Dealing With The In-laws

[PaulQ]

Hi, it's been a while since I last posted here. Things have been fine, until recently.

 

First, a little background. I used to work for one of the "Big 3," while brother-in-law worked for one of the suppliers. Looks like both of us are out of work now, but I saw it coming years ago (thanks to my skepticism), and planned for it; he did not. In any case, there is cause for tension. I am married to his older sister, and we have a son. My son is a very well-balanced kid, and used to spend a lot of time with this uncle before his own financial situation started to sour; thanks in part to his god-fearing Christian wife who also happens to be a shop-a-holic.

 

I ended up a little better off than he; not only due to my own frugal ways and the wisdom of my equally frugal wife, but also my company offered a generous buyout package with a new car voucher. I am finishing up an electronics technician course I had elected to take while it was covered by my benefits, and have a game plan that includes the possibility of going back to school. He and his wife, on the other hand, seem to rely on the power of prayer, something I know all too well is destined to fail; but I say nothing. My wife and I are deciding on which car (or truck) to get, while he fears he may lose his house (though he has said nothing directly to us about it). My wife went back to school and started a new career to carry us through, while his wife continued to shop 'till she dropped. It's a modern take on the classic ant and grasshopper story, except the ant and grasshopper had a better relationship.

 

It's Christmas eve at the in-laws. Brother-in-law and wife say nothing to us when they arrive, nor at the table. Nothing new to me; brother-in-law never did let me into his life, and I've never been one to be pushy. Our relationship has been cool from day one, in the sense that he's always come across as being "Too cool" for me. I did go out of my way to videotape their wedding for them, while receiving little in the way of thanks. I digress, though I do try to do nice things. His son is just learning to walk, and as such tripped, tumbled, and bonked his head on the side of a cardboard box. What seemed like a minute passed before his lungs kicked in and he started wailing. Both parents jump in to coddle him, taking turns to calm him down. Everyone can clearly see that there was no actual harm done, that their dear little one is going to be fine. No blood, no scratch, no bump; nothing except a tiny reddish bloodless dot caused by the edge of the cardboard.

 

Five minutes later, he's still crying, but as an experienced father, I can tell that the cry is one for attention rather than one of pain. Mother is still coddling him. I do exactly as I would have done if it were my own son; I pointed my finger to him, smiled, and said, "Ha ha." A classic little tease with no bad intention; my wife and my son witnessed it and recognized it as a bit of harmless ribbing. His mother immediately whisked him away.

 

A few minutes later, my wife's brother came into the room after talking to his wife and decided to speak to me for the first time that evening (and, for that matter, for the first time in a long time). Except he wasn't speaking, he was yelling. "Oh, so you think it's funny that my son fell down and hurt himself, huh? You think that's funny?" I attempted to explain to him, in a calm manner, that I don't think it's funny for anyone to get hurt; at which point, he turned to petty name calling, calling me an idiot, a loser, and a tool, laced with profanity. I stood up, announced that I would not put up with this kind of abuse, wished him a merry Christmas, and announced that I was leaving. He and my wife started to argue; my wife defending me, and he now insulting her, calling her a loser. That's when I told my wife and son that they were leaving too, because "Uncle XXX is a little too hot-headed." He continued to attempt to argue with me, but I refused to respond. My mother-in-law came to the door in tears trying to apologize, but I told her it wasn't her fault. I later found out that after I left, she argued with brother in law, went to her bed and cried, and everyone went home.

 

My 9 year old son was quite upset at his uncle's behavior, and so wrote him a note telling his uncle how he didn't want anything from him anymore, and asked me if he could return the unopened gifts he had gotten from his uncle with the note attached. I told him that would be fine. He left it on his uncle's front door step the day after Christmas (his uncle doesn't live very far away). He doesn't wish to call him uncle anymore, on account that my wife's brother's actions towards me and my wife demonstrated an utter lack of respect.

 

It's too late to make a long story short, but tonight I received a call from mother-in-law asking if I'd go to a priest with brother-in-law to forgive each other. I advised her that I didn't need to go to a priest to forgive anyone; how a simple apology from him to myself and my wife would suffice. I also advised her that I harbor no ill towards him, that in fact I feel sorry for him with is employment difficulties and being married to such a big spender. She insisted that we ought to go in front of a priest, so I agreed, reminding her that I was not a religious person, but if it made him and her feel better, I would. Then she asked if I would split on any cost for this. I had to hold back my laughter; I flat out refuse to give any money to an organization I feel is a parasite of humanity. I simply told her I refuse to pay for such a thing given the fact that I am currently out of a job, and that I would go if it suited my schedule.

 

Brother-in-law knows full well I am an ex christian. He knows I do not participate in their rituals such as prayer before a meal. My wife believes this is some sort of ploy on his part to make me look bad by using religion as some sort of weapon. I want to go, simply to have the forum and opportunity to ask him what he takes me for. Any suggestions?

[Prysm]

I guess you have to ask yourself two questions: what are the possible options, and what are the likely outcomes of those options? If you go, what is the chance that there will be some benefit or drawback? If not, what will happen? If there is benefit to going, how much is it worth to you? I guess the bible did get it right in one place: do your best to live at peace with everyone. If going will stir up more than you want to deal with openly, just say you can't afford it and you don't want to leech from someone else, then send a card. They'll get over it. If you think they won't rest until you see a priest, then go, be as calm as possible, and say whatever they need to hear to let it go. If you factor in your wife's relationship with her brother and parents, as well as your son's relationship to his uncle, I'm sure you'll figure out the best option. What does your wife think? She knows them best. You could always agree to it and then indefinitely postpone it until it would be just plain awkward to discuss seriously (so, three months ago you laughed about his son bumping his head?)

 

Personally, I would probably agree to go and then be inflammatory and confrontational, but in my experience that isn't actually advisable. Go for the path of least resistance. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[mwc]

I would refuse. Plain and simple. This is a bully tactic. He wronged you and now you have to play by his rules to make things right? Been there. It fails to appease it just makes things worse in the long run. If HE needs to see a priest to ease his mind then he's free to do so. The priest will not be sympathetic to you. The priest will not help the situation. The priest will just be a new problem added to the mix. Time might be your friend here. You may also want to try explaining to your son that uncle isn't so bad, etc., etc. and mending that relationship since that's probably the biggest concern among the others. You and him don't have to like one another but it's always a shame when someone so young is set against a relative (whether they deserve it or not). The others may not truly think that your son came to that decision on his own and that you're using him as a pawn in all this.

 

mwc

[PaulQ]

Mwc, you are correct in that this is another bully tactic. So is the yelling, name-calling, etc.

 

I do see an opportunity in going, however. I can bring to light that the only time he has tried to open communications with me was Christmas eve when he started yelling, swearing, and name-calling; and now he wants to drag me before a priest to make amends? What does he take me for? This is further proof that he clearly doesn't think much of me. On that note, Prysm is absolutely correct; I have absolutely no doubt that I would end up being confrontational.

 

As for my son being viewed as being a pawn; well, he is my son. It's my job to bring him up. My wife and I have certain rights as parents. Fortunately, aunts and uncles do not have any rights when it comes to him, which makes my job a lot easier. One value I want to instill in him is to stand up for people who are being bullied, which is why he wanted to give his uncle back the presents. Another value is that respect is a two-way street, and that people who abuse and bully other people are not deserving of respect.

 

I am convinced there is absolutely nothing that will change the mind of my brother-in-law; that bringing up these points will only serve to make him feel humiliated. On the other hand, I'm certainly not about to grovel for his forgiveness in front of a priest! At the very least, I do anticipate he will see me as someone he can't easily walk all over, and if he wishes to have a relationship with his nephew, he's going to have to repair the one with his nephew's father first.

[florduh]

I agree with mwc. None of you normal people need to maintain a relationship with such a person. It will happen again if you maintain contact.

[mwc]

I am convinced there is absolutely nothing that will change the mind of my brother-in-law; that bringing up these points will only serve to make him feel humiliated. On the other hand, I'm certainly not about to grovel for his forgiveness in front of a priest! At the very least, I do anticipate he will see me as someone he can't easily walk all over, and if he wishes to have a relationship with his nephew, he's going to have to repair the one with his nephew's father first.

I pretty much agree with you on the other points so we'll skip to this one. I typed a little story about my own adventures in xian counseling but decided to go a different route. If you go won't you be sending a mixed message about what you can be made to do? From my POV he's just using the rest of the family to manipulate you instead of doing it directly (and he's manipulating them at the same time). At this point, since you still seem to be on good terms with your wife's parents, I'd probably just ignore the whole thing and go on with my life (if you see him then you see him...you said he didn't speak to you anyhow so nothing would really change). I haven't seen my wife's family in ~3 years now (she sees them all the time) so unless you have to resort to extremes it's best to take it one step at a time.

 

mwc

[PaulQ]

I pretty much agree with you on the other points so we'll skip to this one. I typed a little story about my own adventures in xian counseling but decided to go a different route. If you go won't you be sending a mixed message about what you can be made to do? From my POV he's just using the rest of the family to manipulate you instead of doing it directly (and he's manipulating them at the same time).

 

This is very true, and I think you hit the nail on the head. It is about control. After I announced that I was going to leave, he said he was kicking me out. When I announced that my wife and son were leaving with me, he said he was kicking her out as well. He didn't count on everyone else leaving after we left.

 

With my life, I carefully chart and plot every course; I save money and pay down debts when times are good, then spend money when times are bad. I always have a plan B. I started this strategy a long time ago, around the same time I stopped believing in a god and Jesus and all that nonsense; when I realized the fate of my life was in my hands, and if I didn't make plans for myself, someone else would for their own benefit. Leaving Christianity was the best thing I ever done for my finances. Unfortunately, brother-in-law's life is quite the opposite; he and his wife run up enormous debt when times are good, and now stand to lose it all during the difficult time many of us find ourselves in. Sadly, I am powerless to help him, because any help would come across as being patronizing. Further, unlike the industrious ant, I only have sufficient "Stores" to care for the needs of my immediate family.

 

Brother-in-law is losing control of his life, recognizes the control I have in my own life, and is clearly trying to manipulate me and others. I think he's resentful that I am exploring new options and new career and educational opportunities while taking advantage of the savings in a depressed economy. My wife is certain of this.

 

At this point, since you still seem to be on good terms with your wife's parents, I'd probably just ignore the whole thing and go on with my life (if you see him then you see him...you said he didn't speak to you anyhow so nothing would really change). I haven't seen my wife's family in ~3 years now (she sees them all the time) so unless you have to resort to extremes it's best to take it one step at a time.

 

Actually, father-in-law passed away a few years ago; but I did have a great relationship with him, as I have a good one with mother-in-law. This, in spite of my lack of belief. My wife suggested the same as you did just now; to ignore the whole thing and carry on with life, because nothing will really change in my relationship with him.

 

That settles it, then. I'm not going to his priest. I have much more power now to manipulate my schedule than I did before to ensure that I just won't have the time. I will leave the door open for him to apologize, but the whole forgiving each other in front of a priest is clearly a ridiculous ruse. I am certain now that when mother-in-law passes on, we and they will never speak no matter what we try to do today.

[buffettphan]

"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

I don't know who made that statement, but over the holidays (which really seem to bring out even more idiocy from the religious nutjobs), I've been alternating those wise words with these from George Bernard Shaw:

 

"I learned a long time ago, never wrestle with a pig.

You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

 

It seems as though you had more than your share of idiots and pigs to deal with!

 

 

 

Glad you decided not to visit the priest. Good luck with your outlaws. The fact that you and your wife have each others' backs is something to treasure! And what a perceptive child you have!

[deb]

Sounds to me like you've chosen a wise path of action. And I have to hand it to you for being so calm and rational throughout the whole ordeal and process. Sounds like you and your wife and son are a very happy healthy family, and it's encouraging to read of others taking a stand...not willing to be bullied or manipulated. That's something I've had to learn to do with my family also. Kudos!

 

Deb

[par4dcourse]

Never approach a goat from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any angle. --Yiddish Proverb

When someone who annoys me start to do just that, I recite "Alice's Restaraunt" in it's entirety, but that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

[pitchu]

Seems to me you can't do anything to make him a better person or a more reasonable family member, which he'd have to be open and able to become for this stasis to change. Meanwhile, you and your family seem fine. The one person in this story who, imo, needs some extra attention is Mother-in-law... she did nothing wrong, opened her home to all, and had her evening torn to shreds. If you and your wife and son concentrate on easing her hurt and upset, that seems the wisest and most rational application of your efforts.

 

Good luck!

[mwc]

I agree with pitchu.

 

mwc

[PaulQ]

My wife was talking to mother-in-law today. Apparently, brother-in-law with his wife were over there working on mother-in-law, trying to convince her that I was making fun of his kid. They told her that if I did not apologize to brother-in-law, he would never speak to me again. My wife recognizes this for the empty threat that it is; nothing would change in our relationship. In other words, I stand to lose nothing by not apologizing, because we never really spoke much before. However, by apologizing, I would effectively be admitting that I made fun of a toddler, which is something I absolutely would never do. In addition, he's claiming that I made fun of his son's ears. At a birthday a few months ago, I did mention that they were cute, and his own mother (brother-in-law's wife) then made a dumbo comment, after which I made clear was not what I meant by cute. I should have recognized then that they were out looking to pick a fight.

 

Fortunately, both my wife and my son are standing firmly by my side. They recognize hatred motivated by jealousy, and that brother-in-law and his wife are only trying to humiliate me. To play their foolish game would do nobody any good, though my wife has suggested that we ought to make brother-in-law apologize for calling her fat and calling our son stupid, to demonstrate how absurd his allegations are.

 

My wife and I are now considering fostering and adopting to grow our own family. We have considered it in the past, and this only serves to fuel our motivation.

[ixolite]

"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

I don't know who made that statement,

 

 

Goldthwait H. Dorr  I think he's a movie character.

 

 

 

from George Bernard Shaw:

 

"I learned a long time ago, never wrestle with a pig.

You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

That's a good one.   

[ixolite]

My wife was talking to mother-in-law today. Apparently, brother-in-law with his wife were over there working on mother-in-law, trying to convince her that I was making fun of his kid. They told her that if I did not apologize to brother-in-law, he would never speak to me again. My wife recognizes this for the empty threat that it is; nothing would change in our relationship. In other words, I stand to lose nothing by not apologizing, because we never really spoke much before. However, by apologizing, I would effectively be admitting that I made fun of a toddler, which is something I absolutely would never do. In addition, he's claiming that I made fun of his son's ears. At a birthday a few months ago, I did mention that they were cute, and his own mother (brother-in-law's wife) then made a dumbo comment, after which I made clear was not what I meant by cute. I should have recognized then that they were out looking to pick a fight.

 

Fortunately, both my wife and my son are standing firmly by my side. They recognize hatred motivated by jealousy, and that brother-in-law and his wife are only trying to humiliate me. To play their foolish game would do nobody any good, though my wife has suggested that we ought to make brother-in-law apologize for calling her fat and calling our son stupid, to demonstrate how absurd his allegations are.

 

My wife and I are now considering fostering and adopting to grow our own family. We have considered it in the past, and this only serves to fuel our motivation.

Love your neighbour, huh?  Very christian behavior from your in-laws. Maybe you should sent them a letter with some biblequotes. 

[PaulQ]

Love your neighbour, huh?  Very christian behavior from your in-laws. Maybe you should sent them a letter with some biblequotes. 

 

We are open to suggestions.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention, after I indicated that I would go to a priest earlier (but later decided to play the "I'm too busy" game), they seemed to have dropped the whole forgiving in front of a priest issue. My wife believes he's playing head games, and thought I'd refuse, making me look like the bad guy in front of his mother. What he doesn't seem to notice (or care about) is that he's pushing his dear old mother ever closer to a heart attack, and when she's gone, you can bet that my wife and I are going to give the two of them an earful that will burn that bridge down completely.