The "oh Crap What Have I Done" Phase

[peejay]

I'll be honest, I only admitted this to myself on December 21st. On Christmas Eve I hit the "oh no" wall. It had nothing to do with the holiday simply that fear that I was throwing it all away by deconverting. The truth of the matter is I have been on this road to atheism for quite sometime but oh man. It just isn't what I expected.

 

I've been in a church that has serious problems with what religious people have made Christianity to be especially in America. They are esentially charasmatic but their whole deal is intimacy with god. They don't evangelize because they don't belive that saying the magic words (sinners prayer) saves people but rather a relationship with god. "connecting to the living god" is a pretty common phrase there. They don't believe the bible is the word of god but they acknowledge it's truth. Not necessarily in a literal way but as "types and shadows". They believe that it is a mystery that has to be revealed by the holy spirit. I think these beliefs have made deconversion harder for me because I keep thinking stupid things like " oh you poor exchristians, I'd be an atheist too if I was stuck in the religious system" or "they just don't understand the mystery" which I know is ridiculous but man. This sucks. I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

On the one hand I totally fear telling my friends. My entire social circle has been church people since I was fourteen. My entire identity is wrapped up in this. On the other hand they don't call or email or text to check up on me since I've been less than faithful in attendance lately. It's not like things will really change but I feel like I'm burning bridges or something.

 

Thanks for letting me express these feelings. Sorry if it doesn't make a lot of sense but it's hard to post from an iPhone. LOL.

[R. S. Martin]

Welcome to the forums, peejay. Give yourself some time. Deconversion is difficult for most of us. If affects identity and way of thinking and being. I think a number of things figure into the equation, only one of which is the type of religion we come from. I find these forums to be an excellent place to work through thoughts and feelings. I really enjoyed your post about Christmas and your daycare. As you settle into the routine of the new year you might find yourself taking on a new identity that will fit your beliefs. I wish you all the best.

[florduh]

I think most of us know how you feel. It will get better.

 

Unfortunately (?) church friends are usually just that. If you don't share their beliefs, they have no use for you. In that case you have to realize they never did love/like you for who you really are. Your new friends will quickly fill the gap.

 

It's almost unheard of to go back once you have investigated and understood the problems with the faith. Christianity preys on weakness and rules through fear. The mindset can be hard to break. Hang in there, you're not alone.

[par4dcourse]

:whs: It takes time. You'll find lots of help any many friends here. Welcome.

[jdog]

I'll be honest, I only admitted this to myself on December 21st. On Christmas Eve I hit the "oh no" wall. It had nothing to do with the holiday simply that fear that I was throwing it all away by deconverting. The truth of the matter is I have been on this road to atheism for quite sometime but oh man. It just isn't what I expected.

 

I've been in a church that has serious problems with what religious people have made Christianity to be especially in America. They are esentially charasmatic but their whole deal is intimacy with god. They don't evangelize because they don't belive that saying the magic words (sinners prayer) saves people but rather a relationship with god. "connecting to the living god" is a pretty common phrase there. They don't believe the bible is the word of god but they acknowledge it's truth. Not necessarily in a literal way but as "types and shadows". They believe that it is a mystery that has to be revealed by the holy spirit. I think these beliefs have made deconversion harder for me because I keep thinking stupid things like " oh you poor exchristians, I'd be an atheist too if I was stuck in the religious system" or "they just don't understand the mystery" which I know is ridiculous but man. This sucks. I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

On the one hand I totally fear telling my friends. My entire social circle has been church people since I was fourteen. My entire identity is wrapped up in this. On the other hand they don't call or email or text to check up on me since I've been less than faithful in attendance lately. It's not like things will really change but I feel like I'm burning bridges or something.

 

Thanks for letting me express these feelings. Sorry if it doesn't make a lot of sense but it's hard to post from an iPhone. LOL.

 

Hello Peejay

It does take time, you have support here, this place has really helped me. It sounds your situation is slightly different to what I and maybe others have experienced. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you. The benefit of coming to Ex C is that everyone here has varying degrees of how far they were into the religion, different denominations, differing doctrines, varying experiences, some alot worse than others. But we all mutually have come to a unified conclusion and that is, christianity is a religion we no longer believe nor want to be part of. You will have a safe place to come to and can express yourself and will have support.

 

I have come quite a way since I left xianity in April '08, and am happy with being agnostic, but still now and again I will have a 'relapse' so to speak, like the other day an automatic response to a situation was for me to begin to pray, then it just seemed stupid and I was like what am I doing who am I talking to? And christmas for me did raise up thoughts of 'what if' dispite all the reasoning and lack of evidence etc...It's difficult when you have been taught something your whole life.

 

Anyhow

Welcome and Happy New Year

[pitchu]

I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

There's probably something to this. A person who's been cruelly treated within an aberrant xian cult of some kind certainly knows exactly and specifically what to renounce, and why. But with the filmy xian experience you're describing, there's not that much to rail against -- there's only your new conviction that you choose rational thinking over magical thinking. And if you lose a lot of socialization and put yourself in a spin in the process, you're bound to "hit the wall," as you put it.

 

Rewards will come, peejay, but I do sympathize and I do see the pickle you're in.

[Snafutopia]

I'll be honest, I only admitted this to myself on December 21st. On Christmas Eve I hit the "oh no" wall.

 

uh... I'm confused, do you mean Christmas Eve of 2007? Or do you mean December 31st instead of 21st? No biggie, I'm just trying to be up front that I'm confused by the timing thing.

 

 

It had nothing to do with the holiday simply that fear that I was throwing it all away by deconverting. The truth of the matter is I have been on this road to atheism for quite sometime but oh man. It just isn't what I expected.

 

I've been in a church that has serious problems with what religious people have made Christianity to be especially in America. They are esentially charasmatic but their whole deal is intimacy with god. They don't evangelize because they don't belive that saying the magic words (sinners prayer) saves people but rather a relationship with god. "connecting to the living god" is a pretty common phrase there. They don't believe the bible is the word of god but they acknowledge it's truth. Not necessarily in a literal way but as "types and shadows". They believe that it is a mystery that has to be revealed by the holy spirit. I think these beliefs have made deconversion harder for me because I keep thinking stupid things like " oh you poor exchristians, I'd be an atheist too if I was stuck in the religious system" or "they just don't understand the mystery" which I know is ridiculous but man. This sucks. I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

On the one hand I totally fear telling my friends. My entire social circle has been church people since I was fourteen. My entire identity is wrapped up in this. On the other hand they don't call or email or text to check up on me since I've been less than faithful in attendance lately. It's not like things will really change but I feel like I'm burning bridges or something.

 

Thanks for letting me express these feelings. Sorry if it doesn't make a lot of sense but it's hard to post from an iPhone. LOL.

 

 

That kind of church sounds interesting. Wow, I've never been in that kind of church and am not sure what it would be like. It certainly would be different in a big way, from what I'm used to (Baptist, specifically American Baptist Association Baptist, and located in small town and rural South to boot).

 

And the feeling of burning bridges is a big thing, emotionally. So, sincere sympathies, truly.

 

I'm kinda new here (just a couple of weeks) so I'm not sure if it's p.c., but I do want to say, if you find yourself somewhere along the way believing again in the church's teachings and ways of thinking, I for one will have nothing but sympathy for you. No hostility, no condemnation. And I imagine at least some other people here will feel the same way.

 

I just wanted to tell you that in case you're finding your thoughts aligning more with the church you're going to, rather than atheism/agnosticism/etc.

 

There's already so much fear tangled up in the whole religion thing that nobody needs more piled on top of that. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person whose loss of faith involved a lot of -- my own fear sure but also the fear of people around me. My husband, well our kids were too young to understand, but they were afraid too. Thankfully they espressed their fear as sorrow and loving concern for me, while the church people expressed their fear as anger/hostility/suspicion.

 

There was no one, and no program or class at church to help people who were losing their faith. To comfort them and reassure them that no matter where their search for "truth" and "meaning" led them, they were still loved and still valued members of human society.

 

If or when the reverse occurs -- an exChristian begins to believe again, and returns to church -- it would be sad, because it would be returning to delusion and a system we believe is dishonest and corrupt, but certainly I don't think anybody here is going to hate them or treat them like they were traitors or whatever.

 

So if you're worried about that (and I don't know that you are of course), just wanted to reassure you.

 

Uh, not that it's any of my business, and I certainly don't have the right to speak for anybody here except myself of course.

[peejay]

December 21, 2008 was the day that I finally realized that I don't believe God exists. Sorry for the confusion. In retrospect, it was a conclusion that I was heading toward for years. I'm less worried about the fallout now. I just want to have all the information available to me so I can answer questions that people have for me should the need arise. My pastor used to tell me that I was too smart for my own good when I would ask questions and that should have been a red flag. Any system of belief that asks one to suspend intellegence, logic, and critical thinking is highly suspect, in my opinion. Thanks for the support and encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.

[PocketAces]

I'll be honest, I only admitted this to myself on December 21st. On Christmas Eve I hit the "oh no" wall. It had nothing to do with the holiday simply that fear that I was throwing it all away by deconverting. The truth of the matter is I have been on this road to atheism for quite sometime but oh man. It just isn't what I expected.

 

I've been in a church that has serious problems with what religious people have made Christianity to be especially in America. They are esentially charasmatic but their whole deal is intimacy with god. They don't evangelize because they don't belive that saying the magic words (sinners prayer) saves people but rather a relationship with god. "connecting to the living god" is a pretty common phrase there. They don't believe the bible is the word of god but they acknowledge it's truth. Not necessarily in a literal way but as "types and shadows". They believe that it is a mystery that has to be revealed by the holy spirit. I think these beliefs have made deconversion harder for me because I keep thinking stupid things like " oh you poor exchristians, I'd be an atheist too if I was stuck in the religious system" or "they just don't understand the mystery" which I know is ridiculous but man. This sucks. I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

On the one hand I totally fear telling my friends. My entire social circle has been church people since I was fourteen. My entire identity is wrapped up in this. On the other hand they don't call or email or text to check up on me since I've been less than faithful in attendance lately. It's not like things will really change but I feel like I'm burning bridges or something.

 

Thanks for letting me express these feelings. Sorry if it doesn't make a lot of sense but it's hard to post from an iPhone. LOL.

i was involved with those type of churches for awhile. the stuff they have to offer is hard to let go. the mystery is intoxicating and becomes vital.

 

what helped me out tho, and the issue didn't last too long once i realized this for myself. what they had to offer was the same thing as abusing alcohol was for me was. createing illusions, no matter of the problems your dealing can never be a positive, never. it is harmful and what they have to offer is a delusion, and a harmful delusion because of how one, addicting i can be, and because of how deep it can reach into us. a relationship with god, or connecting to a living god, is the same as being connecting and having a relationship with yourself. its all based on your own desires, your own beliefs, and you find the justification to pursue such things through this idea of "god".

 

when you realize that giving up unhealthy emotional and mental delusions, it isn't that hard afterwards to leave it, at least it wasn't for me. if your looking for truth, it isn't hard to give up a lie, once you realize how destructive that lie was to your life, and when you realize how much of a lie it is that they preach on.

 

my old friends don't keep in contact with me either, meaning the ones that are were and still highly religious. well two or three do once in awhile so i can't say all of them, now that i think about it, but the majority don't. hell, i remember one time being at a gas station and the pastor that baptized me, and was involved with my life saw me, and didn't even say anything to me. i write them off now. it may be because life happens, and that's fine. either way i have written them off.

 

it sucks having to change your social structure. when i was a kid, my social structure was Christians. then college taught me how unrealistic that was, and i was still a Christian, a struggling one at that time, but still one. then over time, my structure was mixed with both Christian and non-Christian. but i came to a point that while still believeing, i felt i couldn't relate to either side. to where now, i'm 27 and i'm still trying to figure out how to create a social structure that is beyond just work, family. i have primairly two friends. it will eventually come out to your friends that your no longer a believer, whether you want it to or not. you just deal with it, and work on it. it sucks from time to time, but oh well. if living a life of honesty alienates people from my life, then all i can say is goodbye and learn to start over with createing a social structure that i can be productive in. i'm still in the process of figuring it out for my own life, but i don't regret it one bit.

 

best of luck for you

[PocketAces]

I wonder if it's worse when you are leaving nontraditional Christianity.

 

There's probably something to this. A person who's been cruelly treated within an aberrant xian cult of some kind certainly knows exactly and specifically what to renounce, and why. But with the filmy xian experience you're describing, there's not that much to rail against -- there's only your new conviction that you choose rational thinking over magical thinking. And if you lose a lot of socialization and put yourself in a spin in the process, you're bound to "hit the wall," as you put it.

 

Rewards will come, peejay, but I do sympathize and I do see the pickle you're in.

for me there was a bunch of things to rail against. the filmy christian experiences(which btw, that's a great way to put it, i never thought of that myself ) is like a drug. there was a difference between these experiences and the church experience coming from other expressions in Christianity. the filmy christian experience is addicting. it reaches a part of you that makes you believe, this is actually real beyond theological beliefs, but the building that is called church. that there is some extremely spiritual and powerful guiding your life and that you feel it, you experience it everyday. its charismatic, emotional, appealing.

 

my father, who is luthern now, but i wouldn't call him a typical religious man, i like that about him even tho i'm atheist, i like the fact that he's not a typical religious man, i remember when i was young, and i was getting into churches that the OP mentioned about, he always warned me, and just said, "Joe be careful." it wasn't based on theological disagreements that he had that i can remember. i wish i would have listened when i was younger. there's something strange to that side of Christianity. the cult-like attributes, and the way that those beliefs really can get into your head and what they can do.

 

the last time i was in a church described somewhat like what the OP described, i remember sitting there, looking around and thinking, "what the fuck?" i never went back to those churches after that. then of course, over time my faith left, but many of my arguments against Christianity apply to Christianity as a whole, but there's a special side that i have even more angst against the type of churches that the OP described. spiritualized, delusional people at its prime in Christianity as far as i'm concerned and the bad thing is, they have and still have the ability to reach and affect many people's lives.

[Amethyst]

The last church I went to was a liberal one. I was there about a year. By that time I had spent years in a conservative Lutheran church and it seemed so wishy-washy to me to cherry pick everything.

 

I suppose if you grew up with liberal religion, then you might have a different reaction. But nevertheless, it is still giving up magical thinking for rational thought. That can be hard in a society where people are rewarded for magical thought.

[Amethyst]

The last church I went to was a liberal one. I was there about a year. By that time I had spent years in a conservative Lutheran church and it seemed so wishy-washy to me to cherry pick everything.

 

I suppose if you grew up with liberal religion, then you might have a different reaction. But nevertheless, it is still giving up magical thinking for rational thought. That can be hard in a society where people are rewarded for magical thought.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

The last church I went to was a liberal one. I was there about a year. By that time I had spent years in a conservative Lutheran church and it seemed so wishy-washy to me to cherry pick everything.

 

I suppose if you grew up with liberal religion, then you might have a different reaction. But nevertheless, it is still giving up magical thinking for rational thought. That can be hard in a society where people are rewarded for magical thought.

 

The Conservatives cherry pick just as much as the liberals do. They just don't cherry pick the same things.

 

Realizing just how the conservatives cherry pick was a major part of getting out of the "mindgame" for me. In the end this means that the liberals are more intellectually honest in certain ways than the conservatives are, but in the end they are still engaging in magical thinking and mentally dipping themselves in religious illusions.

[Snafutopia]

Speaking of social structure, and missing it after leaving church ... a fellow ex-c posted this at a discussion forum we hang out at and it just really sounds wonderful. You might see if there's anything like this in your area. If there isn't, how about starting one?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...prss=rss_nation

 

 

 

...

[peejay]

That was an interesting article. I might look for a meetup group or something in the Fort Worth area. It's only an hour away.

 

I added a bunch of atheist groups on my facebook page so I've decided to let people come to their own conclusions.

 

I did spend the morning throwing out xtian books and I'm about to hit the music shelf. It was LIBERATING! I'm no longer a slave to my own imaginations.

 

When I was a kid I wanted to be an astronaut. In junior high, I got "saved" and wanted to be a missionary. I've spent the last twenty years just goofing around town. I am classified as a senior in college but quit going because I had no real direction. Nothing really appealed to me and I decided I was wasting time and money because if I wasn't going to be a missionary, I certainly wasn't going to leave my local cult. Last while goofing around I discovered astrobiology. The fields I LOVE the most but never could make myself study out of fear my religious beliefs would be slighted. Now I'm free to pursue this and I'm freakin' excited. Not only that, but my university (which is a state school, part of the Texas A&M system) has added an Astronomy program and I could easily double major in Astronomy and Biology. It's like being a little kid again, with the whole world open to me.

 

Now I just need to figure out what to do about these tattoos...lol.

[decafaholic]

December 21, 2008 was the day that I finally realized that I don't believe God exists

Remember that date! It's a good feeling when you can say "I've made it one month...I've made it two months." When I celebrated a year, it was a great day!

I just want to have all the information available to me so I can answer questions that people have for me should the need arise.

Don't be surprised if it's really tough to explain your situation. Also, give yourself permission to not have all the answers. Even when you come up with a good explanation, most Christians won't really be listening to you, they'll just be waiting for their turn to talk. Sad but true in my case.

My pastor used to tell me that I was too smart for my own good when I would ask questions and that should have been a red flag

Lol, I've been told the same thing!

 

I think everyone goes through the oh crap, what have i done phase. What helped me was telling myself I could always go back if I had enough evidence that Christianity was true. I never did find a reason to go back.

[peejay]

Well the first of my xtian friends noticed something was awry with my facebook page today. I received this message:

 

"PJ,

What's up with your becoming a fan of all those people who mock God? That surprises me..."

 

My answer was simple...Bill Maher can be a jerk, but he's funny and I agree with him on some stuff. Richard Dawkins is a brilliant scientist, and Carl Sagan has been my hero since I was a little kid and first saw Cosmos.

 

I didn't feel the need to get into a whole lot of detail with her. If she pushes the issue, I'll tell her, but I'm not going to offer any more information than is absolutely necessary at the time. I don't even know why I care. When I first got her message, I got a slightly sick feeling in my stomach. The people I go to church with, probably don't know who those people are (except Bill Maher) but Kathrine knows because not only is she uber fundie, she's one of those that spends her Saturdays outside of abortion clinics with red LIFE tape on her mouth. Then she goes heresy hunting with the rest of her fundie friends. Shit, why did I ever surround myself with these people? :angry: