EdwardAbbey Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Why are Christians so obsessed with thinking they must have a purpose in life? Where is it written that a person must have purpose in life anyway? According to their belief, if a person doesn't have Jesus or God in their lives, they don't have any purpose or direction in life. What nonsense. As an atheist, I am perfectly capable of creating my own purpose in life without the help of imaginary forces that don't even exist outside the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 It's pretty much a scam. What sense does it make for an external force to give purpose to your life? How does that make sense anyways? It's your life, in my opinion, it's purpose can only come inside yourself. Anything else is just playing along to fit in and that cheapens the purpose no matter what it ends up being. My 2 cents, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 It's pretty much a scam. What sense does it make for an external force to give purpose to your life? How does that make sense anyways? It's your life, in my opinion, it's purpose can only come inside yourself. Anything else is just playing along to fit in and that cheapens the purpose no matter what it ends up being. My 2 cents, I agree. Good comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why are Christians so obsessed with thinking they must have a purpose in life? Where is it written that a person must have purpose in life anyway? According to their belief, if a person doesn't have Jesus or God in their lives, they don't have any purpose or direction in life. What nonsense. As an atheist, I am perfectly capable of creating my own purpose in life without the help of imaginary forces that don't even exist outside the mind. It's an excellent question, Edward, and one of the perenially best ones posted in this web site. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I was raised by my parents to define my own purpose in life. My mother posed the question to me when I was 12...not looking for an answer, but just to put my young brain into gear, and think... The answer to me was, and has always been, "define your purpose in life, for yourself...but remember...do all the good you can do, but do no harm...". Nothing else needed. That is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why are Christians so obsessed with thinking they must have a purpose in life? Where is it written that a person must have purpose in life anyway? According to their belief, if a person doesn't have Jesus or God in their lives, they don't have any purpose or direction in life. What nonsense. As an atheist, I am perfectly capable of creating my own purpose in life without the help of imaginary forces that don't even exist outside the mind. Well, if you define purpose as Jesus being your Lord and Saviour then that's a pretty specified definition of purpose. I define purpose as productive achievement, which is necessary for my survival as a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiebrains100 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I was given a book entitled The Purpose Driven Life by my Mormon neighbor who is horrified that he lives right smack next to an atheist. We are good friends and converse about religion but the book he gave me only proves that Christians consider the question of "purpose-in-life" as the sticking point that will plunge us into a Vicodin haze only to recover through "correct Biblical teaching". This is complete nonsense. What they define as "purpose in life" is really a fear of living a daring life of impulsive passion. A daring life of impulsive passion is an expression which refers to people who follow what is in their hearts, and like people who prefer to follow their head, or follow the advice of other people, or follow a mysterious man in a dark blue raincoat, people who lead a daring life of impulsive passion end up doing all sorts of things. For instance, if you ever find yourself reading a book entitled The Bible, you would find the story of Adam and Eve, whose daring life of impulsive passion led to them putting on clothing for the first time in their lives, in order to leave the snake-infested garden where they had been living. Bonnie and Clyde, another famous couple who lived a daring life of impulsive passion, found that it led to a successful if short career in bank robbery. And in my own case, in the few moments where I have led a daring life of impulsive passion, it has led to all sorts of trouble, from false accusations of arson to a broken lipstick case I can never have repaired. Purposes are many....my Mormon neighbor is truly fraught with fear of living a daring life of impulsive passion so he cowers under The-Purpose-Driven-Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 What I don't get is why do Christians think that if you believe in god, then your purpose is given to you. Even if you believe in god, you still have to choose what to do with that belief. Like, after you believe in god, what do you do next? Which church do you join? Do you create your own belief system? Do you decide to be baptized or not? Do you decide to preach the gospel to all the nations or do you believe everyone will be saved? Do you love your neighbor as yourself or do you damn them to hell? Even if you believe in a god, your purpose isn't being given to you. You still have to ultimately make choices in your life. It's just Christianity has deluded us into thinking that the purpose is being divinely given to us when we're really the ones making the choices ourselves all along. Besides, doesn't the idea of a divine purpose from a god contradict the doctrine of free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavenslaughing Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 A purpose in this life defined by attaining a heavenly life in the next strikes me as a stopgap measure. So you achieve this purpose, and you're living forever. What's your purpose in that? From my own experience with Mormonism, I learned the dictum, "man is that he might have joy." Woman, too. I think. This is interesting, since it implies that our god-given purpose is no different from choosing ourselves that our purpose is to be happy. The reason we can't choose whatever pleases us most is that certain actions defined as sinful will keep us from happiness in the long term. 'Course, happiness in Mormonism is paired with an idea of growth. We're supposed to keep learning and growing more wise and more powerful, until eventually we become gods ourselves. So joy isn't the same thing as pleasure. Growth, as I learned it, seems tied to values of industriousness, morality, giving, and loving. ("Morality" here has some unfortunate meanings.) So purpose of life is to find joy in producing and giving, while caring for the self and always learning. Put in this last way, I can agree with the proposition, just I don't need an external or supernatural source for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 ...you would find the story of Adam and Eve, whose daring life of impulsive passion led to them putting on clothing for the first time in their lives, in order to leave the snake-infested garden where they had been living. On the subject of "purpose", one of the best statements I've ever read is in Kurt Vonnegut's masterpiece Cat's Cradle, in the context of The Books of Bokonon: In the beginning, God created the earth, and he looked upon it in His cosmic loneliness. And God said, "Let Us make living creatures out of mud, so the mud can see what We have done." And God created every living creature that now moveth, and one was man. Mud as man alone could speak. God leaned close as mud as man sat up, looked around, and spoke. Man blinked. "What is the purpose of all this?" he asked politely. "Everything must have a purpose?" asked God. "Certainly," said man. "Then I leave it to you to think of one for all this," said God. And He went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why are Christians so obsessed with thinking they must have an externally-defined purpose in life? Bold text added by me. As I see it, the question really is the external thing - why are morontheists utterly incapable to find a purpose for their lives without someone telling them what it's gonna be? Where is it written that a person must have purpose in life anyway? Just my personal $0.02, but I think that we humans in general want to see purpose in our own lives just like we desire to find a pattern in everything. Instinctually, we abhor randomness, perceived meaninglessness et cetera. And our brain, being (as we all know I trust ) a pattern recognition machine, falls in line with that. As an atheist, I am perfectly capable of creating my own purpose in life without the help of imaginary forces that don't even exist outside the mind. While we disagree about those forces (obviously ) I fully agree with you. Life is what one makes of it, period. Too bad that morontheists can't make anything of it on their own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I haven't read all posts yet, but I wonder... what are the purpose for Christians? I mean, I'm not sure I get the "purpose" or "meaning" even as for a Christian belief! Is it to be God's pets for eternity? What is it exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 As others have said, there is no purpose in life other than what you give to yourself. If you have no purpose and are just living life, someone is eventually going to appear who will supply you with a purpose. I say "no thanks" to that. Take your purpose, and your control, elsewhere. To me, it seems like sometimes Christians hardly have minds of their own. They have given their lives over to someone else's idea and allowed themselves to be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I was given a book entitled The Purpose Driven Life by my Mormon neighbor who is horrified that he lives right smack next to an atheist. We are good friends and converse about religion but the book he gave me only proves that Christians consider the question of "purpose-in-life" as the sticking point that will plunge us into a Vicodin haze only to recover through "correct Biblical teaching". This is complete nonsense. What they define as "purpose in life" is really a fear of living a daring life of impulsive passion. A daring life of impulsive passion is an expression which refers to people who follow what is in their hearts, and like people who prefer to follow their head, or follow the advice of other people, or follow a mysterious man in a dark blue raincoat, people who lead a daring life of impulsive passion end up doing all sorts of things. For instance, if you ever find yourself reading a book entitled The Bible, you would find the story of Adam and Eve, whose daring life of impulsive passion led to them putting on clothing for the first time in their lives, in order to leave the snake-infested garden where they had been living. Bonnie and Clyde, another famous couple who lived a daring life of impulsive passion, found that it led to a successful if short career in bank robbery. And in my own case, in the few moments where I have led a daring life of impulsive passion, it has led to all sorts of trouble, from false accusations of arson to a broken lipstick case I can never have repaired. Purposes are many....my Mormon neighbor is truly fraught with fear of living a daring life of impulsive passion so he cowers under The-Purpose-Driven-Life. That book was big in churches here in New Zealand. 30 Days of Purpose or 30 Days of Night or whatever it was called was a study being done in churches every where, using is book. It was one of the last studies I did as a Christian and I can still remember being incredulous at some of the crap that Rick Warren was coming up with. Like the BS the everyone is planned by God before they were conceived. Oh yeah, right, so it's just a coincedence then that people who take fertility drugs some times end up with multiple births? Whatever, Rick. Yep, I'd safely say that Rick Warren helped in my progress towards becoming an ex-Christian. BTW I agree with what people are saying. It's up to us to create out own purpose. Really what's so different to one of us saying my purpose is to be the best parent I can be compared to say a Christian whose purpose is to be a cell group leader or a missionary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiebrains100 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Onceconvinced, Rick Warren's drivel is absolute torture. It is so awful that comedian Bill Maher has used it in his schtick. I was lucky enough to see Maher in Dallas at the Majestic Theater and he opened his act with Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 The purpose of life? I haven’t read most of the other posts here, which might be a bit rude on my part. But I’ll throw out a few thoughts anyway. It seems to me that life in some sense is its own purpose. That is, the purpose of life is to live. And it seems to me that the criterion for “success†has not really changed very much over the years despite our multitudinous and elaborate philosophies. And I think of our shared struggle to acquire mates and resources, the struggle to live. I guess I could get a little fancier and assert that our purpose is creating a better future for our children. Some say that we should pursue that which brings us happiness. Some say that our goal is to die with as little regret as possible. But I can’t imagine myself saying without reserve that the purpose of life is X, whatever X may be. For surely I think that our purposes are as diverse as they are potentially fulfilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The purpose of life. Works great if you are a robot. Or a cog in a machine. Applying it to living organic beings? The concept just falls apart. Unless you force the square pegs into the round holes by convincing them they require "purpose" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 End3 just told me in the other thread that the whole "Christian's purpose to live" is this: "To know God." And I'm not sure what that really means... it's a bit hard to "know" a supernatural, imaginary being, who doesn't really show himself, can't be tested, and according to Nenlow acts in illogical ways (i.e. irrational behavior and untrustworthy). So knowing God maybe isn't much more than just, "hey, now I'm an theist, and that's the meaning of life..." Weird... I think my meaning of life extends far beyond just "knowing" something about some imaginary being. The problem is that Christians got a lot of words, but no context, no meaning, no definition, no content in what they're saying. It's just words! Blah-blah here, and blah-blah there, and that somehow is supposed to make sense? I think the big mystery in religion isn't the religion itself, but the confusing concepts they can't agree upon or even comprehend when they finally do agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 End3 just told me in the other thread that the whole "Christian's purpose to live" is this: "To know God." And I'm not sure what that really means... it's a bit hard to "know" a supernatural, imaginary being, who doesn't really show himself, can't be tested, and according to Nenlow acts in illogical ways (i.e. irrational behavior and untrustworthy). So knowing God maybe isn't much more than just, "hey, now I'm an theist, and that's the meaning of life..." Weird... I think my meaning of life extends far beyond just "knowing" something about some imaginary being. The problem is that Christians got a lot of words, but no context, no meaning, no definition, no content in what they're saying. It's just words! Blah-blah here, and blah-blah there, and that somehow is supposed to make sense? I think the big mystery in religion isn't the religion itself, but the confusing concepts they can't agree upon or even comprehend when they finally do agree! I'll define it Hans....knowing God would be knowing many things, and if He is in fact the creator, any knowledge you seek would be in pursuit of knowing God. YOU define it for us friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderwire Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I have several purposes in life. A few are listed... to provide for my family and to be the best husband and father I can be. to be an outstanding and valued employee. to be a loyal and trusted friend. to play as hard as I work. Those are just a few. None of them require spiritual guidance or supernatural phenomena. All of them require my personal motivation and attention. Seems pretty simple if ya ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I'll define it Hans....knowing God would be knowing many things, and if He is in fact the creator, any knowledge you seek would be in pursuit of knowing God. YOU define it for us friend... Oh! I get it! When I was looking up DOM/SUB Dungeon Etiquette earlier today to get ready for my first time attending such an Event next month, I was really getting one step closer to knowing god! And yesterday when I was looking up the differences between fairies, pixies, brownies, and domovoi.....same thing. I was getting to know god. And last week, when I looked up the phone number of a place that does great Chinese and delivers....again....I was getting to know God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gradstu09 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hans, Q: What is my purpose in this life? A: To know, love, and serve god in this world, and to be happy with him in Heaven. Baltimore Catechism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I'll define it Hans....knowing God would be knowing many things, and if He is in fact the creator, any knowledge you seek would be in pursuit of knowing God. YOU define it for us friend... So science, philosophy, psychology, biology, etc... all mount to knowledge of God? Well, that's Nature, my friend. God is Nature. Like one of the other threads: The Universe is God. Meaning, we all know God when we are rational about knowledge and understanding of the Universe, not when we follow an old and outdated book. This is the God of Thomas Jefferson, and not Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I'll define it Hans....knowing God would be knowing many things, and if He is in fact the creator, any knowledge you seek would be in pursuit of knowing God. YOU define it for us friend... So science, philosophy, psychology, biology, etc... all mount to knowledge of God? Well, that's Nature, my friend. God is Nature. Like one of the other threads: The Universe is God. Meaning, we all know God when we are rational about knowledge and understanding of the Universe, not when we follow an old and outdated book. This is the God of Thomas Jefferson, and not Christianity. I don't really disagree.....but, when you die. the funeral won't be, "ahh, Hans had those great toes, and oh, the hair, do you remember the hair", or possibly, "that SOB looked alot like Val Kilmer".....no, it will be about your quailties and "works". It might be about something physical, but that would only be an aspect. So placing it all into the nature category, IMO, would be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I don't really disagree.....but, when you die. the funeral won't be, "ahh, Hans had those great toes, and oh, the hair, do you remember the hair", or possibly, "that SOB looked alot like Val Kilmer".....no, it will be about your quailties and "works". It might be about something physical, but that would only be an aspect. So placing it all into the nature category, IMO, would be incorrect. Wait? You're saying that a naturalist purpose is only the attributes of his body, while the spiritual purpose is when you do things? That sounds odd. Nature includes your actions, and who you are with qualities and works too. It's all part of Nature. It's part of existence. It's part of THIS. All that you see around you, that is Nature. What you're describing is nothing supernatural or in the need of a God or even Christianity. What you're describing is what Plato and Aristotle understood and wrote books about, hundreds of years before Jesus. So if they got get it without Jesus, then so can we. My qualities and my work isn't defined from the Bible, is it? "Hans was a good programmer," is somewhere in a the Book? Or "Hans was a good dad and loved his family," requires Jesus before someone can say it at my funeral? That's extremely odd... I think you're quite confused. (Btw, I don't look like Val Kilmer, but many have made the comment that I look like Leonardo DeCaprio.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I don't really disagree.....but, when you die. the funeral won't be, "ahh, Hans had those great toes, and oh, the hair, do you remember the hair", or possibly, "that SOB looked alot like Val Kilmer".....no, it will be about your quailties and "works". It might be about something physical, but that would only be an aspect. So placing it all into the nature category, IMO, would be incorrect. Wait? You're saying that a naturalist purpose is only the attributes of his body, while the spiritual purpose is when you do things? That sounds odd. Nature includes your actions, and who you are with qualities and works too. It's all part of Nature. It's part of existence. It's part of THIS. All that you see around you, that is Nature. What you're describing is nothing supernatural or in the need of a God or even Christianity. What you're describing is what Plato and Aristotle understood and wrote books about, hundreds of years before Jesus. So if they got get it without Jesus, then so can we. My qualities and my work isn't defined from the Bible, is it? "Hans was a good programmer," is somewhere in a the Book? Or "Hans was a good dad and loved his family," requires Jesus before someone can say it at my funeral? That's extremely odd... I think you're quite confused. (Btw, I don't look like Val Kilmer, but many have made the comment that I look like Leonardo DeCaprio.) Good try Leonardo, but let's see some reproducability and accuracy with your presentation of the "Science of Love" as it effects all things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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