Saint Regan

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I'm curious, why is it that fundies act as if Ronald Regan was some kind of saint (ditto for young republicans)? I'm sure he was a nice man to his friends and family, but he helped get Saddam Hussen into power, put the country into debt, gave tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor, turned his nose at the aids crisis, thought trees caused polution, nor did he stop communism in Russia all by himself. I know part of the reason was that he was a total ass-pony for the religious right, but why exalt this man? Young Rebulicans are just as bad, but how can they support a man who was more concerned with the rich than anyone else and screwed with the deficit?

It makes me sick how some of the most corrupt, idiotic, useless, and\or unkind people are hailed heroes while caring people like Jimmy Carter who continued to do good works (like build houses for Habit for Humanity) after his presidentcy are looked down upon.

[Thurisaz]

He was as bad as they want to be?

[Libertus]

Yeah. I don't get it either. I got caught up in the hoopla when he died because it was all we watched for weeks, and because he was the president that I remembered during my early school years. I am not a big fan of the reagan politics.

 

You're certainly right about Carter. I pretty much detest all politicians, but that guy, though a little whacky on the religious side, is just a genuinely good guy, I think. He certainly deserves more attention and recognition! I still haven't gotten over the W being voted #1 American of all time thing. Insanity!!!

 

Libertus

[Fweethawt]

Saint Reagan?

 

Saint Reagan?!?

 

Are you talking about the same President who everyone thought was the anti-christ because he had six letters in each part of his name?

 

Ronald = 6

Wilson = 6

Reagan = 6

 

 

The dude was the devil, not a saint!

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Saint Reagan?

 

Saint Reagan?!?

 

i]The dude was the devil, not a saint![/i]   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude, I'm mocking him with that title.

[Fweethawt]

I know that.

 

I was just passing on some information that I

remember hearing back when I was in 5th or

6th grade. That's all.

[Biggles7268]

lol

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I still haven't gotten over the W being voted #1 American of all time thing.  Insanity!!!

Libertus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WTF?!!! Who the hell voted for that braindead asshole? Was that from a magazine? FDR, any of our founding fathers, Johnny Cash, Bartcop, JFK, RFK, Bill Hicks, Martin Luther King Jr., Hugh Hefner now those were real Americans. They cared, had spirit and showed what American should be about: fairness, the power of a strong spirit, empathy, hope, passion, individuality and the ability to stand up for justice.

[Vigile]

I still haven't gotten over the W being voted #1 American of all time thing.  Insanity!!!

 

Libertus

 

Did I miss something?

 

I've been away from the US for a while now.

[Vigile]

nor did he stop communism in Russia all by himself. 

 

To say he stopped communism is a rewrite of history. Low oil prices and a Russian gerentocracy played a much larger role than Reagan's military spending ever could have.

[Guest Priapus]

Love him or hate him, do it for the right reasons. Ronald Reagan pushed for the arms race which effectively defeated the Soviets who could not keep up. It bankrupted them and put them out of business. The technologies involved yielded much of the Goodness we enjoy today. At the time I was a Kooky Liberal Kid in San Francisco and knee-jerked some war-monger accusations at the mention of RWR's name. That, and reeled off the standard gags about ketchup as a vegetable and trees making pollution. It's fun to mock power.

 

He backed Saddam because at the time he was new, modern, and most importantly was the Sworn Enemy of the prototype Moslem Fundamentalists who'd just taken over Iran. Remember that in the early 1980's, anyone who'd go fuck with Iran was A-OK with us. Sure, it's short-sighted, like crawling in bed with Stalin ended up giving Eastern Europe to the communists for 50 years, but you do what you gotta do at the time.

 

Nor was he in bed with the Religious Right, as is George the Younger. Remember too, that his presidency started around the time the whole Fundy Jesus movement was getting off the ground. Falwell and the Religious Right were just starting with the doctrine of Dominionism and they saw a strong conservative president as an entry. But Reagan never sucked up to them and played the "mandate of heaven" card that George the Younger does. Reagan was Ol' Skool Conservative where the agenda was about strengthening the US position politically through military strength and economically through fiscal policy. Sure, there's a whole debate about social responsibility and the efficacy of such policy, but there was none of the social agenda, the Ashcroftian Morality, in the Reagan Whitehouse.

 

 

"I've just declared the Soviet Union illegal. We begin bombing in five minutes."

[Vigile]

Love him or hate him, do it for the right reasons. Ronald Reagan pushed for the arms race which effectively defeated the Soviets who could not keep up. It bankrupted them and put them out of business. The technologies involved yielded much of the Goodness we enjoy today.

 

 

I have to partially disagree with you here. Arms race contributed to bankruptcy, but it only played a role, and was not the whole ball of wax. The Soviet Union could not keep up with the arms race, nor could they maintain their own closed economy because oil prices were dropping in the late 80s. Russian oil is more expensive to extricate than is Saudi sweet crude. The USSR had been supporting their closed system, which was not self sustained, by selling commodities such as oil. When oil prices moved down to the point that it was selling oil near cost something had to give. Add to this the fact that leadership was a group of old men left over from the Stalinist purges (the results of his methods left only a small group of sycophants at the top) and stability of the union was very weak at the time (i.e., Gorbachev was the youngest of the group and he only came to power after two other leaders [Andropov and ???] quickly died following the death of Brezhnev).

 

The point of this diatribe is that the reasons for the soviet colapse aren't so cut and dry as Reagan supporters wish to believe.

[Vigile]

He backed Saddam because at the time he was new, modern, and most importantly was the Sworn Enemy of the prototype Moslem Fundamentalists who'd just taken over Iran. Remember that in the early 1980's, anyone who'd go fuck with Iran was A-OK with us. Sure, it's short-sighted, like crawling in bed with Stalin ended up giving Eastern Europe to the communists for 50 years, but you do what you gotta do at the time.

 

Innocent question: Do you know if he provided the weapons of mass destruction (gas) that he used on the Kurds? My background on the ME is much weaker than Russia.

 

Nor was he in bed with the Religious Right, as is George the Younger. ."

 

All too true. In fact I believe there is a bit of a fued betwen the Reagan camp and W right now. I recall that some of this came out with Nancy during Reagan's funeral week.

[Guest Priapus]

I dunno if Reagan's people gave Saddam the poison gas or not. Could be. No doubt he had evil shits working for him (ie. Oliver North) who wouldn't have been above doing such things.

 

And sure, simple military spending grossly oversimplifies the collapse of the USSR, but it was an important factor.

 

 

It was indeed fun to watch the Reagan family tear into the George the Younger camp at the election and the funeral. I know many people who were lifelong Republicans until 2000 when Bush & Co re-organized the whole thing. Now they moan and wail, "What happened to my party!?"

[Libertus]

WTF?!!!  Who the hell voted for that braindead asshole?  Was that from a magazine?  FDR, any of our founding fathers, Johnny Cash, Bartcop, JFK, RFK, Bill Hicks, Martin Luther King Jr., Hugh Hefner now those were real Americans.  They cared, had spirit and showed what American should be about: fairness, the power of a strong spirit, empathy, hope, passion, individuality and the ability to stand up for justice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry. This is my bust. I must have been loopy that day. He wasn't number 1. That honor fell to our present topic of convo, Saint Reagan, who beat out Abraham Lincoln by less than half a percent. But W did still make the list. There are a lot of dumbasses in the good ole' USofA. Clinton made the list too, which doesn't make anything better. Whether you like Bill or not, does he really qualify to be on a list of the Top 25 Greatest Americans of all time!? I don't think so.

 

Here's the top 10 list:

 

1. Ronald Reagan 24.00%

2. Abraham Lincoln 23.66%

3. Martin L. King, Jr. 19.70%

4. George Washington 17.70%

5. Benjamin Franklin 14.90%

6. George W. Bush WTF!?!?

7. Bill Clinton WTF!?!?

8. Elvis Presley WTF!?!?

9. Oprah Winfrey WTF!?!?

10. Franklin Roosevelt WTF!?!? Shouldn't he be a bit higher than Clinton and George f*ing Bush!?!?

 

This is from a Discovery Channel special hosted by Matt Lauer.

 

Libertus

[Vigile]

Here's the top 10 list:

 

1. Ronald Reagan 24.00%

2. Abraham Lincoln 23.66%

3. Martin L. King, Jr. 19.70%

4. George Washington 17.70%

5. Benjamin Franklin 14.90%

6. George W. Bush WTF!?!?

7. Bill Clinton WTF!?!?

8. Elvis Presley WTF!?!?

9. Oprah Winfrey WTF!?!?

10.  Franklin Roosevelt  WTF!?!?  Shouldn't he be a bit higher than Clinton and George f*ing Bush!?!?

 

This is from a Discovery Channel special hosted by Matt Lauer.

 

Libertus

 

 

Mind if I add a couple of WTF's?

 

1. Ronald Reagan 24.00% WTF????

2. Abraham Lincoln 23.66%

3. Martin L. King, Jr. 19.70%

4. George Washington 17.70% Whatever. He was the first. What has he done for us lately?

5. Benjamin Franklin 14.90% Reagan beat out BF? WTFF? (first F = Friken!)

6. George W. Bush WTF!?!? On the list. WTF? #6 on the list? WTFF?

7. Bill Clinton WTF!?!?

8. Elvis Presley WTF!?!?

9. Oprah Winfrey WTF!?!?

10. Franklin Roosevelt WTF!?!? Shouldn't he be a bit higher than Clinton and George f*ing Bush!?!?

[John]

To say he stopped communism is a rewrite of history. Low oil prices and a Russian gerentocracy played a much larger role than Reagan's military spending ever could have.

 

Ronald Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot. LOL! Yes, we all know there were inner troubles, i.e., the lowered worldwide cost of crude oil and impuissance in communism. Gorbachev also played an important role in the disintegration of the Soviet bloc.

 

Likewise, command economies cannot contend against market economies in an arms race, so Reagan attempted to make the Cold War economically raging. He had pressured the Soviets to dedicate more of their economic resources to defense.

 

Innocent question: Do you know if he provided the weapons of mass destruction (gas) that he used on the Kurds? My background on the ME is much weaker than Russia.

 

Well, the American concern was that an Iranian triumph would give encouragement to Muslim fundamentalists in other Arab states, i.e., contributing to the termination of secular regimes in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait.

 

The U.S. did offer financial aid and intelligence info to the Iraqi regime. The incumbency as well permitted the loading of some biological, dual use materials and chemicals. However, they were hived off to use in Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction programs, though most Iraqi implements of war were provided by Britain, France, the USSR and Germany.

 

Here is an article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...9&notFound=true