Guest SerenityNow Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 [sBF] I would be interested to learn more about your god. Like, what do you call him/her/it? Is there a book of authority about him like the Bible, Quran, etc.? What is his character? Does he make promises? Does he promise life after death? How does he communicate with his believers? What hope does he give you? Thanks, Savedbyfaith I don't call the creator(s) anything, just a high power. No, there is not a book of authority, because men turn it into their book of authority and slap a god(s) name on it, including but not limited to the Judeo Christian Believers. Moral laws were established well before by other cultures before the Bible, the bible holds nothing new. Religious texts have been around for thousands of years and new ones are popping up all the time.... So many to choose from. Character? Why would a creator(s) need character? Besides your gods character is evil, monstrous, dispecable and deplorable. If I were to believe in religious text and their version of a supreme being, it most certainly wouldn't be yours....again. Promises? Why would a god need to make promises. I'd rather have a god not make promises, unlike your supposed deity who makes and breaks em' with mere human like excuses. No, there is no promise of life after death, but if there is one, great. Communicate? Why? Hope? Why does one need hope from a god? My hope rests in myself and in others. Yours rests in an unprovable deity that is no different than other deities, I prefer my hope much better. [sBF] I'm glad to see that you acknowledge Jesus is there. Who knows? Perhaps he will visit you and show you how wonderful he is :-) I'm not sure what your point is with these verses spoken by Jesus, but you may have to convince Thankful about prayer. She seems to think that her god will answer her. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First off, Lloyd did not acknowledge "jesus", dream on. As for me, I don't pray to any gods, my prayer was done mockingly and is about as meaningless as yours However, if people want to pray, that is their perogative, there certainly is no harm in it. Believing in a higher power requires no religious books nor customs. Living a good life is all that matters to me. Loving and enjoying friends, family, giving, helping people, that is what life is all about. Real simple and no evil, pathetic man/god/savior is required. You're statement here only shows ignorance, btw...... other "religious" people outside of Christianity, have healings, miracles, improved lifestyles too. Christianity is no better than any of those. Besides, miracles can be explained and happen across all lines of people. They give credit to their gods too. If anything, this would show that "god heals" no matter what religion or lack thereof that someone has. If your Jesus did exist, the one who threatens hell; I would have happily spit on him, he is pure evil for mentioning such a place whether he meant it or not. If he exists, I'd rather fry in hell for unbelief than worhip such a monster. However, he isn't an authority because he isn't the Messiah, I'm really not consumed or scared with disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Well said Thankful! As a lifelong Deist (never was anything else, likewise my father and grandpa) I hold virtually the same beliefs as you do. We are the wave of the future as far as religion goes (although ours is more a philosophy than a religion). On another website, in their rather contentious thread on Spirituality and Skepticism, the comment was once made that some time in the future they (the skeptics) would be refuting Deism instead of the long dead Christ Cult! My comment was, "Yeah, we will be quoting from the Gospel of St. Consummate Deist! That is one of the major Deists on the website! - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Thankful: why? (sorry, I don't get it) - why believe in any creator at all? What's the point? - and what do you base your faith on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dreamer Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Thankful, I'm a Deist as well and believe similarly to what you believe and I'm happy that I'm not the only one on this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hi, Thankful and Dreamer. I read your answer to Mythra, Thankful, and I don't mind if you have nothing to add to what you said to him. After that long Knowledge thread, though, I have thought about deism more than before. Is one of your reasons the question of who/what jump-started the universe, or brought the first living things to life? Maybe another kind of deism might be something like Aristotle's, though I dunno -- for him God thinks only of himself because he is perfect and cannot think of imperfect things like the world. God doesn't act outward toward a creation (Ari believed in subordinate first movers for different levels of reality, but each one is "desired" by the beings on its level. Aristotle believed the universe, matter and even species are eternal, so he didn't believe in a creator god). Instead, God is the first good, the ultimate object of all desire, so that all of reality strains toward God - i.e. when you desire something, you desire it for some goal, and you desire THAT for some goal, etc. until you reach a "first" object of desire, even if you never consciously think of it,it's implied in all structure of desire through all the world. Ari uses the image of everything seeking the good (i.e. the object of desire) and being pulled the way the lover is pulled by seeing the beloved. Is deism like that? In the history of philosophy I don't know whether deists were trying to solve Aristotle's problem of teleology but more a problem of mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I'll keep this short seeing as Thankful has already answered so well. My beliefs in a nutshell: God yes. Religion no. As for Jesus, whether he existed or not is irrelevant. If he did, he said some wise things, and he said some foolish things. In order for a man's words to be worth hearing, mush he be divine? Seems to be the thinking of people in that time where the leader of the world (Rome) was a god. After all the Greeks had their philosophers who said many great things and expressed great thoughts.....without ever being declared offspring of divinity. As for god's involvement in the world? We're talking about god here. If it wants to be involved, it will get involved. Seeing as there is no world-wide agreement about this being, I'm inclined to think god doesn't get involved in big ways, It's more like the small rock eventually causing the big rockslide. I have difficulty believing a supreme being would want or need our worship and devotion. Human's carry that kind of ego. A truly supreme being probably wouldn't as it is a flaw. If it wanted worship, we'd all be on the same page world-wide in terms of religion. We aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 To add, I'm not sure "faith" can really be applied to a deistic view. But then, deism leave a lot of room for personal viewpoints, so it really isn't for me to say. Believing there is a god really doesn't give answers to a damn thing. Do we know it's intention? No. Do we know it's nature? No. Do we know where humanity fits in the grande scheme of things? No. Does god listen to us? Don't know. Do I feel better if I "talk" to god (or to myself)? Yes, and if someone comes along and asks what I'm doing, telling them I'm "praying" is more socially acceptable than..."I'm talking to myself." which is regarded as psychotic (sad, because I think it's quite healthy). So.....christians? Where are you? We know you have opinions about athiesm. And your stance on paganism is pretty clear too. Well? Here's a deism thread.....we're waiting....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I know, they are totally clueless of how to defend Christianity with a deist. I sure would love to see someone try though! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <fundie> My God is the true God, yours is false, it says so in the Bible and the Bible says the Bible is true, so there. </fundie> How did I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 How did I do? You didn't get red in the face, mouth breath or whine enough! - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You didn't get red in the face, mouth breath or whine enough! - Heimdall <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do I get points for being a calm fundie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 thankfulI know, they are totally clueless of how to defend Christianity with a deist. Definately! I enjoy thier rections to deists very much. The idea of your very being as a testament of god no book required. A study of Self, others, as well as the rest of creation. Xers can't relate to that in any way. Xers are stuck with thier certitude in a here say book and are "Truth" addicts. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I guess WE WON, eh? We usually do against the Cultists....they don't know how to handle us, we have no dogma, no holy book to pick apart, no churches, etc....all they can do is quote their mythology at us and that isn't very satisfying to them.....What is even more fun, is to turn their evangelizing back on them and start trying to convert them to the "true" God, the Creator! They really don't know how to handle that - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Try it, you might like it! - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. K Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Arguing why I'm a Deist with the fundies around here is like trying to stop a flood in full stream. I believe that there is a God, but I don't believe that the Bible is the literal word of God. I believe that ritual takes the place of true belief and faith in most religions. I believe that most of the dogma of the Xtian faith is merely mythology, and why should I believe that mythology when there are so many more INTERESTING myths out there to believe? Basically, I believe that God created us to go forth and do good. No more, no less. I don't believe that a kind, loving, merciful God would spew a hellbound hate trip. Which of course makes the fundies around here nearly purple in the face trying to argue with me. They usually resort to telling me I'm going to Hell, which results in me asking them if they've ever seen it, mapped it out, or taken pictures of it, and when the answer is no, my response is, "Then how do you know Hell exists, just because the Bible tells you so? I don't believe the Bible is the literal word of God, you'll have to do better than that." Of course, this leaves me rolling my eyes and saying . And leaves the fundies doing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Welcome Ms. K! I guess you would place in the Theist category, belief in a personal God without any specific definition of his attributes or character (i.e. holy books descriptions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Still no Christians commenting on this thread? Hmmmm.....is that a victory by default? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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