jackbauer Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Okay, I'm an Obama supporter and of course voted for him this election. In summery, he seems much more in tune with the working man than Mccain does. However, my Catholic friends say shame on me for voting Obama. And why are they so against Obama? Abortion. Now, I personally don't like abortion myself. I know there are times when it is probably necessary, but overall, I think it sucks. HOWEVER, it is ONE issue out of many! One issue should not be the deciding factor on who to vote for, especially one that's not going to be solved by voting for a pro choice candidate. If 8 years of a pro life conservative president and congress did squat to stop abortion, then what good would Mccain do? So what do I get told? "Think of all the cries of the unborn babies!". By this same logic, I can say "Think of all the cries of the American soldiers and innocent Iraqies being NEEDLESSLY killed in a war that should not have even happened in the first place" yet that would probably fall on deaf ears. Don't tell me who vote for when you are know so little about your precious pro life candidates. DO they even consider the other issues or does it all come down to abortion for them? I love my Catholic friends, but some days, I would like to knock some sense into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixchel Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 A lot of preachers were naming off who they thought was "God's Candidate" and it definitely wasn't Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I have a cousin who, after having a healthy baby boy, suffered multiple miscarriages before finally having a 2nd child. Each of those miscarriages were a result of her own body aborting the pregnancy. As it turns out, abortions occur naturally all the time! By Christian logic, it's okay if their god causes the abortion (in the case of a miscarriage), but we be damned if we decide to do it ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloWorld Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I can relate to this. I was raised Catholic by a VERY faithful Catholic mother. I was always taught that abortion was absolutely evil. We did the yearly pro-life march/rally where you stand on the sidewalk wearing "Abortion kills children" signs around our necks. I even did a pro-life speech for my grade 10 English class at public high school. I was always taught that you had to vote the most pro-life candidate on the ballot. I think it should also be stated that according to the Church, there are 5 non-negotiables for voting Catholics: 1. Abortion 2. Embryonic stem cell research 3. Same-sex marriage 4. Euthanasia 5. Human cloning These are all generally considered under the pro-life umbrella. Ya gotta vote with the Church on them, or you are in big do-do. Since this thread specifically mentions abortion, that is the only one I will discuss here. I have recently had a change in perspective with regards to abortion. I have grown tired of being told how to vote. Here is what I think about the matter. First, I really do believe that abortion is an issue that need not be muddled up in religion. I think that you could have an atheist who believes with just as much conviction that abortion is decidedly wrong in any circumstance. Although I am starting to consider myself an ex-Catholic, I still believe that abortion is GENERALLY not a good thing. Let me clarify what I mean here. I do not think that abortion should be used as a "kind" of birth control. That is, people should take care to use protection when having sex and do all they can to stop unwanted pregnancies before they actually happen. I think it wrong for people to engage in unsafe sex, knowing that if "something happens" an abortion is handy and will fix everything. Granted, there are times when even the most responsible people find themselves pregnant. Maybe they can't afford to have a baby? What if that baby would be raised in squalid conditions Is it really being pro-life to allow dictate that babies must be born into this sort of life? Then there are the cases of rape and incest. I used to just say, "Well, it is not fair to punish an innocent human for crimes it had no control over." I used to hold to that jingle "adoption the loving option". It seems like sometimes the Church forgets that there are women and not just babies involved here. Is it pro-life to force a woman to carry a child that was the result of an invasive crime of the most gruesome sort even if doing so would cause her severe, long-lasting pyschological damage? What about the other live children said mother might have to care for? Is it fair to the well-being of these born children to put their mother through that kind of damaging trauma? I guess I think that abortion should not be made illegal. However, it should not just be administered to any woman on a whim. A woman should consult with her doctor in order to determine the MOST pro-life approach for her situation. And pro-life here does not mean "the baby must live at any cost". It means looking at all aspects of that woman's life situation. The problem with making abortion illegal is that people will do it anyway. We all know that illegal abortions can be scary things indeed. I have decided that the best approach is to keep abortion legal, provide appropriate medical/other counselling before giving it, and improve social conditions such that women will be less likely to seek abortions. I think that this approach is more pro-life than just banning abortions. It takes everyone's well-being into account. Not providing safe, legal abortions will not significantly decrease the number of abortions. It will simply displaces where the abortions occur and increases the number of unsafe abortions. I don't think this is the best expression of what I think about this topic, but forgive me. I am very sick, and very tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I do not think that abortion should be used as a "kind" of birth control. That is, people should take care to use protection when having sex and do all they can to stop unwanted pregnancies before they actually happen. I think it wrong for people to engage in unsafe sex, knowing that if "something happens" an abortion is handy and will fix everything. Have to agree -- but the vast majority of people do NOT think ahead when it comes to sex. Then there are the cases of rape and incest. I used to just say, "Well, it is not fair to punish an innocent human for crimes it had no control over." I used to hold to that jingle "adoption the loving option". It seems like sometimes the Church forgets that there are women and not just babies involved here. Is it pro-life to force a woman to carry a child that was the result of an invasive crime of the most gruesome sort even if doing so would cause her severe, long-lasting pyschological damage? What about the other live children said mother might have to care for? Is it fair to the well-being of these born children to put their mother through that kind of damaging trauma? I think it's not that the church forgets, but that it doesn't care about women. Remember, fundamentalist Christianity dehumanizes women. Our lives are worth less to the church than men, despite the fact that it takes both a woman and a man to make a baby boy. Christianity has a male hierarchy and that's a huge reason why we live in a patriarchial society (at least, in America). One thing I asked as a child growing up is, if you make abortion illegal, how will you punish the women who have one? Do you really want to throw a woman in jail for the rest of her life because she was raped and got pregnant? Because that would be the logical end result if abortion were made illegal, and it's hardly fair to the woman who already went through a great deal of trauma. Also, if abortion is made illegal, desperate women will go to back alleys and have coathangar abortions again, or take weird herbal concoctions they order online through some fly-by-night site, that could have deadlier side effects than they expected. That is not something I want to see happen. Or they'll go to Canada or Mexico to get it done, if they can afford to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixolite Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 One thing I asked as a child growing up is, if you make abortion illegal, how will you punish the women who have one? Do you really want to throw a woman in jail for the rest of her life because she was raped and got pregnant? And this was why I had come to El Salvador: Abortion is a serious felony here for everyone involved, including the woman who has the abortion. Some young women are now serving prison sentences, a few as long as 30 years. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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