Alice Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I'm being really challenged at the moment by the number of assumptions I still make and how, eventhough, on many levels I know that people 'see' things differently depending on their knowledge and experience, I react as though their different viewpoint needs correcting or threatens mine own in some way. I'm on a break from work at the moment and have jsut spent a delicious few days immersed in some books I wanted to read and listenng to clips on the TED website, all following a theme of challenging myself to really take my head knowledge that people 'see' things differently to heart. I found this really impacting ... it's an extract from a speech given by Karen Armstrong, I found some astonishing things in the course of my study that had never occurred to me. Frankly, in the days that when I thought I'd had it with religion, I just found the whole thing absolutely incredible. These doctrines seemed unproven, abstract, and, to my astonishment, when I began seriously studying other traditions, I began to realize that belief, which we make such a fuss about today, is only a very recent religious enthusiasm. It surfaced only in the West, in about the 17th century. The word "belief" itself originally meant to love, to prize, to hold dear. In the 17th century it narrowed its focus, for reasons that I'm exploring in a book I'm writing at the moment, to include -- to mean an intellectual ascent to a set of propositions -- a credo. I believe did not mean "I accept certain creedal articles of faith." It meant, "I commit myself. I engage myself." Indeed, some of the world traditions think very little of religious orthodoxy. In the Qur'an, religious opinion -- religious orthodoxy -- is dismissed as zanna -- self-indulgent guesswork about matters that nobody can be certain of one way or the other but which makes people quarrelsome and stupidly sectarian http://blog.ted.com/2008/03/karen_armstrong_1.php This just set me thinking again about the danger of seeing things that belong to another mindset, through our own. My own conclusion is that this is what is problematic about religion today ~ that the words of earlier times have been 'understood' through a modernistic mindset and this mix has given birth to the religious thinking that is so apparent today. Do other people have any idea's how the different ways of thinking can be bridged? This seems so key to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Thanks for starting this thread Alice. I am curious to see in what directions it may go. Personally, I suspect that bridging the gap requires the willingness of all parties to reassess our own cherished notions of what it means to “know” and what, how or why we “know”. And I also think most people are impatient with this kind of thing and reluctant to do it. I once thought that I understood some things, and then I ran into some work that challenged all of my assumptions and personally held dogma. I am still in the process of trying to recover. For these assumptions were the bedrock for dreams and aspirations. When the foundations went, so too went the promises. I do think that a recognition that no one viewpoint is THE viewpoint helps. I do think that a sincere effort to empathize with and understand one another helps. But I also think that bridging the gap between mind sets requires the uncomfortable proposition of jettisoning some of our own cherished notions. Continuing with the analogy (because analogies can be powerful aids to understanding), if we wish to erect this bridge then I strongly suspect that the ground on both sides must first be prepared. And this preparation may require some extensive blasting and bulldozing. In a different vein, it may require that we become like children again. Just a few thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 My own conclusion is that this is what is problematic about religion today ~ that the words of earlier times have been 'understood' through a modernistic mindset and this mix has given birth to the religious thinking that is so apparent today. Do other people have any idea's how the different ways of thinking can be bridged? This seems so key to me ... Knowledge through education. For myself, what broken down the walls of idealisms was the study of Church history, how differently people saw things in the past, how they related to the world differently, etc. Now I add to this understanding the influence of culture, philosophy, art, and all other factors that contribute to how people understand the world. Everyone filters what the perceive through all these influences, and make this leap of logic to assume that how they see it is in fact, factual. That the truth is "obvious". But that's what everyone has always thought, yet always and ever there is change in perception and what is called truth. What breaks down the walls and builds bridges? Holding our ideas lightly with open hands, as opposed to clutching them tightly, taking our ideas as the only way of seeing things. Doing this allows a greater understanding for ourselves of the world we find ourselves in, and honors and respects the others place and ideas in the world. To me, if there is any universal truth, it is our humanity. And as part of that is single desire to connect with the world we are part of through whatever limited means we have at the time. Each means offers a different perspective on the experience of being human, and each perspective contains a "truth". In short, we learn through history, through looking at ourselves to not take ourselves and our ideas as ultimate truths. In doing this, we gain humility, and through this we gain wisdom, and through this we become more than ourselves by including understandings of ourselves and the world through the unique souls of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 A slight aside LR, I once thought that I understood some things, and then I ran into some work that challenged all of my assumptions and personally held dogma. I am still in the process of trying to recover. For these assumptions were the bedrock for dreams and aspirations. When the foundations went, so too went the promises. What a poignant and beautifully penned paragraph. Knowledge through education. For myself, what broken down the walls of idealisms was the study of Church history, how differently people saw things in the past, how they related to the world differently, etc. Now I add to this understanding the influence of culture, philosophy, art, and all other factors that contribute to how people understand the world. Everyone filters what the perceive through all these influences, and make this leap of logic to assume that how they see it is in fact, factual. That the truth is "obvious". But that's what everyone has always thought, yet always and ever there is change in perception and what is called truth. What breaks down the walls and builds bridges? Holding our ideas lightly with open hands, as opposed to clutching them tightly, taking our ideas as the only way of seeing things. Doing this allows a greater understanding for ourselves of the world we find ourselves in, and honors and respects the others place and ideas in the world. To me, if there is any universal truth, it is our humanity. And as part of that is single desire to connect with the world we are part of through whatever limited means we have at the time. Each means offers a different perspective on the experience of being human, and each perspective contains a "truth". In short, we learn through history, through looking at ourselves to not take ourselves and our ideas as ultimate truths. In doing this, we gain humility, and through this we gain wisdom, and through this we become more than ourselves by including understandings of ourselves and the world through the unique souls of others. I feel like the time has come for me to do something that demonstrates to others that I hold my own idea's lightly, for me this has been mostly a head knowledge or just a shared with friends knowledge, does truly holding onto our idea's lightly and honouring the idea's of others mean also lightly taking hold of other idea's? I feel the need to take bridge building on in a more active way ~ although I want to do it sustainably without the bulldozer (to continue the analogy, although I think I know what you mean LR, that it will require deconstruction ...) We need more bridge building memes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Alice I love Karen Armstrong and I love that site. Have spent much time there. I believe we are seeing change at a very fast pace. It seems to me that the bridge building is happening! It seems to me that we are seeing how the old ways dont work and realizing that we are worth making the effort to see change and to become change. I love what Ghandi said 'We must be the change we wish to see in the world'. I love how you talked about not holding things too tightly. I have found that when I learned to do that a whole world opened up to me! great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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