Ouroboros Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Or you could say, what's the result from a division with zero? Can God divide a number with zero and get a valid number? And btw, how can anything be against God's nature, since if he's paraphysical and paranormal, he is also supernatural and doesn't have a nature per se. To have a nature, you follow physical laws, which supposedly he is beyond. So the question is can he create a supernatural sandwich that is supernatural hot, so his supernatural fingers can't supernaturally pick it up? God is more than infinte, so he can create multiple outcomes at the same time, like multiple timelines. So the answer is that God creates a sandwich that is to hot, and he can't pick it up, and he creates a sandwich that he can pick up, at the same time, and you have to parallel timelines. I'm getting all quantum here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Or you could say, what's the result from a division with zero? Can God divide a number with zero and get a valid number? And btw, how can anything be against God's nature, since if he's paraphysical and paranormal, he is also supernatural and doesn't have a nature per se. To have a nature, you follow physical laws, which supposedly he is beyond. So the question is can he create a supernatural sandwich that is supernatural hot, so his supernatural fingers can't supernaturally pick it up? God is more than infinte, so he can create multiple outcomes at the same time, like multiple timelines. So the answer is that God creates a sandwich that is to hot, and he can't pick it up, and he creates a sandwich that he can pick up, at the same time, and you have to parallel timelines. I'm getting all quantum here! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Erm... how can anything be more than infinite? More to the point, if God does create a sandwich that is too hot, creating a new one he CAN pick up is irrelevent... He still created one that was too hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey crazy-tiger, You're right... but if God really was omnipotent, he would be able to do both. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can God do something God can't do. This is a problem with the structure of the sentance, not the subject. It's omnipotence that contains the conflicting conditions, thus omnipotence is impossible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please elaborate. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Can God do something God can't do. This is a problem with the structure of the sentance, not the subject. It's omnipotence that contains the conflicting conditions, thus omnipotence is impossible. Please elaborate. Peace! BtR <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, if someone is omnipotent, nothing is impossible for them. This is the important part to remember, and the part that contradicts itself... "Can God toast bread so hot he cannot hold it?" If the answer is yes, then it is impossible for him to hold it. If no, then it's impossible for him to toast it that hot. Omnipotence would answer both yes AND no... thus contradicting itself. It contains the conflicting conditions, the question just reveals them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Erm... how can anything be more than infinite? More to the point, if God does create a sandwich that is too hot, creating a new one he CAN pick up is irrelevent... He still created one that was too hot! It's a long story. After a long discussion with some friends years ago. We usually consider God as an infinite string of numbers, no beginning, no end. Like infinite in a couple of dimensions, and in time. But think of an infinte number of dimensions, and each dimension is infinite. Two infinites are more than one infinite. God doesn't necessarely be infinite in a linear time line, but be multiplied in infinite numbers of dimensions of infinite lengths and infinite number of outcomes. One where Adam and Eve never ate the fruit, one where Jesus was a girl, one where everyone walks backwards and one where I look good ... and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Maybe the answer is that God is omnimpotent instead.. I can do things God can not! Does it make me larger and more powerful than him? 1. I can die 2. I can go to Hell for eternity 3. I can sin 4. I can guess what's going to happen tomorrow and be wrong 5. I can be wrong about many things 6. I can hold my breath, and for a longer time it would be bad for me 7. I can eat, sleep, fart, get bored, enjoy sex and many other things that God can't Ha! Do you want me to go on? I have experience of life that God does not, and he can't copy and do it himself... hehehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Pretty much to sum it all up, God is seemingly a contridiction in the christian since. I believe in something Thich Nayt Hahn pointed out. "God is not a person, not less than a person". So I believe if there is a god he can not be described or comprehended, which makes the Christian God very flawed and unimportant. Something flawed enough to, make mistakes, regret, destroy, punish, or command. Is not worthy of worship. Which obviously makes Christianity one of the seemingly Contridictory and Flawed Philosophies still plagueing the surface of mother earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joseph Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 (snip)I can do things God can not! Does it make me larger and more powerful than him? 1. I can die 2. I can go to Hell for eternity 3. I can sin 4. I can guess what's going to happen tomorrow and be wrong 5. I can be wrong about many things 6. I can hold my breath, and for a longer time it would be bad for me 7. I can eat, sleep, fart, get bored, enjoy sex and many other things that God can't Ha! Do you want me to go on? I have experience of life that God does not, and he can't copy and do it himself... hehehe... If the Deity that exists or may exist is in actuality omniscient then that same Entity has lived your life (finite knowledge's existence) in all forms and by such has not only experienced all you have up until now, but has in actuality experienced everything you ever will do as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Pretty much to sum it all up, God is seemingly a contridiction in the christian since. I believe in something Thich Nayt Hahn pointed out. "God is not a person, not less than a person". So I believe if there is a god he can not be described or comprehended, which makes the Christian God very flawed and unimportant. Something flawed enough to, make mistakes, regret, destroy, punish, or command. Is not worthy of worship. Which obviously makes Christianity one of the seemingly Contridictory and Flawed Philosophies still plagueing the surface of mother earth. Right. The only true God would be the God that can't be explained, named, described or have any kind of attributes assigned to him. Tao Te Ching: The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 If the Deity that exists or may exist is in actuality omniscient then that same Entity has lived your life (finite knowledge's existence) in all forms and by such has not only experienced all you have up until now, but has in actuality experienced everything you ever will do as well. Right, I've been thinking about that too. Which is a totally different God than the Bible God. I sometimes think that maybe God is me right now, and in the next timeline God will be someone else. So eventually God will have been anyone and everyone that lived and living and will live. At the end we are all part and whole of God, and nothing is truly lost. God wanted to live and experience, he was tired of being omni-xxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 God doesn't necessarely be infinite in a linear time line, but be multiplied in infinite numbers of dimensions of infinite lengths and infinite number of outcomes.Still the same problem though... no matter how many outcomes there are, there's still one where it's too damn hot for him to handle. It's that one that shows that omnipotence is an impossibility. (I hope... I'm not 100% sure on my reasoning at this point, as I've never taken this idea so far before) Not that it makes much difference, since him not being able to make it to hot to handle ALSO shows omnipotence to be impossible. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... You've gotta love the elegance of that. One where Adam and Eve never ate the fruit, one where Jesus was a girl, one where everyone walks backwards and one where I look good ... and so on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One where Christianism makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Still the same problem though... no matter how many outcomes there are, there's still one where it's too damn hot for him to handle. It's that one that shows that omnipotence is an impossibility. (I hope... I'm not 100% sure on my reasoning at this point, as I've never taken this idea so far before) Not that it makes much difference, since him not being able to make it to hot to handle ALSO shows omnipotence to be impossible. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... You've gotta love the elegance of that. One where Christianism makes sense? Most definitely, one where Santa Claus really exists. I agree, btw, that omnipotence can't exist. If God exists, I rather think that he is not omnipotent, not omniscient, and not omnibenevolent. He's limited in all areas, but a very clever being. That's it. And he wouldn't care less if we pray to him, adore and worship him. He don't even care if we do things right or wrong, because he's not sure either. Pretty much a humanized god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Not to horribly detract from the conversation, but that has got to be the worst translation for the Dao De Jing I've seen. And I've seen it before - in some seventies publication. One solid clue as to whether a translation of Chinese is reliable or not - see whether it uses official pinyin. Such as "Dao" instead of "Tao". "Tao" is the old, out-dated style which should not longer be used. People who still use it obviously haven't caught up with the times, and I'm loathe to trust their translations if they're unaware of this fact. Furthermore, "mother of ten thousand beings" is the literal, and highly ludicrous translation of "wanwu zhi wu" . It actually took me two full days to figure out what the heck the English version was trying to say when I didn't have the Chinese in front of me. - rant on dodgy translation over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Not to horribly detract from the conversation, but that has got to be the worst translation for the Dao De Jing I've seen. And I've seen it before - in some seventies publication. One solid clue as to whether a translation of Chinese is reliable or not - see whether it uses official pinyin. Such as "Dao" instead of "Tao". "Tao" is the old, out-dated style which should not longer be used. People who still use it obviously haven't caught up with the times, and I'm loathe to trust their translations if they're unaware of this fact. Furthermore, "mother of ten thousand beings" is the literal, and highly ludicrous translation of "wanwu zhi wu" . It actually took me two full days to figure out what the heck the English version was trying to say when I didn't have the Chinese in front of me. - rant on dodgy translation over. I have three or four translations, but that's the one I have at work, so I took what I had. Unfortunately I don't speak chinese! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Can God do something God can't do. This is a problem with the structure of the sentance, not the subject. Please elaborate. "God can do anything" "Can he contradict himself?" "That's not a fair question." "You're the one claiming he can do anything. Can he contradict himself? "It's not his nature to contradict himself." "I didn't ask if it's his nature, which makes no sense for an all powerfull being anyway, I asked can he contradict himself." "You're committing a logical fallacy." "I'll answer the question for you. No, he can't contradict himself. Therefor, he is limited at least by noncontradiction. It's your insistence that he can do anything that is the fallacy. What you really mean is he can do anything possible. Logic is more powerful than god." "Nuh uh" Is god bound by logic? If so, then doesn't that make logic greater than god? If not, then all discussions regarding god are incomprehensible and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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