Insanity personified Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 explore around!!! but I found this article in particular to be amusing http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html lol @ the argument ad populous fallacy they use in number 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?Yeah, pretty much. Seriously though that kind of reasoning would lead one to believe that there would be a majority consensus on which god is the real one. But there isn't. More people don't believe in the Christian god than people who do. Same for any specific god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.... 2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it. ... 3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations. ... 4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God. ... 5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life. proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them. I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England." Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me. 6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us. Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. ... What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing. ... If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can. This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."13 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen." I just had to leave all of question 5 and that part of 6. It's just too good. (Wow! Jesus claimed to be equal to "god" when those others you mentioned didn't? Well, shit, I'm sold! No. Wait. I'm equal to GOD and this jesus fellow! No. I'm superior to them. Bow to me fools!) I also like the end. You see, "god" is pursuing us. It really is. Chasing us down like some crazed driver and if we'd only stand still he'd smoosh us all over his front grill and windshield with all that love he has for us. It's truly beautiful when you think about it. Our guts splayed all over his glory wagon o' love. Brings a tear to my eye. The thing is even though I'm told this "god" is pursuing me, as it turns out, I have to apparently say some magic spell that seems to make me the pursuer of the "god." Let me put it another way. I'm told "god" is pursuing me and then I'm told that "god" is standing at the door knocking and now I have to go open this door and invite it in. Why not say that "god" is down the block on the left and I have to go down there to retrieve him? One second I'm in the holy cross-hairs and the next I'm answering some pesky door-to-door salesman? And I'm kissing his ass for bothering me at home? Not likely. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'd like to know if god was pursuing us and wanted to be found, why does he need his followers to prove his existence to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanity personified Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'd like to know if god was pursuing us and wanted to be found, why does he need his followers to prove his existence to us? I've always wondered this myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'd like to know if god was pursuing us and wanted to be found, why does he need his followers to prove his existence to us? Exactly. I brought that question up a couple of times too in discussion with Christians, but I never get an answer. If it's so evident that God exists and Jesus is the son of God, and yada yada, then... what's the need to debate or discuss these topics at all? Why all the books with arguments? Why have Christian literature explaining things, if the Holy Spirit can give all the answers? Well, the Holy Spirit tells me right now, it's because he doesn't exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanetal Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 MWC said: "You see, "god" is pursuing us. It really is. Chasing us down like some crazed driver and if we'd only stand still he'd smoosh us all over his front grill and windshield with all that love he has for us. It's truly beautiful when you think about it. Our guts splayed all over his glory wagon o' love. Brings a tear to my eye. The thing is even though I'm told this "god" is pursuing me, as it turns out, I have to apparently say some magic spell that seems to make me the pursuer of the "god." Let me put it another way. I'm told "god" is pursuing me and then I'm told that "god" is standing at the door knocking and now I have to go open this door and invite it in. Why not say that "god" is down the block on the left and I have to go down there to retrieve him? One second I'm in the holy cross-hairs and the next I'm answering some pesky door-to-door salesman? And I'm kissing his ass for bothering me at home? Not likely." Lol MWC - loved your comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Lol MWC - loved your comments! Ack! Somebody actually reads my ramblings. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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