Revelation 'end-times' Prophesies About A One World Government

[WonderPat]

I think we all know that the idea of a One World Government and the words 'New World Order' and 'United Nations' have been thrown around by various high ranking politicians for years. Of course, Revelation prophecies a One World Government coming together and making way for the anti-Christ. Naturally, a myriad of fundamentalist Christians have done everything in their power to 'expose' the One World Government and form their arguments in such a way that blames the Masons, the Jews, Pagans, Harry Potter, Hollwood, etc. There are currently a lot of websites, videos, books, and popular music albums (such as the new Megadeth) floating around nowadays attempting to prove or argue that everything in Revelation is being fulfilled and all the end-times prophecies are coming together for the One World Government to happen. Here's is just a sample:

 

Independent KJV-Only Fundamentalist Texe Marrs's 'The Power of Prophecy' website (He is also the author of many books about the end-times, occultism, signs and symbols of Satan, etc.) -

 

www.texemarrs.com

 

Independent KJV- Only Fundamentalist Baptist David J. Stewart's 'Jesus Is Savior' website -

 

www.jesus-is-savior.com

 

Infamous conspiracy theorist and Christian Alex Jones' various websites -

 

www.infowars.com

www.prisonplanet.com

 

Abdullam Films, a Christian ministry specializing in 'exposing' occultism and evil in the media, Hollywood, popular music, etc and also in 'proving' end-times conspiracy theories -

 

www.adullamfilms.org

 

Megiddo: The March to Armageddon [a film that explores the evils of Government, Masonry, Music, The Occult, etc and which quotes numerous sources throughout history in order to argue the coming of a New World Order that fulfills the Revelation prophecy] - LINK

______

 

Those links serve as just a small taste of what's out there. Honestly, its all pretty scary. And even though I'm a Christian, I would probably feel a lot more comfortable if some people could give me a secular point of view on all of this, and/or perhaps help debunk a lot of it.

 

I really hope this thread opens up a lot of discussion. I will routinely be voicing a lot of my concerns/fears here, and talking about a lot of the things I heard while being knee deep in extreme fundamentalism (I am now a more liberal Christian, recovering from that kind of spiritual/psychological abuse). For example, I remember hearing on the Alex Jones show that they'd uncovered documents about the United Nations' plans to instill a new type of legal system, where you are judged by three judges (no jury of peers), and in order to be set free, all three judges have to declare you innocent. If two judges think you're innocent, but one does not, you will be retried. But if two think you're guilty, and one thinks you're innocent. Then you're declared guilty. Of course, this is just an example. I have no idea of the validity of this, its just the kind of 'scary stuff' that I always here floating around in the 'end times' circles.

 

Okay, please talk and discuss away.

[Ouroboros]

There was a one-world government already. The Roman empire was considered the "whole" world at the time, and the "other" societies weren't part of the "world." And there has been other empires, and there will be new ones, and they will fall, just the like the old ones, and new ones will rise... not scary... it's just the cycle of social structure.

[chefranden]

The UN takes over the world?

 

Holy buckets of shit, the UN doesn't have the power to take a piss without Washington's permission let alone rule the world. Cross that one off your list.

[Vigile]

End times prophesy is a paradigm that is really not even clearly outlined in the bible; not that the bible is any source of truth IMO. It requires a broad interpretation of mainly Rev and Dan and also requires a friendly, eager and unquestioning audience.

 

People naturally create patterns where none actually exist. If you and I were sitting on the porch and I looked to the clouds above I could tell you, look at that cloud over there, it looks just like a cat. More than likely, you would see the cat too. This is a natural phenomena and weird idiosyncracy of the human brain that allows us to see in randomness familiar patterns if we want to.

 

End times proponents rely on this human trait to a very large degree. Lindsey, for example, would interpret Daniel's 13 headed dragon as the European Union. That's a bit of a stretch wouldn't you say? Especially given the fact that there are now more than 13 states in the union.

 

I've seen many such claims that use some of the odder and more fantastic writings in Rev and Dan that attempt to find modern Apache helicopters, modern systems of credit, etc..., etc... (finding patterns in the random, descriptive, yet fantastic writings of these two books) These interpretations all depend on the power of suggestion and are backed by no other evidence than conjecture. But put together, they all create what is now a common paradigm within certain xian sects. Once the paradigm is accepted as truth it's very difficult to look at these passages that were aribitrarily applied with any degree of objectivity.

 

Try reading Dan and Rev without any preconceived ideas about what they mean. If you are honest with yourself you will see that those who interpret these for you have taken quite a large stretch as they patched together quite a fanstastic story for you.

 

Hope this helps.

[RevOxley_501]

im still developing my thought on this, at one point i was convinced of alot of this...now i think i understand it in a different way now...i will hit this tommorow

[mwc]

Okay, please talk and discuss away.

You haven't really given anything to discuss. I'm not really in the mood to read all those websites. As far as I'm concerned the whole thing is crap and those people are silly. The discussion kind of ends there. If you have something more specific then I'm willing to look into that.

 

For example. You mentioned one world government. Okay. Very quickly. All xians WANT one world government. How so? They want their "god" to come down, kill his/their "enemies," setup a 1500 mile clear gold cube city and rule from there. What happens when the xians get their way? Mass slaughter. A slaughter on a scale that has never been seen in the history of the planet. Why? Because they, for some reason, have the selfish desire to have a "perfect" place to live. Meaning they're tired of sharing this "imperfect" world with those they deem "worse" than them and if those people won't change then they need to go "away." If you seriously find this to be the "perfect" solution then maybe, just maybe, you'd fear the one world government where you think you might be on the "wrong" end of things. Don't you think? So even though xians want a "cleansing" they don't wish to be "cleansed" even when "heaven," and a resurrection to a "new earth" is just around the corner. Weird.

 

The good news is that Revelation is long over with and the "future" within it got it wrong anyhow. It contained imperfect people after the "second death" (they just aren't allowed in the city). Even when "god" rules it has rulers over other nations which should not be all things considered. Something is wrong there. People don't read the "vision" properly.

 

mwc

[Skankboy]

For example. You mentioned one world government. Okay. Very quickly. All xians WANT one world government.

:whs:

 

This is something I've never understood in the Christian mindset. On one hand they can't seem to get the Rapture to come quickly enough and on another they do everything they can to avert and/or delay it.

 

What's the deal?

[ogilvy]

im still developing my thought on this, at one point i was convinced of alot of this...now i think i understand it in a different way now...i will hit this tommorow

if we get those barcodes on our wrists or foreheads it'll make revelation look a bit credible.

[Jeff H]

if we get those barcodes on our wrists or foreheads it'll make revelation look a bit credible.

 

I, for one, have never understood the logistics of getting a barcode on your forehead. I mean, wrists/hands I can understand, but foreheads? With all the self-conscious people in the world, and all the public outcry about just being advertising "targets" - who the heck would ever want to get a barcode on their forehead? That's like saying, "Look at me, I'm for sale, and I want to show eeeeeeveryone how stupid I look."

 

I'm sure fashion models would love to get barcodes on their foreheads...or on their wrists, for that matter...

[Ouroboros]

im still developing my thought on this, at one point i was convinced of alot of this...now i think i understand it in a different way now...i will hit this tommorow

if we get those barcodes on our wrists or foreheads it'll make revelation look a bit credible.

I don't know. It says it has to be the number 666. And first of all the barcode would be your personal identification, i.e. your number, and not three big digits, all saying "6". And the explanation that the three separator codes in the bar code are 6-es is actually wrong. Number six is line-line-space, and number three is line-space-line, and the separator is line-line. So it's either a 2/3rds six, or a 2/3rds three. Therefore, the bar code can't be the mark of the beast.

[par4dcourse]

Revalation should be subtitled "a book of dreams." Pure fantasy to rival Lewis Carrol.

One world order? Hell, two countries can't even agree on the proper way to fuck up a third.

[Ouroboros]

Revalation should be subtitled "a book of dreams." Pure fantasy to rival Lewis Carrol.

Or the "book of mushroom dreams."

 

It's very likely that the author were writing under influence. The stories sounds like drug induced hallucinations.

[BlueGiant]

A lot of the end times stuff is cobbled together from peoples thoughts and traditions, little of it has anything to do with what is found in Revelation (The Apocalypse of Saint John, if you prefer).

 

Predicting the time and what will happen is futile, especially since even the Bible states that no one knows when things go boom (and then there is the whole thing about adding or subtracting things from it...). Moreover, it seems that the most useful pieces of Christianity have to do with living with people in the here and now.

 

The three judges thing is something out of the US legal system. Sounds like it was a grafted knockoff, kind of like Hell (a cheap version of Hel, spiced with a bit of Tartarus-sauce).

[ogilvy]

if we get those barcodes on our wrists or foreheads it'll make revelation look a bit credible.

 

I, for one, have never understood the logistics of getting a barcode on your forehead. I mean, wrists/hands I can understand, but foreheads? With all the self-conscious people in the world, and all the public outcry about just being advertising "targets" - who the heck would ever want to get a barcode on their forehead? That's like saying, "Look at me, I'm for sale, and I want to show eeeeeeveryone how stupid I look."

 

I'm sure fashion models would love to get barcodes on their foreheads...or on their wrists, for that matter...

 

sorry i didnt mean barcodes, i meant micro chips under the skin, on the forehead or wrist, would be a prophecy of revelationcoming true?

[centauri]

Those links serve as just a small taste of what's out there. Honestly, its all pretty scary. And even though I'm a Christian, I would probably feel a lot more comfortable if some people could give me a secular point of view on all of this, and/or perhaps help debunk a lot of it.

 

If you're worried about the Book of Revelation being accurate and true, this might help:

Rev 1:1-3

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

"Things that MUST shortly come to pass"..."the time is at hand".

Not even close to being accurate.

So much for divine inspiration, better luck next time John.

 

... I have no idea of the validity of this, its just the kind of 'scary stuff' that I always here floating around in the 'end times' circles.

 

Well, the fact that the prediction is about 2,000 years old and still unfulfilled, despite claiming that these things MUST shortly come to pass is a big tipoff that it cannot be trusted anymore than any other end times prediction.

Modern new age gurus have been predicting the "shift of the ages" for decades now.

The 2012 prediction of a grand ascension is in full swing now, so there's still time to hop on that popular bandwagon.

I'm sure new age gurus and Christian prophecy preachers are making lots of money selling this stuff to people.

Personally, I don't care if the world ended tomorrow. Good riddance to it.

I certainly won't miss right wing talk radio, Christian preaching, new age gibberish, government lies, corporate advertising, or slimy pandering politicans.

[Vigile]

im still developing my thought on this, at one point i was convinced of alot of this...now i think i understand it in a different way now...i will hit this tommorow

if we get those barcodes on our wrists or foreheads it'll make revelation look a bit credible.

 

It's actually quite a leap to jump from "mark" to "barcode." This is an example of what I was saying in my post above. End timers have created a paradigm using selective interpretation of the virtual nonsense in Dan and Rev.

[Vigile]

It says it has to be the number 666.

 

Does it? It says 666 is the mark of the beast and then elsewhere it says that people will be marked. I understood that the beast's own mark was 666, not that everyone would be marked that number.

[Jeff H]

"Things that MUST shortly come to pass"..."the time is at hand".

Not even close to being accurate.

So much for divine inspiration, better luck next time John.

 

Actually, I know that there is a school of thought that says basically that John was speaking in a sort of "code" about current events that were happening. Some of the stuff, like "seven hills" refers to Rome, and I think the dragon is supposed to represent Nero. At any rate, I haven't really looked at it in detail or anything, but at the very least, if that's true it at least gives John a better track record...doesn't say much for today's apocalyptic preachers though

[Ouroboros]

sorry i didnt mean barcodes, i meant micro chips under the skin, on the forehead or wrist, would be a prophecy of revelationcoming true?

 

 

Like all "prophesies", they're not very detailed.

 

Mark on forhead or hand=Chip under skin

Number of the Beast=Universal Identification Number

Can't Shop or Trade=Credit Card

 

But it can be interpreted this way too:

 

Mark on forhead or hand = your attitude or belief, (your thought and your actions)

Number of the Beast = ideology, belief, of a false religious/political system

Can't Shop or Trade = your forced to be a believer of that religious/political system

 

So which interpretation is the real one? Both works.

[mwc]

I posted these verses in his into thread but I'll repost (most) of them here since they're relevant:

 

7:2 - And I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the mark of the living God: and he said with a great voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to do damage to the earth and the sea,

 

7:3 - Do no damage to the earth, or the sea, or the trees, till we have put a mark on the servants of our God.

 

7:4 - And there came to my ears the number of those who had the mark on their brows, a hundred and forty-four thousand, who were marked out of every tribe of the people of Israel.

 

9:4 - And they were ordered to do no damage to the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only to such men as have not the mark of God on their brows.

 

13:16 - And he gives to all, small and great, the poor and those who have wealth, the free and those who are not free, a mark on their right hand or on their brows;

 

13:17 - So that no man might be able to do trade but he who has the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

So what could the "mark" be? Since Jews are getting "marked" the "mark" can't be physical like a tattoo since YHWH forbade those way back in Leviticus. That sort of mutilation makes it so a person can't get to the temple and to YHWH. No Jews would have written any of that down and thought it to be a good thing (xians or not...round about the time this was written the xians were still following Torah law depending on what sect they were in and since Revelation speaks on being judged by works instead of Paul's "saved by grace" it's pretty clear these aren't Pauline xians). Mutilations are out. No tattoos. No castrations. None of the commonly thought of ideas.

 

These three verses (though the two in Exodus are basically identical so I'm only showing one) are used to reference tefillin:

"Exodus 13:9 And this will be for a sign to you on your hand and for a mark on your brow, so that the law of the Lord may be in your mouth: for with a strong hand the Lord took you out of Egypt." (repeated in v16)

 

"Deuteronomy 6:8 Let them be fixed as a sign on your hand, and marked on your brow;"

 

I posted a link on how to tie them in the other thread but the above link is to a Dead Sea Scroll where it shows a sample of what was inside the tefillin itself (a little scripture scroll). These things were placed on the right arm (hand) or the forehead (possibly other places but the above verses show where this idea of the placement of the "mark" in Revelation originated and Jews would have no problem wearing these tefillin as the DSS discovery reveals though the DSS is slightly late for our use here).

 

If we choose to ignore all the above explanation and go with the "implanted chip" we're still left with the problem of time line.

 

In the first part of the story "god" is doing the marking but in the latter part of the story it is the "beast" that is doing it.

 

This is important to note since it changes how you should view the entire issue.

 

Everyone tends to only focus on the beast doing the markings. As a result people kick, scream, yell and run away from the "mark." But "god" going first means that xians should *want* to be marked when this whole thing begins to happen. There's room for only 144,000 Jews in this "marking" party. The "servants of god" are actually delaying the "return" by not getting "marked" (v7:3). Being "marked" will protect them from whatever happens in v9:4 after all. Again, this is something that they should *want* but they don't. Xians simply do not understand Revelation.

 

I think I've dealt with both physical marks (ie. tattoos, mutilations) and "hidden" marks (ie. implants) so far. The evidence simply doesn't support it. Neither of those work.

 

So what about "spiritual" marks? The hand is your actions and the forehead is your thoughts. The time line shows that "god" wants nothing done until there is a "mark" on his servants. The "mark" is unspecified. Then only Jews are mentioned as having any sort of "mark." No xians. Then bad things happen but not to people that "think good thoughts about god?" I say that because only the "brow" is mentioned. Deeds don't matter here?

 

The problem really is down in the "beast" verses. The "beast" is limited in power. He's basically just a man. Even if he's the "son" the devil it's "common knowledge" the devil doesn't read minds (stay with me since I'm well aware the bible speaks on none of this but it seems that this is the most widely accepted view). So, in 13:16 the "beast" gives people the marks on the hand and brow. How does he give a person thoughts and actions? In the next verse there is an unspecified "mark" but if it's "thought" then how could he read minds being mere "mortal?" If it's actions then where's the problem? We have that rule today. You work in the name of a person or thing (ie. employer, country, etc.) and you get to do "trade" in return.

 

Rather than "spiritual" it might be better to say this is simply a battle for your hearts, minds and body. Your "freedom." But our society has already moved away from the ancient individual making and selling his goods to the larger corporate and/or state controlled entity. The person writing this didn't want his independent state taken over by the larger entity. In this way the "revelation" has come true. But no "gods" have returned. And xians don't want him to. They like it this way. They don't understand their own story.

 

mwc

[Guest end3]

sorry i didnt mean barcodes, i meant micro chips under the skin, on the forehead or wrist, would be a prophecy of revelationcoming true?

 

 

Like all "prophesies", they're not very detailed.

 

Mark on forhead or hand=Chip under skin

Number of the Beast=Universal Identification Number

Can't Shop or Trade=Credit Card

 

But it can be interpreted this way too:

 

Mark on forhead or hand = your attitude or belief, (your thought and your actions)

Number of the Beast = ideology, belief, of a false religious/political system

Can't Shop or Trade = your forced to be a believer of that religious/political system

 

So which interpretation is the real one? Both works.

 

Obviously it the first set because they are "real"....make up your mind!

[Ouroboros]

Obviously it the first set because they are "real"....make up your mind!

Yeah, right, whatever... Actually, I have picked one. It's not a matter of me making up my mind, because I have. I believe the second interpretation is the one which the author intended. The first one is of the shock-based-theology from extremist Christians, and I think is false. And also considering that the first one require a more of a stretch to fit, while the second one fits into how some liberal Bible scholar interpret it.

 

You know, the more dedicated Jews have a little box, which is called: Tefilin. It contains parts of the Torah, and they wear it not only on their forehead during prayer, but on their left forearm! Is the light starting to turn on in your brain?

 

The previous post when I defined the second interpretation, that is how the Jews would have understood it 2,000 years ago. They would have understood the mark of the Beast as the religion or ideology of a totalitarian government, not a bar-code with 333 as markers, or a fish-chip with a 64 -bit GUID. Because that's the symbol it represents--the Tefilin.

 

End3, you have to go to the root of the material. Not to the shock-based-theology from the money-hungry-TV-preachers from the last 10 years. These preachers of Christianity are vultures, and they live on people's fear of the end-times. The more people fear the end of days, the more these poor victims are willing to sacrifice their last money or retirement funds, just to help that 300 lbs "pauper" preacher who only could afford nine Rollex watches and had to be satisfied with last year's Mercedes.

[Justin]

I'm sure we all have heard the stories of so and so's uncle or so and so's cousin's neighbors aunt's nephew's wife's best friend's roomate's dry clearner saying they went to the bank and couldn't make a transaction due to not having the proper code, which is 666. They go and ask the bank teller what the problem is and they reply, "oh sorry, this is something that we're working on". Years ago i remember one of my friends telling me this happend to someone his grandfather knew and believed every word of it. I have since heard it many times from other people's via there so and so's. I even think Snoopes had something on it at one time and they soundly debunked it.

[chefranden]

You know, the more dedicated Jews have a little box, which is called: Tefilin. It contains parts of the Torah, and they wear it not only on their forehead during prayer, but on their left forearm! Is the light starting to turn on in your brain?

 

And this is why they do it:

 

Deuteronomy 6

:6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

 

7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

 

8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

 

9And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

 

10And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,

[Ouroboros]

Yup. A "sign" upon the hand and between there eyes. This sign is a sign of dedication and commitment to their belief. In other words, the sign of the beast, is just another belief people would be committed to, not really a UPC code (especially not the kind you cut out and mail in for a rebate coupon). I found it rather ridiculous in the 80's when the UPC started to be used, and the fundamentalist started to scream about the mark of the beast. Who would want to have a code on their hand which said: you're 2 gallons of milk, produced at a farm somewhere in Riverside County, California?