living contradictions to the arguments of preachers and theologians, not mere arguments. It's that along with many other things that led me to listen to my heart, and not the theologians, who upon deeper examination are frankly bad guessers. Per chance, is this the difficulty you speak of? I may not have explained myself very well and for that I apologize. This is not actually what I meant by living life with faith being hard in the world we exist in. I have no issue with the idea of noble, moral and even good behavior coming out of an individual who does not have any faith at all or from one whose faith would be different from mine. Just as I have no issue with the idea that many things have been and will continue to be done in the name of the God I follow which are neither noble, moral or good. This is not a tension in the faith I live have. Each person has the capacity to be and do good things just as each person has the capacity to be and do bad ones. The issue is not in meeting people who have no faith or different faith doing good things...the issue is that at some point or another we all do bad ones as well. And thats where my faith comes to. But I don't want to get into an argument about the theology of salvation or how I reconcile my faith with a God who requires perfection. I was merely hoping to clarify my meaning when speaking of faith being hard to live in our world. And that difficulty does come in that there are many other places we CAN go. There are so many answers that could be true to the questions that I answer with faith that anyone who wishes to be thourough and discerning must ask the questions of why we believe. And that is where the difficulty lies for me. To find the answers I believe to be true and to do so with so many other possibilities vying for my attention and perhaps even belief. I hope this helps to clarify an admittedly cryptic original response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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