Christian Friends

[Amethyst]

One of my Christian friends on LJ defriended me for some reason. I think it was about a post I made when I was ranting quite a bit about my stepmom's last conversation. I can't think of any other reason why. I apologized in case I had offended her, but she hasn't written back.

 

What Christianity does to people pisses me off. Otherwise nice, kind & decent people are brainwashed entirely, so they can't think straight, and get all offended when you tell them why you don't believe. Even when you try to tell them it's nothing personal against them.

 

 

Well, at least I know who my real friends are.

[Kryten]

It's hard NOT to take it personally because to stop believing means you've figured out that what they think is a load of crap. Not the same as a muslim saying they don't believe. We were THERE, and know all that they know-- but now reject it, so in effect, we are calling them anything from wrong to stupid. Tough to accept from a friend...

[highvoltage]

Hi Amethyst

 

I'm pretty new around here, but I've found a lot of relief from some of my struggles with religion by hanging around here and reading (and posting a little) on the forums.

I always enjoy your posts, and I consider you a friend.

 

-hv

[Amethyst]

It's hard NOT to take it personally because to stop believing means you've figured out that what they think is a load of crap. Not the same as a muslim saying they don't believe. We were THERE, and know all that they know-- but now reject it, so in effect, we are calling them anything from wrong to stupid. Tough to accept from a friend...

 

I realize this. That's why I began and ended the post with "If you're Christian, please don't take this too personally."

 

Argh!

 

I'm pretty new around here, but I've found a lot of relief from some of my struggles with religion by hanging around here and reading (and posting a little) on the forums.

I always enjoy your posts, and I consider you a friend.

 

Thanks HV, that means a lot.

[dogmatically_challenged]

One of my Christian friends on LJ defriended me for some reason.  I think it was about a post I made when I was ranting quite a bit about my stepmom's last conversation.   I can't think of any other reason why.  I apologized in case I had offended her, but she hasn't written back.

 

What Christianity does to people pisses me off.  Otherwise nice, kind & decent people are brainwashed entirely, so they can't think straight, and get all offended when you tell them why you don't believe.  Even when you try to tell them it's nothing personal against them.

 

 

Well, at least I know who my real friends are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only fair way to descriminate and build our knowlege base and philosophy is to do our best to build on what is real. Because xianity does not, can not, do this; then some were down the line they will descrimintate in a way that is mindless. They have no method based on whats real and that is EXACTLY why they can hurt people with no rational reason.

 

The bible is not a method for anything. It is not consistent.

[thomas]

One of my Christian friends on LJ defriended me for some reason.  I think it was about a post I made when I was ranting quite a bit about my stepmom's last conversation.  I can't think of any other reason why.  I apologized in case I had offended her, but she hasn't written back.

 

What Christianity does to people pisses me off.  Otherwise nice, kind & decent people are brainwashed entirely, so they can't think straight, and get all offended when you tell them why you don't believe.  Even when you try to tell them it's nothing personal against them.

 

 

Well, at least I know who my real friends are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have a lot of Christian family, and somehow I always moderate myself when I am together with them. It just doesn't seem approriate for me to tell them what I really think.

 

I am not sure why it is so, but it seem to me, that Christian behaviour often is motivated by the the next life. Christian are like people who save all their money in order to invest in a bright future.

 

But if this future doen't exist (or works in a different way than Christians think), Christians are then like people who have invested all their money in stocks with zero value.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I have a lot of Christian family, and somehow I always moderate myself when I am together with them. It just doesn't seem approriate for me to tell them what I really think.

 

I am not sure why it is so, but it seem to me, that Christian behaviour often is motivated by the the next life. Christian are like people who save all their money in order to invest in a bright future.

 

But if this future doen't exist (or works in a different way than Christians think), Christians are then like people who have invested all their money in stocks with zero value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thier morality is based on zero value. i.e. god.

 

When I have my career I will have no problem what so ever telling my family exactly what I think of thier belief system. Yea they can hurt because of what I say, but thier pain is no were near the pain xianity in general has caused peoples of the planet. I feel that justice and a want of better methods in life demands that I at least plant seeds of doubt.

[Amethyst]

I have a lot of Christian family, and somehow I always moderate myself when I am together with them. It just doesn't seem approriate for me to tell them what I really think.

 

Whenever I am at large family gatherings, I do my best to keep my mouth shut regarding religion or politics unless someone makes a blanket statement like "all liberals are idiots," or something.

 

However, my stepmom did ask me directly about my beliefs, so I didn't think I should have to lie to her. And I have a right to recount that in my live journal. (I did make it friends-only.)

[Ouroboros]

I have a lot of Christian family, and somehow I always moderate myself when I am together with them. It just doesn't seem approriate for me to tell them what I really think.

 

I am not sure why it is so, but it seem to me, that Christian behaviour often is motivated by the the next life. Christian are like people who save all their money in order to invest in a bright future.

 

But if this future doen't exist (or works in a different way than Christians think), Christians are then like people who have invested all their money in stocks with zero value.

Very true. It's like these scams, where you put your money into something and expect to make millions, and you have no guarantee that you'll get any money back at all. And that's what happens. No money in the end. It's more logical and responsible to take care of your money.

[Kryten]

Despite asking them to not take in personally, it still stings them when they hear it. They may just need time to adjust.

Another aspect is that you may be causing them to reconsider, and in order to remain faithful they may feel the need to keep their distance.

 

As for my family, I have a couple of siblings that don't yet know I've deconverted, and my little bro will freak out when he hears. I got saved first, and he followed. He then became a pastor at a tiny church. His wife is, um, let's say very strongly self-assured. She may do something severe to me for the glory of the lord, so I haven't told them yet. It could get ugly, but I'll destroy them with truth, knowledge, and love...

My fiance already knows and still wants to get married. My old Xian friends don't know. (I'll tell them someday after they piss me off with another stupid Xian chain letter.)

 

But I think it's probably best to not stir things up if possible.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Despite asking them to not take in personally, it still stings them when they hear it.   They may just need time to adjust.  

Another aspect is that you may be causing them to reconsider, and in order to remain faithful they may feel the need to keep their distance. 

 

As for my family, I have a couple of siblings that don't yet know I've deconverted, and my little bro will freak out when he hears.  I got saved first, and he followed.  He then became a pastor at a tiny church.  His wife is, um, let's say very strongly self-assured.  She may do something severe to me for the glory of the lord, so I haven't told them yet.   It could get ugly, but I'll destroy them with truth, knowledge, and love...    

My fiance already knows and still wants to get married.   My old Xian friends don't know.  (I'll tell them someday after they piss me off with another stupid Xian chain letter.)  

 

But I think it's probably best to not stir things up if possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

but I'll destroy them with truth, knowledge, and love...

I have no love left for xians. They have burned me and for no rational reason. I have no empathy for them anymore. But some of you still love your families. I guess what you say is reasonable. But it will always be us who mustwalk on eggshells. It's a loving act to bend for them. I have no desire or patience for bending when it comes to xianity. I think people need to handle things the best way they can. For me I will always say what I think. I have no empathy for xers anymore.

[sonofspong]

It's tough getting along with christian family members. I've told my parents of my deconversion, but they just assume I'm "confused", blah blah blah, and that I'll get over it. They have absolutely no knowelege of thier own bible, exept for the major stories Moses, Noah's Ark, etc. Whenever I tried explain the atrocities of thier evil god, they'll say some rediculous thing like "No, no, Satan killed the first born children in Egypt, not god". They have absolutely no clue.

 

So, I just suck up my pride and don't mention religion when I visit them. I'll just let them assume I found God, or some bullshit like that. It sucks, but I don't wanna hurt them.

[nirrti]

It's tough getting along with christian family members. I've told my parents of my deconversion, but they just assume I'm "confused", blah blah blah, and that I'll get over it. They have absolutely no knowelege of thier own bible, exept for the major stories Moses, Noah's Ark, etc. Whenever I tried explain the atrocities of thier evil god, they'll say some rediculous thing like "No, no, Satan killed the first born children in Egypt, not god". They have absolutely no clue.

 

So, I just suck up my pride and don't mention religion when I visit them. I'll just let them assume I found God, or some bullshit like that. It sucks, but I don't wanna hurt them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that would be worse for me, my family not taking my deconversion seriously rather than outright rejecting me. At least when they disown me, they're communicating on an adult, if not irrational, level with me. I once told my grandmother about my views on gay marriage and she said something like I would understand better when I get older. In black culture, it's taboo to disagree with older people but so many of them want to hang on to the old ways as far as sex, religion and racial issues. I find as I get older I grow further apart from my family's thinking instead of embracing it so I doubt that I'll ever "understand".

[thomas]

Yea they can hurt because of what I say, but thier pain is no were near the pain xianity in general has caused peoples of the planet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi deconverted fellow

 

I understand what you are saying, and on some level I agree with you. But somehow, and to my surprise, I find that there are limits to what I can say.

 

I am not satisfied with the situation, but at the other hand I do not feel like a "sinner", when I keep a low profile.

 

 

I feel that justice and a want of better methods in life demands that I at least plant seeds of doubt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Last easter, when we had guests in our home, I told one of of them, that one thing we know for sure is, that Jesus wasn't crusified at easter. Many theologians agree on that (expect the most fundy ones, of course), so basically it wasn't really an attack on Christainity. But you should have seen this guest, when I said it you could see the shock in her body. Then I explained (from an informed Christian tehological point of view), why neither the local Roman authorities, nor the Jewish leaders, would like to kill a popular person, while many Jews were gathered in the city.

 

Then another of our guests said something about the big amount of historical evidence for Jesus. We both know, that there is no such evidence, but somehow I did not feel like giving further enlightment to my mistaken family that day.

[Amethyst]

Update:

 

Well, I finally heard back from my friend. She just said that it wasn't any one thing, but felt like I was trying to argue with her (even though I wasn't, I was just ranting for stress relief).

 

I told her I wanted to make sure she knew that I had nothing against her personally, and I would take her off my friend's list so she wouldn't have to read my friends-only posts, but if she wanted to come back from time to time and read the normal stuff, she could.

 

(I could ban her if I wanted, but I don't like banning people without a good reason, so I'm not going to.)

[shy1680]

I have no love left for xians. They have burned me and for no rational reason. I have no empathy for them anymore. But some of you still love your families. I guess what you say is reasonable. But it will always be us who mustwalk on eggshells. It's a loving act to bend for them. I have no desire or patience for bending when it comes to xianity. I think people need to handle things the best way they can. For me I will always say what I think. I have no empathy for xers anymore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*HUGS* to you dogmatically_challenged, I can relate to how your feeling. I have been having a hard time feeling any love towards Christians for the last few days. I made this bad mistake of joining Christianforums for a little fun debating but it turned me into a ball of rage. It drives me crazy to read about how these people like Hitler are going to go to heaven if they just repent and get "saved" but the rest of us non-believers are evil and should burn in hell. Then I hate to see how they feel sorry for us non-believers but see nothing wrong with the doctrine of hell for good non-believers.

[dogmatically_challenged]

*HUGS* to you dogmatically_challenged, I can relate to how your feeling.  I have been having a hard time feeling any love towards Christians for the last few days.  I made this bad mistake of joining Christianforums for a little fun debating but it turned me into a ball of rage.  It drives me crazy to read about how these people like Hitler are going to go to heaven if they just repent and get "saved" but the rest of us non-believers are evil and should burn in hell.  Then I hate to see how they feel sorry for us non-believers but see nothing wrong with the doctrine of hell for good non-believers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they blind? ...yes they are.

 

I am the kind of guy that would call some one a bastard if I think they are one, yet I'd not let them starve in my home. I'd help them if I saw they needed it. But I will never give them an inch in magical thinking. It's rude to be an atheist but not a xer? It's ok to vomit magical thinking all over me, but I can't tell it like it is? I say nonsense.

 

Also, I enjoy people, but do not need people. Hard knocks have taught me to adapt to the reality that folks come and go in life. Even family.

[Amethyst]

I am the kind of guy that would call some one a bastard if I think they are one, yet I'd not let them starve in my home. I'd help them if I saw they needed it. But I will never give them an inch in magical thinking. It's rude to be an atheist but not a xer? It's ok to vomit magical thinking all over me, but I can't tell it like it is? I say nonsense.

 

Well, yeah, I wouldn't let another human being starve or bleed to death if they needed medical help, regardless of whether they were a fundy of any stripe. But we shouldn't have to sacrifice our own beliefs for them, either.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Hi deconverted fellow

 

I understand what you are saying, and on some level I agree with you. But somehow, and to my surprise, I find that there are limits to what I can say.

 

I am not satisfied with the situation, but at the other hand I do not feel like a "sinner", when I keep a low profile. 

Last easter, when we had guests in our home, I told one of of them, that one thing we know for sure is, that Jesus wasn't crusified at easter. Many theologians agree on that (expect the most fundy ones, of course), so basically it wasn't really an attack on Christainity. But you should have seen this guest, when I said it you could see the shock in her body. Then I explained (from an informed Christian tehological point of view), why neither the local Roman authorities, nor the Jewish leaders, would like to kill a popular person, while many Jews were gathered in the city.

 

Then another of our guests said something about the big amount of historical evidence for Jesus. We both know, that there is no such evidence, but somehow I did not feel like giving further enlightment to my mistaken family that day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The truth is Thomas, I feel that life is short and if your family is important to you you may have to bend sometimes. Life is too short and if you love them you'll have to call the shots accordingly.

 

But for me I do not care if they find my statements offensive. I say life is to short to give a damn how strongly they feel about thier sky pixie, or to hide who I am. I think my reasons for telling it like it is is also valid. I just don't want it to be a trend here at ExC that we should all just kiss our families asses. My family is not that important to me, just as other xers aren't to justify not being me and lying to them. If they are dumb enough to talk religion around me then they will get what they deserve from me.

 

I am glad that you have family.

[dogmatically_challenged]

*HUGS* to you dogmatically_challenged, I can relate to how your feeling.  I have been having a hard time feeling any love towards Christians for the last few days.  I made this bad mistake of joining Christianforums for a little fun debating but it turned me into a ball of rage.  It drives me crazy to read about how these people like Hitler are going to go to heaven if they just repent and get "saved" but the rest of us non-believers are evil and should burn in hell.  Then I hate to see how they feel sorry for us non-believers but see nothing wrong with the doctrine of hell for good non-believers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you shy for the support. I do want it. I feel like a visitor from another planet many times in life. Most folks support xianity. And xianity is so absurd in a lot of ways.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Whenever I am at large family gatherings, I do my best to keep my mouth shut regarding religion or politics unless someone makes a blanket statement like "all liberals are idiots," or something.

 

However, my stepmom did ask me directly about my beliefs, so I didn't think I should have to lie to her.  And I have a right to recount that in my live journal.  (I did make it friends-only.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can cut people some slack when it comes to politics because I don't know what to really think of ANY politician. I don't know squat about politics really.

 

I am not a social person. In RT I might talk about things while I'm actually doing something. I do things with people in RT and am not so chatty. If my friends want me over just to chew the fat I pass. Same with family if my aunt doesn't make me go. It is because people will never agree on everything and Xers and other religionists in my experience are more prone to have certitude in beliefs than an honest confidence free from magical thinking or mindlessly paroting what they have heard without having any real want of understanding. This is most folks. I have zero patience for that. They are often, in my experience afraid to say "I don't know". They see anyone who is a nonbeliever as a threat on some level.

 

I think your honestly trying to do your best to get buy in a world chock full of superstitionists who have blind certitude in the bribes, threats and the do's and dont's given them by thier freekin gurus, priests and preachers. Holybooks are bullshit but that don't matter if we are severly outnumbered. It's THIER freekin planet and not ours. We are not valid. Our very existence is rude. Atheist is a dirty word.

[highvoltage]

Atheist is a dirty word.

 

This is tragic. I've found myself at times saying I'm agnostic, just to avoid the trouble and derision that comes from calling myself atheist.

 

I'm probably too soft and shouldn't care, but I'm still kind of an amateur at all this.

 

Thank you for the support. I do want it. I feel like a visitor from another planet many times in life.

 

You've got my support.

[Amethyst]

This is tragic. I've found myself at times saying I'm agnostic, just to avoid the trouble and derision that comes from calling myself atheist.

 

Hey, if being Atheist was as popular as being Christian is now, everyone would be calling themselves Atheist in order to fit in. Unfortunately, Christians are the majority (at least, in the West.) It pisses me off though, that we can't talk about our beliefs at certain times to avoid offending people (like in the workplace), and they can talk about theirs all they want to.

[highvoltage]

It pisses me off though, that we can't talk about our beliefs at certain times to avoid offending people (like in the workplace), and they can talk about theirs all they want to.

 

This is something that I think about a lot. Maybe we'll get to the point some day where we just don't care about offending people with their superstitions. They're the irrational ones, after all.

 

But in the meantime, this forum is a godsend where I can feel free to express my beliefs without fear of being labeled a pariah.

[Amethyst]

This is tragic. I've found myself at times saying I'm agnostic, just to avoid the trouble and derision that comes from calling myself atheist.

 

Definitely agree to that!

 

Also, I keep an offline journal for when I really want to rant and not have to worry about hurting someone's feelings.