Is It Just Me...?

[MaggieMae]

Sometimes I feel like I know more about the Bible than actual Christians. Like my family, for example. How can they adhere to a faith they don't honestly know about? If you're going to dedicate your life to something, wouldn't you like....research it?

 

I just don't get it sometimes....

[Deva]

I still clearly remember how surprised I was when I brought home a book on Biblical Archeology. I thought my fundamentalist parents would be interested in it. Neither one touched it. I was too young to understand it then, but later it dawned on me that they only want to know a certain amount of information about the Bible, namely how their own particular brand of pastor and radio Bible teachers presented it.

[Etchison]

No one is blinder than he who will not see.

 

Faith is a form of willful ignorance, so I'm not surprised when I see how muddled Christians' thinking is.

[par4dcourse]

We (the forum) had this discussion a while back and we deducted that while we were de-converting, we were looking for answers in the wholly babble harder than most anyone else. Most of the ex-c's here know the scriptures better than most xians.

[Max]

If you started to examine things too closely, the church folks would caution you against "intellectualizing." Like it's a moral flaw to seek understanding. You're supposed to "take it on faith."

 

I remember when I began to study geology and talk about how things had formed, my mom regarded that as taking all of the wonder out if it.

 

All-in-all, though, xtian or not, I'm convinced that the vast majority of people are just born followers. They think whatever they think they're supposed to think, and will change viewpoints on a dime if their chosen authority figure tells them to, without even noticing it. This isn't just in religion, but in business, finance, politics, and pretty much everything else. Maybe it's evolutionary - perhaps having the bulk of your society follow like a herd makes establishment of communities easier. I dunno. Annoying, isn't it?

[Neon Genesis]

The fundies at my parents' church who don't know I'm an atheist yet have told me that they think I know more about the bible than most Christians do. If I'm not mistaken, didn't they do this survey that showed most Christians don't even know what the first five books of the bible are?

[Amethyst]

They don't get it because they don't take time to think. They are too busy at their jobs so they come home exhausted every night, make dinner, and sit in front of the TV for the rest of the evening. Thinking is evil, after all.

[Trike]

My parents won't discuss the Bible or things of a religious nature with me anymore (they used to try, really, really hard) because they realized that I will run circles around them.

 

And back when I lived in the dorms at my Christian college, we had a "log" in our community bathroom which everyone took turns recording their thoughts on different topics in it (usually "Exams are hard!" or "Why are boys so weird?"). One day this girl who was applying to be a religious leader in the dorms wrote this long sermon on how you cannot have a romantic interest w/out lust or something along those lines. I busted out what the word translated as simply"lust" in Greek really means something slightly different, totally destroying her argument. After that even after I started calling myself a non-believer no one in my dorm bothered me .

[Ouroboros]

Most Christians are believers out of convention and convenience. Their parents were Christians, and they have learned to accept it without questioning. Only people who want to learn more and go deeper will start to see the religion for what it really is, and 99.9% of the time they get disappointed in how little supported their religion is, and how little most Christians know. Many here left because of their studies, so there's no wonder there are more Bible educated people here. It kind of goes hand-in-hand, people who doubt are the same people who study, who will be the people who know more.

[Redbeard]

Most Christians are believers out of convention and convenience. Their parents were Christians, and they have learned to accept it without questioning. Only people who want to learn more and go deeper will start to see the religion for what it really is, and 99.9% of the time they get disappointed in how little supported their religion is, and how little most Christians know. Many here left because of their studies, so there's no wonder there are more Bible educated people here. It kind of goes hand-in-hand, people who doubt are the same people who study, who will be the people who know more.

 

This.

 

 

I'm fully convinced that the only reason most people that can claim to have been Xians all of their life believe at all is because they're brainwashed into it from the time they're born. As doubtful as I was about the legitimacy of the bible, I still believed in a god, Jesus, etc. fully because that's all that I had ever known, even though I was never drawn to Xianity at all.

 

One of my best friends was a Wiccan (grew up that way). We talked religion quite a bit, and I remember telling her one day that if I hadn't been born into Xianity, then I was sure there was no way I ever would have bought it, and that I felt like I had been screwed and forced into it

[PocketAces]

Sometimes I feel like I know more about the Bible than actual Christians. Like my family, for example. How can they adhere to a faith they don't honestly know about? If you're going to dedicate your life to something, wouldn't you like....research it?

 

I just don't get it sometimes....

i don't think it is about more knowledge between the non-believeing side and the believeing side.

 

i think this is what happens when you see one side that is non-biased, seeking truth from a non-biased standpoint, and a side that is biased and believes in something that is sufficient for them as an individual.

[Kuroikaze]

Sometimes I feel like I know more about the Bible than actual Christians. Like my family, for example. How can they adhere to a faith they don't honestly know about? If you're going to dedicate your life to something, wouldn't you like....research it?

 

I just don't get it sometimes....

 

I've had this very conversation with my mother. She has often said things that are completely inaccurate about the bible, I will correct her, she will argue with me, even though she knows that I know this stuff better than her. Even if she ends up conceding my point the next time the topic comes up she will say the exact thing she said last time as if we didn't even talk about it before. Thus, why I gave up ever having a conversation with her about it.

 

I've often told her, in these discussions, that she should research the bible and biblical history herself if she really wants to know the truth. She always tells me she has "more important things to do."

 

I think she always goes away from the conversations feeling that she "won" because she is my mom and thus she ALWAYS knows more about EVERYTHING. She once told me (I was in my late 20's at the time) that I should learn from my parents experience. When I suggested that they could learn from my experiences as well she became very angry and told me that they had nothing to learn from me because they are the parents and I was the child. Not in those exact words but that was the jist of it.

[SWIM]

I still clearly remember how surprised I was when I brought home a book on Biblical Archeology. I thought my fundamentalist parents would be interested in it. Neither one touched it. I was too young to understand it then, but later it dawned on me that they only want to know a certain amount of information about the Bible, namely how their own particular brand of pastor and radio Bible teachers presented it.

 

BINGO!

 

Christians ignore the negatives in the bible, like god requesting a man kill his son, or god killing the entire world on a whim with a flood. They either ignore the negative, or put some sort of twisted "spin" on it. Now, when you cross over from the bible, and read basically a "science" book on the history of the bible.... Oh no! No cryptic stories to put a spin on... Causes then to QUESTION which in xtainity that's a big no no.

 

I asked a christian friend a while back if he would look at the SAB, sent a few youtubes, all of which he ignored. I asked him why and his answer was that he was content with what he believed, and was not interested in shaking his own faith. So basically he decided to bury his head in the sand! I think this is VERY common. We see it HERE all the time, people ignoring posts and replies that "should" open eyes.

 

We see people with the squiggle, with THOUSANDS or hundreds of posts... How can you be in so many discussions and read SO much intelligence yet remain delussional? It is like the osterich, they CHOOSE to bury their head in the sand.

[MaggieMae]

My parents won't discuss the Bible or things of a religious nature with me anymore (they used to try, really, really hard) because they realized that I will run circles around them.

 

And back when I lived in the dorms at my Christian college, we had a "log" in our community bathroom which everyone took turns recording their thoughts on different topics in it (usually "Exams are hard!" or "Why are boys so weird?"). One day this girl who was applying to be a religious leader in the dorms wrote this long sermon on how you cannot have a romantic interest w/out lust or something along those lines. I busted out what the word translated as simply"lust" in Greek really means something slightly different, totally destroying her argument. After that even after I started calling myself a non-believer no one in my dorm bothered me .

 

 

lol awesome. The people who are the most mouthy and sure of themselves are always the most fun to bring down to reality! ^^

[MaggieMae]

I still clearly remember how surprised I was when I brought home a book on Biblical Archeology. I thought my fundamentalist parents would be interested in it. Neither one touched it. I was too young to understand it then, but later it dawned on me that they only want to know a certain amount of information about the Bible, namely how their own particular brand of pastor and radio Bible teachers presented it.

 

BINGO!

 

Christians ignore the negatives in the bible, like god requesting a man kill his son, or god killing the entire world on a whim with a flood. They either ignore the negative, or put some sort of twisted "spin" on it. Now, when you cross over from the bible, and read basically a "science" book on the history of the bible.... Oh no! No cryptic stories to put a spin on... Causes then to QUESTION which in xtainity that's a big no no.

 

I asked a christian friend a while back if he would look at the SAB, sent a few youtubes, all of which he ignored. I asked him why and his answer was that he was content with what he believed, and was not interested in shaking his own faith. So basically he decided to bury his head in the sand! I think this is VERY common. We see it HERE all the time, people ignoring posts and replies that "should" open eyes.

 

We see people with the squiggle, with THOUSANDS or hundreds of posts... How can you be in so many discussions and read SO much intelligence yet remain delussional? It is like the osterich, they CHOOSE to bury their head in the sand.

 

That's so true. It's just so hard to watch on a daily basis! From the outside looking in everything is so obvious, but they continue to gloss over any little hiccup in reasoning so that their illusion stays together.

 

Yikes!

[Raul]

The Koran! well, come put me to the test—

Lovely old book in hideous error drest—

 Believe me, I can quote the Koran too,

The unbeliever knows his Koran best

(Omar Hayam)

[Neon Genesis]

Speaking of xtians not ever reading their bibles, sometime next year my parents' congregation will be doing this thing where they'll read the entire bible in 90 days. I wonder how many xtians will deconvert from doing this and what excuses will be given to explain away contradictions. Has anybody else's churches ever done this?

[Vendredie]

I actually know about as much as the average Xtian, or less.

 

It wasn't what the Bible said that made me deconvert (y'know, having never read it the whole way through except for Exodus, Leviticus and Revelation). It was the history of Christianity. It was the fact that I was raised Baptist but had never once been taught about the Trinity until the age of 11. My religious upbringjng was church camp for two summers and then AWANA... then going to church on Sunday unless ny parents felt they had better shit to do.

 

So I'm one of the less Bible-educated around here...

[Vendredie]

Speaking of xtians not ever reading their bibles, sometime next year my parents' congregation will be doing this thing where they'll read the entire bible in 90 days. I wonder how many xtians will deconvert from doing this and what excuses will be given to explain away contradictions. Has anybody else's churches ever done this?

My church(es) have never done this... I don't think anyone will read their Bibles. There's better shit to do. And better books to read.

[ShackledNoMore]

It's easier to gloss over the bible when you read it as a church-sponsored sheep, where there are usually mechanisms in place, such as bible studies, sermons, "teachings," or devotions to help "guide" you on how you should think about or interpret the bible. I read (er, glossed over) the entire bible as a teenager for my bible pin in Royal Rangers, but didn't gain any real momentum on the road to deconversion until several years later. It was a while before I really noticed what the bible really said.

[Roan7995]

We like to know about it because it's our best weapon against them. They don't like to know about it because everything they read from it tests their faith. Lol.

[Guest GaryL]

Speaking of xtians not ever reading their bibles, sometime next year my parents' congregation will be doing this thing where they'll read the entire bible in 90 days. I wonder how many xtians will deconvert from doing this and what excuses will be given to explain away contradictions. Has anybody else's churches ever done this?

 

Yeah mine wanted us to read it in six months, I got to the NT and re-read large parts of the OT again. Couldn't believe I missed so much the first few times around. Led directly to my deconverting. A grain of doubt (in the form of the whole flood story) was all it took.

I often wonder if I would still be a Christian if my pastor hadn't suggested reading ALL the bible to get a better understanding of God? Go figure.

[godlessgrrl]

Sometimes I feel like I know more about the Bible than actual Christians.

 

It isn't just you. Plenty of ex-believers know their Bible better than actual Christians do. I'd bet most of the folks here know the damn book inside and out; after all, we've got people here who were ex-pastors or preachers, people who earned theology degrees, people who've learned ancient languages and actually bothered to translate all or part of the Bible from its original texts... and lots of folks here who deconverted because they actually read the whole thing with a critical mind.

 

Believers don't like to hear that one of the best paths to deconversion is to read the Bible. Fundies hate it, especially. But they have explanations for it that help shore up their faith.

 

Things like: we read it in-depth, but we were translating it wrong. Or we took it out of context. Or we didn't interpret it correctly.

 

I've seen Bible-thumpers tell non-believers that a non-believer can't understand the Bible properly because s/he doesn't have the Holy Spirit helping them out. It doesn't matter if an ex-believer knows more about the Bible than they do. For the truly faithful all that's necessary to decipher the Bible is the guidance of the Holy Spook - not languages, not diligent study, not genuine scholarship. Just divine inspiration.

 

Guess it takes divine inspiration to make a senseless book make sense.

[chefranden]

Sometimes I feel like I know more about the Bible than actual Christians. Like my family, for example. How can they adhere to a faith they don't honestly know about? If you're going to dedicate your life to something, wouldn't you like....research it?

 

I just don't get it sometimes....

 

Well, this is a big part of the reason that the Roman Church worked hard to keep scripture out of the hands of the laity. The first Bible publishers like William Tyndale, who got himself burned at the stake for his efforts, had a bit of a fight on their hands.

 

Edit: consider the following.

 

...Gary Burge, professor of New Testament at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois, asserts that biblical illiteracy is at a crisis level not just in our culture in general but in America’s churches.

 

“If it is true that biblical illiteracy is commonplace in secular culture at large, there is ample evidence that points to similar trends in our churches,” he says.[3]

 

Burge points to research at Wheaton College in which the biblical and theological literacy of incoming freshmen have been monitored. These students, who represent almost every Protestant denomination in the United States from every state in the country, have returned some “surprising results”:

 

• One-third could not put the following in order: Abraham, the Old Testament prophets, the death of Christ, and Pentecost.

• Half could not sequence the following: Moses in Egypt, Isaac’s birth, Saul’s death, and Judah’s exile.

• One-third could not identify Matthew as an apostle from a list of New Testament names.

• When asked to locate the biblical book supplying a given story, one-third could not find Paul’s travels in Acts, half did not know that the Christmas story was in Matthew, half did not know that the Passover story was in Exodus.[4]

 

Like Burge, George Lindbeck, the famous Yale theologian, has commented on the decreasing knowledge of Scripture from a professor’s perspective.

 

“When I first arrived at Yale, even those who came from nonreligious backgrounds knew the Bible better than most of those now who come from churchgoing families,” he says.[5]

 

This is also the view of theologian and author David Wells.

 

“I have watched with growing disbelief as the evangelical church has cheerfully plunged into astounding theological illiteracy,” declares Wells in his book No Place for Truth.[6]

 

Biblical illiteracy is not just a problem for American churches. A scientific survey called PISA (Program for International Student Assessment) tested the knowledge of people in thirty-two industrialized countries. The results of the study show an “insidious biblical illiteracy” even in Christian circles, says Volker Gaeckle, dean of studies at Albrecht Bengel Center in Tuebingen. “Churches should heed the PISA warning that text comprehension is a major problem.” [7]...

Link to the whole article

[hereticzero]

We (the forum) had this discussion a while back and we deducted that while we were de-converting, we were looking for answers in the wholly babble harder than most anyone else. Most of the ex-c's here know the scriptures better than most xians.

Back when I was a funny-mental, I only read the babble looking for the scripture that supported my assertions. Since deconverting, I read the babble looking for a reason to believe it. So, when we are believers we look at what we believe differently than we do if we do not believe.