Karma Is Inefficient Punishment

[DebraS]

I am having a discussion with an e-mail friend who is a Hindu. He was telling me of their belief that we suffer in this life for wrong actions committed in our previous life. I argued that this is awfully inefficient. Why wouldn't an almighty god just punish us right then and there? Think about it, say a thief is about to steal something. God knows your heart and the moment you pick up the item with intent to steal....ZAP! Crime would never get a foothold in our lives and in our communities because all would see absolute and immediate punishment for doing wrong to others.

 

Imagine someone says something rude and totally out of line to you. A godly hand then appears and slaps the offender right in the mouth! Justice would be swift and sweet and you would not even have to hurt your own hand.

 

I wrote about the method used to train pets, where we must punish wrongdoing within a few moments of the offense. If my cat scratches the furniture, I must address the problem at that time, I can not come back later and expect them to know why they are being given a sharp "no!" or a light swat on the behind.

 

So why is it acceptable for so many to think they must pay for crimes that they in their current personalities, did not commit? I suggested that this was another religious excuse. Religious leaders don't know why life is the way it is, so they create this idea that people are jerks to you now because you were a jerk last go 'round.

 

Odd that humans can figure out animals better than this so-called god can understand his own creations. My friend has not written back in about two weeks. I better go send him a note, hopefully he is just stumped for an answer.

[Deva]

I think this is just an easy and simplistic answer to the big question of why bad things happen to good people. Answer-- they really weren't so good. They might seem good now, but they must have done something really bad in the past so they deserve it.

 

This is a way people can reconcile themselves to injustice and poverty. By figuring that they are suffering now, in the next life it won't be so bad. They accept their hard lot in life more easily.

 

I happen to think there is karma - the word simply means action. Actions have effects, many unforseen effects. Is there a cosmic justice behind it controlling the punishment or reward?, I don't think so.

 

In my opinion it is immoral to think that peoples (such as the Jewish people in the holocaust) have undergone genocide because of something they did in their previous lifetimes.

[DebraS]

Exactly, Deva! Your post continued my thoughts on the subject.

[Dhampir]

I think this is just an easy and simplistic answer to the big question of why bad things happen to good people. Answer-- they really weren't so good. They might seem good now, but they must have done something really bad in the past so they deserve it.

My thinking is that since Hindu society is organized by a series of castes, the idea of karma was furthered so that those in the higher castes don't have to worry so much about unrest among the lower castes. If people just accept that they're poor, hungry, and diseased because of previous crimes, they'll be less inclined toward challenging the status quo.

[Vigile]

I think that as opposed to the xian hell, which is used as a threat, the Hindu position on Karma is not used for social control, but rather as simplistic explanation for life's problems. I could be wrong. But I don't see Hindus running around trying to put the fear of god into others. I certainly didn't see it when I was in India either. They seem to just live and let live; unless of course you happen to be Richard Gere.

[Dhampir]

I think that as opposed to the xian hell, which is used as a threat, the Hindu position on Karma is not used for social control, but rather as simplistic explanation for life's problems. I could be wrong. But I don't see Hindus running around trying to put the fear of god into others. I certainly didn't see it when I was in India either. They seem to just live and let live; unless of course you happen to be Richard Gere.

Could be a more passive form of control. Not something you have to beat people over the head with maybe

[Heavenslaughing]

The initial post takes it that karma and its effects come from the decisions or actions of a Hindu god. This dynamic invokes a Christian logic that's at odds with any Hindu cosmology I've studied. Karma or action accumulates and produces your form in your next incarnation. The gods themselves are subject to karma; they do not control it. There's no question of efficiency, since it isn't punishment in the sense of something imposed to deter behavior. It's simply the way the universe works.

 

In the hands of Brahmins, teachings involving karma generally do support the caste system. Share these ideas with lower-caste Hindus, and half the time they'll laugh and tell you you've chatted with too many Brahmins.

[Evolution_beyond]

I think you'll find that the hindu concept of Karma is not that some God punishes you but that it is a natural consequence of your wrong doing, that what goes around comes around. It might take some time for all of the cause-and-effect to work its way back to you.

 

Personally I don't believe in reincarnation anyway.

 

But I see Karma as the force of cause-and-effect that sending out negative energy increases the negative energy in the world, making it more likely that negative effects will come back to you, plus behaving negatively makes people feel more negatively predisposed towards you, thus making it more likely that you will experience something negative. Meanwhile, sending out positive energy increases the amount of positive energy in the world, making it more likely that positive effects will come back to you, especially since behaving positively encourages people to feel more positive towards you, thus making it more likely that you will experience something positive.

 

Understand?

[Neon Genesis]

I happen to think there is karma - the word simply means action. Actions have effects, many unforseen effects. Is there a cosmic justice behind it controlling the punishment or reward?, I don't think so.

I feel the same way Deva, but I don't call it karma. I just call it common sense.

[DebraS]

You are right, Heavenslaughing, that I did make a leap from the eastern idea of karma to a sort of Judeo-Christian punishment and reward system. At the same time, among my Hindu friends, they have made mention of their pains in this life as "the way it has to be" and telling me that God will reward me for my being a good person. Perhaps this is the way they phrase things when speaking to westerners who do not yet have a good grasp of their complex religion.

 

Evolution Beyond, unfortunately I have found that putting out good vibes makes no difference to how people treat you. Just the other day my neighbor bit my head off when I told her in a totally non-blaming way something that happened between our pets. This is a common experience in my life and I hear the same from those like me who are very kind and caring people.

 

Thinking of a scenario where you would hope what comes around, goes around: At work, boss berates man, who is humiliated and since he can not take it out on boss, yells at his kid who in frustration, kicks his dog. Now, maybe dog will either become a timid shell of itself or bite someone in the family (or maybe the mailman.)

 

Meanwhile, the original instigator goes untouched. Sure, his employees hate him, but they are still working and trying hard to avoid bossman's wrath and boss looks good for running a tight ship.

[Deva]

I happen to think there is karma - the word simply means action. Actions have effects, many unforseen effects. Is there a cosmic justice behind it controlling the punishment or reward?, I don't think so.

I feel the same way Deva, but I don't call it karma. I just call it common sense.

 

LOL Neon, yeah, that works for me too. I say "unforseen effects." I wouldn't say "what comes around goes around" because that implies justice, which I do not believe exists outside of the word "justice".

[par4dcourse]

Someone here has/had the siggie "I do good, I feel good. I do bad, I feel bad. That's my karma."

That's my take on it. Do good to/for enough people, it'll come back. Screw enough people, and you'll get screwed back. No magic involved.