Mr. Neil Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Looks like I'm posting this again... for the fourth time. Hopefully the last time. Every time this goes up, the forums go down. Anyway... After spending some time on this site, I realize now that I was never a Christian. My days as a theist are so insignificantly liberal in contrast to everyone else's fundamentalist upbringing that I found that my claim of being a former Christian was probably utterly insulting to the other members who had really emotional deconversions. In contrast, mine was really no big deal. My parents raised me in their relaxed "Christian" belief system, which is actually borderline deism. They claim to be protestant, but they've never even had a Bible anywhere in the house, nor do they seem aware of what's actually in the Bible. Both of them accept the scientific theory of evolution. My mom is particularly scientifically minded. But for some reason, they both still believe that there was this guy two thousand years ago that could perform miracles and came back from the dead. Ironically, my mom contradicts that very belief regularly, and even said as recently as a few weeks ago in reference to the Terri Schiavo case, "We are our brains. When our brains are gone, We're gone." Funny how she believes in the resurrection, then. I always draw parallels between Christian belief and the "honored tradition" of Santa Claus at Christmas time. I think both are terrible things to teach kids, because both involve entities who can break the laws of physics, both of which oppose logic. However, it can have the opposite effect, such as in my case. Theism started breaking down the moment I realized that Santa wasn't real. My parents are terrible liars. They really had to apply effort to keep the Santa charade going. I guess I was always a little skeptical, because I would deliberately set little traps just to make sure that my parents were on the up-and-up. One year, I changed my mind on a gift. I told them I wanted a Sesame Street doll of Ernie, but later I changed my mind and said I wanted a puppet. We hadn't even sent the letter to Santa yet, and they were like, "Oh I think Santa probably got you the doll already." I'm almost insulted that they thought I'd fall for that. Even if that was true, what's the problem? It's Santa! He can give it to another child. I wanted a puppet! Then the next year, quite skeptical, I had my sister write a letter for me, which I then sealed, addressed, and applied postage before my parents got to see it. My parents were like, "Oh, we'd better have a look at it." Hahahahahaha!!!! "Why, Dad?" He's like, "Uh... well, Santa might not be able to read your hand writing." I'm like, "Carrie wrote it." I had to argue with them to keep them from opening it, and I eventually lost track of it when they suspiciously wouldn't let me go with them to the post office. So, needless to say, I have my parents to thank for my healthy skepticism, as unintentional as it may have been. The reason why this transitioned so well into apostacy is that my parents used a lot of the same bankrupt logic to justify belief in God and Jesus. The nightmare began one day when I learned about mythology, and I was like, "Say Mom, how do we know that Zues is fake god and God is the real God?" She's like, "Oh, we just knew, hon." WE JUST KNEW?! I couldn't believe she said that! Despite such blatant absurdity, my parents were very progressive, and I had quite a collection of prehistoric books, and all of them talked about evolution. Just imagine me as a child trying to figure out where Adam and Eve fit into anthropology, and you could probably see the trainwreck coming. Even at age seven, I knew more about evolution than Kent Hovind. I knew that one kind of animal doesn't literally give birth to another kind of animal (the typical creationist strawman), so I was able to identify the problem of saying that Adam and Eve were the first humans. Or the fact that they even had names, thus implying that they had language. Technically, if they were the first humans, they should at least be cavemen. I'm actually amazed at some of the things I used to think about when I was a kid. God fell apart once I started asking the question, "Where did God come from?". Sure, it was always easy to say that the universe was made by God, thus accounting for the existence of everything, but the one thing that theism doesn't do is account for itself. If God is uncreated, then doesn't that beg the question? Why are we thinking that the universe can't be uncreated but then applying a double standard to the creator. That metal grinding noise that could be heard was me sharpening Occam's Razor at a young age. I lost my theism somewhere between eight and ten. It was fairly easy. I never had the emotional attachement to it. I'd never been to church. It just seemed like religion was something extra and therefore unnecessary. I'm easily annoyed by rituals that have no justification or merit, so I was would always ask the question, "Why?", and that question would just hang. What I find, more often than not, is that theists get really aggitated when they're challenged. They become annoyed, angry, and antagonistic, and they don't ever seem to want to admit that they just don't know the answer. Science has taught me that it's okay to not know, and there is no justifiable reason for filling my gaps of knowledge with magical beings to account for thing things I don't know. I'm not afraid of that, and I'm not intimidated by theists who try to make it out to be a weakness. I'm not the one afraid to say, "I don't know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Thanks for re-posting this Mr. Neil. Always nice to know there are other "Never were's" on the forum. Thank you. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Looks like I'm posting this again... for the fourth time. Hopefully the last time. Every time this goes up, the forums go down. 3... 2... 1... SCNR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Looks like I'm posting this again... for the fourth time. Hopefully the last time. Every time this goes up, the forums go down.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe this'll larn ya to save stuff, Neil! Many of your posts have been wonderful, and it hurts to see them lost. Do me a favor and save your best ones to Word first, O.K.? Thanks for (re-re)posting this, Neil. And let me be the first on this pristine new board to say, "You were never a true Christian!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Yeah, I should definately save this version, since it's probably the best version of all of them. I like being very thourough, which is why my testimony is always so long, but that becomes a problem if I have to keep retyping it all the time. The only truly Christian thing that my family ever did was that we set up the nativity set every year at Christmas time. Otherwise, our celebrations of Easter and Christmas were strictly based on the pagan traditions of decorating trees and eggs and stuff like that. Ironically, I've had to correct my mother a few times while setting up the nativity set, because she had a knack for buying animals and things that wouldn't have existed in Bethlehem. For example, my parents have evergreens and turkeys in their nativity. To quote Dave Berry, I'm not making this up. And I'd rail on them for it. It was just embarrassing to look at every year. If they never put it up, I wouldn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 For example, my parents have evergreens and turkeys in their nativity. To quote Dave Berry, I'm not making this up. And I'd rail on them for it. It was just embarrassing to look at every year. If they never put it up, I wouldn't care. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Instead of railing on them for it, you could go the opposite path and participate with them in finding the most inappropriate animal figure to put in the nativity, such as an armadillo, a gummy worm, a plastic shark, and so on. You could contribute a single new one every year. Have fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Maybe this'll larn ya to save stuff, Neil! Many of your posts have been wonderful, and it hurts to see them lost. Do me a favor and save your best ones to Word first, O.K.? Thanks for (re-re)posting this, Neil. And let me be the first on this pristine new board to say, "You were never a true Christian!!!" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :lmao: Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well, whatever happened to my testimony? So welcome, Mr Neil! Looks like I have to post my testimony again. I absolutely depise posting testmonies. But welcome from NZ! Have some pavolva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 "You were never a true Christian!!!" Doesn't it feel good to say that once in awhile? Neil, thank you for reposting your story. I agree that this was the best version. I'm thankful to your parents for the freedom they gave you. My natural bent is somewhat of the philosopher. I have always been a lover of truth and have spent my life in its pursuit. Being around you has been most helpful in allowing me to withdraw my demand to know and to have the answers. Ever grateful, Reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Instead of railing on them for it, you could go the opposite path and participate with them in finding the most inappropriate animal figure to put in the nativity, such as an armadillo, a gummy worm, a plastic shark, and so on. You could contribute a single new one every year. Have fun with it! A SHARK! You're right. I should have done that. I could have started with really subtle ones and gradually get more ridiculous with each passing year to the point where we're inserting polar bears and babboons in the nativity. Yes, I was never a TrueChristian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokmer Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Yes, I was never a TrueChristian. Perhaps not, but you are a true thinker and truly delightful. Thanks for the read (again)! -Lokmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexkitten Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Now Loren's got me wanting to have a Nativity scene at Christmas. Great testimony, Neil. Always love to read your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Neil Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 My natural bent is somewhat of the philosopher. I have always been a lover of truth and have spent my life in its pursuit. Being around you has been most helpful in allowing me to withdraw my demand to know and to have the answers. Isn't that great? The one thing I think I've shown better than anything else is the fact that fundamentalist Christians are afraid to say "I don't know". They always have to have answers. They'll just keep talking, because they see the abscense of knowledge as a weakness. The other thing I bring to light is the fact that they don't like changing ideas. They rail on us for changing our minds about evolution and science, but I don't understand the basis for this. It's like they want discovery to be inert, but if we do that, then there's no discovery. With discovery, you learn something new, and new knowledge always leads to a changed perspective. The only thing I can say about the fundies and the creatos and the presups is that they're nuts. Absolutely 100% bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Heh, the Nativity Scene tangent reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the Pope and Michelangelo, where the Pope gets ticked at Michelangelo for painting a Last Supper and putting three Christs in it, dozens of apostles, and a kangaroo... Quite hilarious, if you can track down a copy. Maybe stick a kangaroo in there next holiday season... or a Buddy Jesus figure from Archie McPhee's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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