Spirituality, Superstition, Or...ok, Now I'm Just Confused.

[Guest GaryL]

I was hoping to get some feedback on a question I can't seem to find a satisfactory answer to on my own.

 

A few months ago I came to a tipping point where ( on the evidence I felt relevent), I had finally made up my mind that there was no personal god. Evolution, for me, seemed to cancel out any further belief in the all powerful, all knowing, Master of the Universe type bullshit. It just became too unbelievable.

 

Before, during, and after the time I was a xtian, I attended a 12 step program to treat my alcoholism. Praying to god (the generic version), to have my obsession with drinking removed, was, and still is part of my recovery program. What I can't seem to come to grips with is, praying to god (again, the generic version), to remove my obsession, still works. I do not believe praying effects the world around me, but from personal experince, it seems to effect the world inside me.

 

So what do you think is happening? Am I connecting with some supernatural force; (Baal, Zeus, the Holy Snail of Peru?),or am I just talking to myself?

[Guest Freepagan]

Hi, GaryL. Welcome to ExChristian!

 

I do not believe you are talking to yourself. If you feel a connection to god/spirit/energy (or whatever you want to call it), that is undeniable on your part. You know yourself best.

[Ouroboros]

Well, I don't want to piss on the parade, but it's a form of self-hypnotism. You are connecting to a god alright, which is: You. You got the power to do probably 10,000 more than you think, but it's locked into your mind and what is blocking it is your confidence. By praying, you convince your own brain that there is a chance you can do something, and the block is partially removed, and you finally can release the true power of yourself.

 

Again, sorry for being such a psychological realist.

 

On the other hand, who knows, maybe the unreleased power within us is a supernatural energy... like quantum/dark energy, ready to be utilized...

[Antlerman]

I'll go with what Hans says, with a different way of stating it. Not so much hypnotism, but as a form of focused meditation. It's a way to bring focus on the problem and clear other obstructions. It also becomes of vehicle of belief in yourself, by removing your self doubt through "externalizing" your power. God becomes in a sense, your "Super Ego". Are you tapping into the power of "God"? As I like to ask, What's God?

 

My argument is that the end of faith, is really "redemption". And what's that? Finding completion inside?

 

BTW, there are other AA programs that don't use 'god' or higher powers this way. That's just the one the two Catholic brothers started, as I recall.

[Spiderwire]

I can only speak for myself, so I'm gonna! Maybe my thoughts will be of some benefit to you. Maybe not.

 

I distinctly remember my first beer - it was an Old Milwaukee tall boy and the old man and I each drank one on the banks of Ft. Supply Lake on a lazy summer day in Oklahoma. I was 14. I remember it so well because I wanted to feel that feeling forever. The same can be said for the first time I saw, smelled and smoked pot. 14 was a banner year for me. My first question was, "Where can I buy some of this?" There's no need for me to go into any kind of "testimony" concerning my ups and downs with drink and dope, so let's just say I am fully aware of the concepts of addiction.

 

I credited "a higher power" when I quit both vices. When I look back on the situation today - 21 years clean from drugs and 9 years clean from alcohol - I realize that I quit both of them on my own for specific reasons. Because of my own stupidity and irresponsibility, I had hot checks all over town and the D.A. was very cool and offered me a "payment plan" rather than further legal action. That was a strong motivator! My young wife of less than a year was quite fed up with my lazy pothead ass and was packing her bags. Ultimate motivator. I checked into rehab and made both the District Attorney and my wife very proud. So that was that on the dope. The beer and the bourbon took a lot longer to walk away from, but once again, I had a couple of strong motivators. One was a very, very cool police officer who, after stopping me and talking to me for a while, followed me home and reminded me that he could not only have taken me to jail, but he could have put my military career in the toilet. The other was my wife of, now, twelve years who was quite fed up with my belligerent drunken ass and was packing her bags. Simply, my back was against the wall and I had some choices to make. Watching the love of my life walk out the front door was not gonna happen, ya know? So I changed.

 

I allowed myself to believe that God had "delivered" me. Everyone told me that he had. But the thing that got me was that I've seen more people than I can count wind up in jail and prison, in legal and financial trouble, divorced, unemployed, injured and otherwise generally fucked by their spectacular return to the game of dope and booze AFTER hearing their miraculous testimonies. I began to put the pieces together in my own little journey and realized that it was me who was deciding that a joint wouldn't make a bad day any better. It was me who was deciding that I was having a pretty damn good time without a longneck in my hand. Trust me, if I believed that a stiff drink or a bong hit would improve on any situation in my life, I'd be doing one or both right now rather than typing this. But I've seen that I don't need either one to be okay with myself and I don't care to deal with the complications that both of them would add to my life. That's for me, mind you. I ain't putting anything or anyone down for choosing to enjoy ANYTHING... well, as long as they're not driving around and risking my life or those whom I care about. It works for me. No magical power, no miracles, no deliverance, and no higher power. Just an average guy who's learned to stop for a second and think about what he's doing before he makes an ass out of himself.

 

Whatever works or is working for you, stay at it. Good luck.

[hereticzero]

So what do you think is happening? Am I connecting with some supernatural force; (Baal, Zeus, the Holy Snail of Peru?),or am I just talking to myself?

 

Everyone seeks help from one source or another. You gain confidence in yourself to overcome adversity when you speak to yourself--such as prayer. Every time you pray you are encouraging yourself to quit drinking. We come to accept what we hear as truth when it is repeated enough times to become part of our subconscious. I once read that it takes 11 weeks of repetitive actions before our actions become a habit. I think that if we encourage ourselves to break this habit over 11 weeks, then the habit should be easier to deal with. It does not matter if you believe you are praying to god or talking to yourself because in any event, you are working towards bettering yourself.

[Guest GaryL]

I guess I'm more questioning the connection, than what it is I am connecting to. I don't believe in a creator of the universe, I believe that evolution has pretty well got us to the point we are today. As for how life began, I haven't the foggiest idea. Its a one off thing, and probably no more exciting than a fart bubble in a 3 billion year old pool of goo.

 

Does praying, (meditating, chanting?), to a yet unexplained force, make me a theist? I feel confused and dishonest everytime I do it.

 

In the course of time I believe we may find the answer inside our own physical brains. The savant(?) in The Rainman, supposedly had the "ability" to memorize a phone book in a single reading. I don't know how accurate that is, but it seems to suggest untapped "abilities" within ourselves. Is savantism(?), a mutation like Down Syndrome which I believe is, (2 extra chromezones or something?). If it is I can certianly understand how aquiring photographic memorey could be good for our species, or not...jeez, sorry I'm rambling on, but I'm not used to putting my thoughts down on a keypad.

 

No offense taken by you being a realist HanSolo, I don't need there to be a god, I just want to know what there is.

 

A praying atheist, no wonder I'm confused.

[Antlerman]

I guess I'm more questioning the connection, than what it is I am connecting to. I don't believe in a creator of the universe, I believe that evolution has pretty well got us to the point we are today. As for how life began, I haven't the foggiest idea. Its a one off thing, and probably no more exciting than a fart bubble in a 3 billion year old pool of goo.

 

Does praying, (meditating, chanting?), to a yet unexplained force, make me a theist? I feel confused and dishonest everytime I do it.

 

In the course of time I believe we may find the answer inside our own physical brains. The savant(?) in The Rainman, supposedly had the "ability" to memorize a phone book in a single reading. I don't know how accurate that is, but it seems to suggest untapped "abilities" within ourselves. Is savantism(?), a mutation like Down Syndrome which I believe is, (2 extra chromezones or something?). If it is I can certianly understand how aquiring photographic memorey could be good for our species, or not...jeez, sorry I'm rambling on, but I'm not used to putting my thoughts down on a keypad.

 

No offense taken by you being a realist HanSolo, I don't need there to be a god, I just want to know what there is.

 

A praying atheist, no wonder I'm confused.

Well if you need to do it as part of the program you're in, rather than create a conflict like this, just recognize it for what it is and use it as a dedicated time for you to make a commitment to your goals/hopes. Instead an time of prayer to something "out there", make it a time of devotion to your goals. Sit down and say, write out what would be a "prayer", such as "I desire to overcome this detrimental behavior", and look at it and affirm to yourself, "I am commitmenting myself to this.". That's all that prayer really is. if the "device" of prayer is contrary to your beliefs, then you can just go straight to the heart of the matter bypass the device. No use making yourself feeling like a hypocrite. Guilt is often something that can drive one to drink, you know?

[par4dcourse]

Been there, done that. Even AA will tell you that belief in a big old guy in the sky isn't necessary, although it's slightly tongue in cheek.

I'm with Hans and A-man. It's a form of self-hypnosis and positive re-inforcement. If that works for you, no harm, no foul. Statistics say that AA is no more effective than any other method, but finding what works for you is the trick. I was in and out of AA for many years, but when my cardioligist said "quit drinking now or you'll be dead in a year", that did the trick. (Dry 2 1/2 years now.)