Pastor Father's Emails

[marroncream]

Dear all,

 

I have just joined ex-christian.net because I've decided that since it's a new year, I should take concrete steps to save my sanity from my fundamentalist parents' brainwashing attempts. My parents converted to Christianity when I was 6 years old, and I've gone to church until I was 21. I am 25 years old now, but I still feel like Christianity and the church have a stronghold on me, like emotional blackmail, because my dad has recently been ordained as pastor, so I am a pastor's daughter now. Every time I visit my parents, there is never a question of me not going to church with them on Sunday, because even before my dad became a pastor he was an important figure at church, so my showing up at church when in town was as much a show of family solidarity as it was for religious purposes. I don't really mind having to sit through 2 hours of sermon, but what pains me is having to fake a big smile and pretend to be what I am not. Going to church was always something I put up with rather than enjoyed, because I never got along with anybody at church, I found them 'unreal', it seemed like everybody was everybody's best friend, when in real life you have to have something to offer to make friends, at church there was a ready-made group of friends. It felt like a community for the socially awkward. I also only went to church because I was afraid of going to hell, I thought I had no choice because if I don't believe in God, I'm going to hell, so I went to church reluctantly. I only finally stopped going to church after having a religious crisis during university, being surrounded by atheists doings things I wasn't supposed to do, and having never had a strong conviction for Christianity, I naturally fell by the wayside and stopped being a Christian.

 

I only graduated from university last July, and became financially independent in August, but I felt like it would be the start of a new beginning because if I live in a different country from my parents and they don't have to support me financially anymore, surely they can loosen their religious hold on me now? I didn't work, in fact, they seem to be more fervently preaching and emotionally blackmailing me now by the form of email. The thing that makes my parents religious tyranny worse is the fact that we are Chinese, and Asian families hold family values in high regard, meaning that kids are always to obey their parents, no matter how old they are. If you argue, you are disrespecting your parents. So I have the double-whammy of fundamentalist Christian Asian persecution.

 

To give you a taste of what I get in my email inbox every other day, here are some select quotes:

 

' Free will does not contradict God's masterplan because whether or not we choose to follow him or not, God still carries out His plan of redemption. God does not hope. He decrees and human free will is within God's plan that it does not contradict God's plan.' yet he says:

 

'.....we can do things without God's blessing, and the result can be.................' (Dad's comment when we were discussing marriage. He would prefer if I married a Chinese Christian)

 

'You stopped going to church, did I yell? It's your loss, really. Instead of witnessing to the world, the world has overcome you.' (He always portrays me as a passive person that has been corrupted rather than someone who just grew up and made their own choices)

 

'So, you think you have found the city you like to live in? Allow yourself plenty of time to ponder, and remember we have the final say on one of your life's most important decision. One wrong move, you might as well start over again as a baby! ' (I told him I've decided that London is the place for me, and somehow out of the blue, he dragged marriage into the discussion. He puts a lot of emphasis on marriage, always saying that one wrong move and my life will be over)

 

' I am about the only person on earth who has the authority, position and historical reason to lecture you even though you are 25. God lectures me every day, and it is my duty to tell my children what's right or wrong. '

 

'Are you being an Anti-Christ??' (yelled by my mom with wild eyes when I visited 2 weeks ago, because I told her I really don't like going to church and don't like church people)

 

'you are not just lucky to get this position. Like I said, you are in an enviable position that almost all HK Baptist Churches pray for our situation' (when I told my dad that I was lucky to get a job so quickly)

 

'The truth is the truth is the truth. No amount of persecution will stop people delivering GOD's message or preach to others something not in the Bible, or avoid teaching what people don't like to hear. In the Roman empire, sodomy, all kinds of sexual activities including homosexual ones were just one factor that brought down the whole empire. Before a country goes down, its moral standard always goes down in tandem if not faster. You can say that the Chinese Communist Party is following the same route. Their only hope is if Christianity in China spreads wide and fast enough to turn people away from their sinful ways to avert their collapse.'

 

there were also some quite threatening quotes that I couldn't find, alongide the lines of 'God will punish you if you don't follow his will', and many pepperings of various bible verses throughout emails.

 

I know I might sound a bit ungrateful for having parents who care so much about my wellbeing, but the way they are expressing their love to me is starting to cause me much distress. I want to see a shrink to see what I can do about it, but I can't afford it. I can't argue with them because they are so deeply ingrained in their beliefs that it's useless to try to make them understand, as many of you would know. On top of that, they accuse me of 'losing my Chinese traditionalism' when I try to assert my independence and different opinions. My dad says that I have been brainwashed by the liberal West and that I don't know it. It might be hard for you to understand if you are not from a culture where parents are supreme, but right now I feel a deep dreadful feeling inside me because of my parents, and this is the only source of unhappiness in my life right now. I feel guilty for living my life as I see fit, but I know that life is short and I need to do what I think is right, but it hurts that what makes me happy (not being a Christian, not going to church, living with my boyfriend) is what my parents see as mortal sin. They don't even know that I live with my boyfriend, if they did, I would have hell to pay, despite being 25 and financially independent.

 

I would like to hear what your thoughts are about this situation, any help would be appreciated. Thank you very much!

[Vigile]

This is a very tough situation. Given that I'm not Chinese I can't empathize with your cultural rules easily so I don't know if I can offer you much advice.

 

Personally, it would be an unacceptable situation for me. My parents also wanted me to attend church with them when I came home for a visit. I made it clear to them that I would not go and they have since respected my decision and haven't pushed the issue. It doesn't sound to me as if things would go quite so smoothly in your family if you were to take the same stand.

 

This means you need to ask yourself a hard question. If taking a stand on this issue means alienating your family and you is that better or worse than putting up with the phony front they are forcing you to put up with when you visit? Only you can answer this for yourself.

 

I do know that if you stand up to your family and pay a price then you will have friends here that will listen and understand and be there for you. And, if you just decide to bite your lip and suck it up you will have lots of people here who are willing to hear you rant about it as you blow off necessary steam.

 

I wish you the best.

[florduh]

As Vigile said, I am not aware of the cultural nuances that might be involved in your family dynamics. All I can tell you is what I would do (and actually did) in a similar situation.

 

My fundy father was a constant irritation my entire adult life. At one point, while he was schooling me on Creationism at age 50, I told him flat out that this had to stop. I told him I was an adult with beliefs different than his; that I arrived at my conclusions through experience, observation and study. I told him I respected his beliefs and I expected the same from him. I demand respect for my beliefs. I told him we would always differ on many things, as people do, and he would have to allow that his way was fine for him but not necessarily right for others. He had to stop pushing his personal beliefs on me or we could have no further contact.

 

That confrontation brought some relief, though there was always the undercurrent and unspoken disapproval of every thought that didn't come from his church's interpretation of the Bible. We never could have a regular conversation, but the relentless attacks stopped.

[youngster84]

Hello marroncream!

 

 

<Quote> You stopped going to church, did I yell? It's your loss, really. </Quote>

 

When I read this, I really had to smile. Because when I left my home and couldn't find a church I liked to be at, it was exactly the same. I was told by all former friends and my father, that it was my own fault that I had problems, because I would not belong to any church any more. It's a simple but cruel logic they have.

_________________________________

 

You have every right to be ungrateful and even upset about your prosecuting parents! It's very understandable that their "love" causes you much distress!

It may seem that they care about you, but do they care about YOU or about what they would like you to be?

 

It is very understandable that you feel guilty right now, because you (and most of us) have been told from the beginning on that we have no right for living our true self and for trusting ourselves, our feelings and making our own decissions.

 

I can very much relate with what you write about your parents. What your parents really fear is your independence, because it makes them unsure about their own worldview. It has nothing to do with you as a person that they don't accept you for what you are or want to be. They are afraid of loosing control over you, because it's the control over others that makes them feel good and right. That's why your father became a pastor, I guess.

The way this man tries to convince you of the idea of marriage is a perfect example. He wants to see you under control, surrendered and not free. People like him think that freedom is dangerous, because he never learned to trust his own feelings. That's why they need a controling dogma aka religion and customs that tell them what is right and wrong.

 

I am not chinese, but I grew up with the warning that to rebell against my parents is the worst of all sins. It's this fear factor and threat that many parents use on their children to make them feel terrible and give us the feeling we would have no right to have our own life ever!

 

You can be very proud of you for being financially independent! You were really brave to not let them turn you down by all their crude and moral frauds!

In my eyes, what your parents wrote to you in their mails is nothing but crude, mean and oppressive! It isn't your fault that they don't want to understand who you really are and how you want to live.

[mahjong]

I could barely stand to read what your parents say to you in e-mails. I don't know how you can take it.

 

You do have the right not to read the emails. You can have a close friend scan them for you and advise you if there is any news worth mentioning.

 

Most families have their special brand of head tripping. It's awful. The older you get the less it bothers you because you don't need them as much, emotionally speaking. If only they would see that they are taking away the friendship they could have with you.

 

At one point in my life I didn't have anything to do with my mother for 10 years (I was 28-38). She was determined that I be her clone, not in a religious sense, but emotionally. In the interim we both went to therapy and eventually we worked things out to where we are very close now. Closer than we would have been, I'm fairly sure, if I had just put up with her. But everyone's road is individual, so I am not saying this is what you should do!

 

I wonder what 'Dear Abby' would say?

[ShackledNoMore]

Wow, marroncream, like the others who have responded, I am not Chinese, but there seems to be an element of manipulation in your parents' behavior that transcends culture. I do not think you sound ungrateful. If your parents are trying to show an expression of love through all of this, it is misguided at best (again, I think this transcends culture). Come to think about it, (I don't know the details, so this may or may not apply), but I wonder how THEIR parents felt about it when they converted to xianity?

 

I don't know the best way to deal with Chinese fundamentalist xian pastor parents, but I DO know that you need to tend to your own sanity, your own wellbeing, and however you choose to handle the situation with your parents, I think that "to thine own self be true" is good advice. A thinking mind is a wonderful thing, and I believe you have that to help you navigate both your deconversion and your relationship with your parents.

 

One last thing that I think is good for anyone who has left xianity behind. You said:

I only finally stopped going to church after having a religious crisis during university, being surrounded by atheists doings things I wasn't supposed to do, and having never had a strong conviction for Christianity, I naturally fell by the wayside and stopped being a Christian.

If you haven't done so already, or haven't done so fully, I encourage you to critically examine the claims of xianity, arguments from both apologists and skeptics, refutations, and thoroughly look at the evidence to support or not support belief. Like many here, I have done so and found no basis to continue my belief in xianity. In my opinion, a thorough examination can only help maintain your sanity in the face of your parents' continued religious pressure.

[R. S. Martin]

Marroncream, I come from a non-modern culture where parents are supreme, and the values are pretty much as you describe for your parents. My mother passed away and my father is no longer young but my siblings do what they can to take over where Mom and Dad left off. My suggestion would be to either block your parents' email or delete without reading. The decision is yours but there are a number of us on here who have taken drastic steps to protect ourselves from unwanted attention from abusive family.

 

I haven't read all the other replies in this thread; maybe I'm repeating what someone else posted. My family don't have computers because of their religion but they have disrespected my wishes for no letters. I have thrown out letters unopened, and even returned letters and gifts. They keep on sending stuff.

 

Whether or not I accept it depends on how I feel, who sends it, and what they say. I have one sister with whom I shared a home for fifteen years. The other day we had our first decent telephone conversation in about 28 months. In other words, it was the first decent conversation since she found out about my deconversion. I also find myself accepting letters and gifts from my youngest sister with whom I share no childhood memories. That is the only truly positive relating I've had with my family since my deconversion. A year ago my youngest sister sent me a CD with music I really like and this year she sent me a package of homemade goodies that I liked. The relationships with both these sisters are very, very tentative. I look elsewhere for "family."

 

It seems you have established your own home and family and are well-positioned to cut ties if you so wish. It will cut to the marrow and you will feel guilty like all get-out but if that is what it takes to save your sanity then so be it; the incision will heal. People who want a relationship with their biological kin have to treat them with respect. We do, after all, have a choice of more than six billion others to choose from.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Dear all,

 

I have just joined ex-christian.

 

<snipped Full Quote kFL>

 

in. They don't even know that I live with my boyfriend, if they did, I would have hell to pay, despite being 25 and financially independent.

 

I would like to hear what your thoughts are about this situation, any help would be appreciated. Thank you very much!

 

When people act like children I usually treat them and visualize them as children, my parents are no exception.

 

Your parents are behaving like a school yard bully in the 5th grade who cannot get his/her way by guilt tripping you using only the simpler routines.

 

I suggest you treat your parents accordingly.

 

They are beneath you, point blank. Until such a time as they behave in an responsible fashion, treat them as if they are behaving irresponsibly. They are behaving that way, and if you treat them as such then it will work.

 

Force the point. Force them to rise to a level of responsible adult behavior that you feel comfortable with. You don't owe respect to dishonorable behavior, and the fact that it's coming from your parents only makes it the worse for them. It shouldn't make it the worse for you.

[marroncream]

Dear all,

 

Thank you very much for all your thoughtful replies, it's been very helpful to hear from people who identify with my problem. I'm glad to realise that I am not an ungrateful child and that my parents are genuinely overbearing. It will take some time to truly assert myself to them, but I trust that I can make it.

 

Thank you again!

[R. S. Martin]

Dear all,

 

Thank you very much for all your thoughtful replies, it's been very helpful to hear from people who identify with my problem. I'm glad to realise that I am not an ungrateful child and that my parents are genuinely overbearing. It will take some time to truly assert myself to them, but I trust that I can make it.

 

I hear you!

 

Take all the time you need. There is no time limit on this like they make you feel when it come to "making a decision for Christ."

[.god]

hey marron,

 

that definitely sounds like a double whammy. i'm fortunate my parents are very liberal and westernized even by western asian standards, but i have heard plenty of tales of over controlling chinese parents from them. one including a dad who withdrew all financial support because his son did not choose to study one of the approved fields of medicine. his son wanted to study engineering.

 

the chinese mentality can be pretty fucked up regarding career, marraige and children. from you british spelling and mention of hk i'm guessing your family is cantonese? by all accounts some of the most traditional chinese parents i know of are cantonese.

 

as someone else mentioned you should definitely let your parents know that since you respect their right to believe their bs, they should better respect your right to believe whatever you choose to. for crying out loud you're 25. draw the boundries now and be firm with them. every chinese person i know who has had over controlling parents has had the guilt trip shit drilled into them from birth. don't fall prey to it.

 

from.your examples it seems obvious that saving face is more important to your parents than your well being. i guess that is something you will find ingrained into many traditional chinese of the older generation. i think in these more modern times it comes off as much more selfish on their part.

 

in reality

[Internet Jesus]

Wow, if I have ever related to a testimony...

 

Distance, and education. If you are financially separate from your parents, you need to close them off with your individuality. Let them know that their eagerness is damaging to your relationship.

 

Hit the books! Open a card with your local library. Start thinking your own way. Explore wikipedia! Build a wealth of your individuality. Make sure that your parents understand that you are not forcing them out of your life. They are just one voice in many now. They need to respect that you respect yourself enough to give them limits. They need to respect that you are making is the strong choice even if they don't agree with it. Certainly they agree with integrity?

 

That was the chunk of 'good advice' nonsense I think every post deserves.

On a personal note, it's unfortunate that your parents are serving you the morality kick.

I can't begin to imagine what it must be like to have the weight of an entire nation resting on your immoral behavior!

 

Keep us updated.

[Ixchel]

I agree with most of the replies here, but wanted to offer my support.

 

-hugs-

 

The way your parents are acting is ridiculous. I'm reminded of a bully and a smooth talker, like a used car salesman. I also hate how they are demeaning your independence by suggesting that the world has overtaken you. Such bs. I say stand up to them. They may be your parents but they aren't your providers anymore.

[ClaraOlive]

My situation with my family was very similar.

 

I am Asian, but my parents are white and I don't follow any Asian cultural practices (even the non-religious seem to have a big emphasis on submission). However, I used to get the same type of preaching and emotional blackmail from them. Even as an adult they tried to tell me who I could and couldn't date, and told me that they had the god-given authority to continue to tell me how I should live. Anything I did against their will as an adult was met with "well we can't stop you but... [big religious guilt trip]".

 

I was terrified of the lectures and tears that I'd be faced with if I stood up to them. I let it control my life for far too long, because I was afraid of disappointing them. Like you, I believed and still do that they cared about me and didn't want to hurt them.

 

But when I did finally stand up to them, life went on, they backed off a lot (and since you're financially independent, you can force this to some extent), and I've become much happier. You've been compromising a lot and backing down partly because you love them, but remember that if they truly love you, and I believe they do, they will be just as afraid of losing you.

 

I don't think you need a big defiant coming out, but as things come up, state what you are going or not going to do (don't say- I don't want to..., say I am not going to...), don't get into a lot of justifications, and don't get dragged into an argument. If you only visit your parents a few times a year, going to church with them might be a compromise you can make. But if it's more often or they want you to do other religious activities, say "I'm not going to church tomorrow. I am going out with a friend. I'll see you at dinner". And when they say "God is going to judge you, you need to show up because I'm a pastor, blah, blah", just say "I respect that you believe that, but this is my decision" and then just go. I've found that I'm tempted to wait around to see what they have to say and defend myself and engage in conversation about it, but it's better not to get wrapped up in that. You have to show them that guilt isn't effective on you anymore.

[marroncream]

Thank you for all your support, at the moment I feel a bit overwhelmed and choked up with emotions. On the one hand I'm happy that so many people seem to relate to my situation, on the other hand I feel the pressure of my dad's authority still looming over me. His most recent email included this gem:

 

'Whether you recoil or not, it is your choice, but I won't tell you the truth in a lighter way just because you are displeased. I have to be true to the truth, and I hope you acknowledge the truth. I am not against you marrying with a different race. On the contrary, your boy friend seem like a good one. I am just telling you from common sense and from statistics - people divorce more often in a different race marriage. Why would you put words in my mouth again? Do you have to be against whatever I say just because I say it (I didno't invent Christianity nor did I invent the statistics).. Just go on the internet and find out.'

 

But then my mom called me and asked me why I was having stupid argument with my dad, and to understand that he tends to write ridiculous things sometimes. It was a bit soothing that my mom could see the silly side to my dad's stern emails, but that's as far as she would go to be on my side, religion-wise.

 

I find it very hard to reason with my dad, because he jumps to conclusions and makes it impossible for you to continue a rational argument. If you said you were pro-homosexuality, he would go 'why don't you go further and accept bestiality and rape then?' You can see that he shuts me up by saying things like 'Do you have to be against whatever I say just because I say it '.

 

It's gonna be difficult truly asserting myself to them, but it really helps to know that there are people who understand.

[pitchu]

Welcome to the forums, marroncream.

 

What a tough spot you're in.

 

As with the telephone call from your mom, I'd suggest giving lavish positive reinforcement to any slightest bit of support offered to you from mom or dad. Respond with love and gratitude when/if they speak in an understanding way with you. This comes from the doctrine, "We teach people how to treat us." Without fully knowing what's going on, they will likely gradually become softer with you because they'll like what they get back from you when they do right by you.

 

Contrariwise, if you can, consider responding only to those parts of your father's emails which aren't full of scoldings and curses. Ignore the scoldings and curses. Don't mention them at all. And in a telephone call, remain silent when the rotten stuff is said then, instead of responding, start talking about some bright moment in your day. When chastised for not responding, say something like, "Well, I thought you'd like to know about this happy____________ (fill in the blank)." Continue to return chastisement with emphasis on what's making you feel good in your life. Divert, divert, divert. It may make them crazy but it's also likely to help them realize their attacks on you are fruitless -- that you're a kind, loving and lovable person with wonderful things happening in your life and That's What You Like And Want To Talk About.

This is the only help I can offer, and I know it may not fit your situation, but it never hurts a person to find every way to focus on the great instead of the nasty elements of her life.

[Trike]

Welcome to the forums! I must reiterate what everyone else has basically said and say that you are not an ungrateful child. Your personal happiness and well-being means so much more than your parents thwarted hopes for you. It is late so maybe I am not as clear as I want to be but consider this; if you do go to church and marry whom your parents want you to and everything else will you be able to be satisfied and be able to respect yourself? Sure, you might be able to convince yourself for a short time that you are just being a good child and that you are happy, but one day you will probably look at yourself in the mirror and feel regret and longing for all the things you wanted to do and accomplish but never did.

 

Why put yourself in a position to feel that in a few years? If you must, cut off contact for a bit (or awhile, depending on how much time you need) and do some soul searching about what you believe and what you want for yourself. After you are fairly firm in your outlook towards yourself and your life then resume contact and see where it goes from there, you may find that in a few months to a few years that your parents cool in their zeal to bring you back to the flock and will become more bearable (they may always feel disappointment, which is hard to deal with if they show it, but the e-mails may slow and their tone may become more tolerable). I still deal with my folks disappointment in me and it is tough, I cannot imagine what it is like with the cultural burdens though.

 

But good luck to you on your journey. It is a winding and oftentimes tough road. Also, I hope you do go forward and move to London, if it is the city for you. I am visiting the British Isles next semester and will hopefully spend a lot of time there!

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Welcome to the forums, marroncream.

 

What a tough spot you're in.

 

As with the telephone call from your mom, I'd suggest giving lavish positive reinforcement to any slightest bit of support offered to you from mom or dad. Respond with love and gratitude when/if they speak in an understanding way with you. This comes from the doctrine, "We teach people how to treat us." Without fully knowing what's going on, they will likely gradually become softer with you because they'll like what they get back from you when they do right by you.

 

Contrariwise, if you can, consider responding only to those parts of your father's emails which aren't full of scoldings and curses. Ignore the scoldings and curses. Don't mention them at all. And in a telephone call, remain silent when the rotten stuff is said then, instead of responding, start talking about some bright moment in your day. When chastised for not responding, say something like, "Well, I thought you'd like to know about this happy____________ (fill in the blank)." Continue to return chastisement with emphasis on what's making you feel good in your life. Divert, divert, divert. It may make them crazy but it's also likely to help them realize their attacks on you are fruitless -- that you're a kind, loving and lovable person with wonderful things happening in your life and That's What You Like And Want To Talk About.

This is the only help I can offer, and I know it may not fit your situation, but it never hurts a person to find every way to focus on the great instead of the nasty elements of her life.

 

This actually sounds like the best advice of any I have seen so far.

[NaturalSelection]

On top of that, they accuse me of 'losing my Chinese traditionalism' when I try to assert my independence and different opinions. My dad says that I have been brainwashed by the liberal West and that I don't know it.

 

I'm weighing in on this a little late but if you read this here goes: I thought that traditionally the Chinese people were Buddists. If so, wouldn't becoming a x-ian mean that your parents have lost Chinese traditionalism and wouldn't it mean that they are the ones who have been brainwashed by the right-wing West?

 

If say...you'd told your parents that you were no longer a Christian but thought that Buddism made more sense or that you wanted to return to the traditional religion of China.....would that have lessened their hostility? I'm just kind of curious about that? I'm not saying you should become a Buddist or any other religion to please them.

[Crackalackish]

But didn't they step away from being traditional Chinese when they accepted christianity? Why do they get to make a decision, when they were adults, about their choice of religion and you don't?

 

If they wanted you to stay traditional Chinese then they shouldn't have raised you with a Western religion.

 

And I also have to touch on something another poster said...do they really care about YOU, or just the you they want? Does your dad ever ask you about your life, your feelings, your opinions, or does he just lecture and won't accept anything you say if it doesn't agree with him. It sounds like he is critical about every single aspect of your life instead of being supportive.

 

I would start throwing it back. "Well, dad, since I cannot do anything right in your eyes then I guess I should just go on with my life." "I'm sorry dad that I am such a failure in your eyes..." "Well, dad, since everything I do is wrong and I am such a disappointment to you I guess I will just quit telling you about my life. You aren't interested in it anyway, just critical of it."

 

 

There is no shame in cutting toxic people out of our lives (i have had to distance myself and my kids from my very cruel parents). Would you choose to spend time with them if they weren't family? And just because they are family, doesn't mean you have to sit there and let them sh!t on you.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

But didn't they step away from being traditional Chinese when they accepted christianity? Why do they get to make a decision, when they were adults, about their choice of religion and you don't?

 

If they wanted you to stay traditional Chinese then they shouldn't have raised you with a Western religion.

 

And I also have to touch on something another poster said...do they really care about YOU, or just the you they want? Does your dad ever ask you about your life, your feelings, your opinions, or does he just lecture and won't accept anything you say if it doesn't agree with him. It sounds like he is critical about every single aspect of your life instead of being supportive.

 

I would start throwing it back. "Well, dad, since I cannot do anything right in your eyes then I guess I should just go on with my life." "I'm sorry dad that I am such a failure in your eyes..." "Well, dad, since everything I do is wrong and I am such a disappointment to you I guess I will just quit telling you about my life. You aren't interested in it anyway, just critical of it."

 

 

There is no shame in cutting toxic people out of our lives (i have had to distance myself and my kids from my very cruel parents). Would you choose to spend time with them if they weren't family? And just because they are family, doesn't mean you have to sit there and let them sh!t on you.

 

 

Goddamn, this is the best post I have seen so far.

 

You are totally right (IMO Anyway). You hit the nail straight in.

[FirstInTheDance]

Marroncream,

 

Like the other posters said, I am not Chinese. I'm an American who was raised with an independent streak a mile wide. But, leaving the cult of Christianity behind is often terribly difficult, even in Western cultures. Many people have lost friends, suffered the break up of their marriages, and/or have become estranged from their families. Only you can decide what is best for you. How important is your relationship with your parents? If you cannot or will not pretend to be a Christian to keep the peace, then I only see two choices. Either do as Pitchu suggested and ignore the bad and redirect the conversation, or make it clear to your parents that they must treat you with respect if they want to remain in contact with you. They may choose to disinherit you. Can you live with that? Think about the pros and cons before you give an ultimatum, but keep in mind that this is YOUR life. They got to live theirs. It is your turn now. Do not let guilt keep you from being happy. If having a person in your life does not add to the quality of it, then that person should not be in it. It doesn't matter if they are family. Lots of people have bad families.

[william]

Marroncream (waves to fellow hk'er) I fully unerstand what you are going through. Chinese parents always see themselves above their children. They would always try to control you in such a way until you agree wuth them. It's never about 'you', it's their face, their reputation, their disappointment. Tell me about it... Btw are you the eldest in the family, or are you an only child?

[william]

I think I can unerstand the traditionalist argument from your parents when they claim control of your marriage. However being half a guai jai like myself, I laugh at that argument. Nobody in the world can decide who you would love and live your life with. From my own point of view, it is you who signs the marriage contract. The 'jum cha' is a ceremony, nothing else. It at least has no legal bearing whatsoever. Let your dad say what he wants, but don't let it affect your life. If it is(or sounds like) good advice, take a few moments to reflect, otherwise, just let his words flow over, you have a lot more important things to do, other than letting his words grow wrinkles on your face.

[Crazycatlady]

I remember awhile after I had deconverted, a friend (who was fortunate to grow up with atheist/non-religious parents) asked me if I had told my parents yet. I said I hadn’t, and he frowned at me. I was just trying to come up with an appropriate response when another friend (who went through a similar deconversion experience), said “No, remember, her parents actually love her.” I nodded and the one friend looked at us like we were crazy. It does sound crazy, doesn’t it?

 

Being American (with European roots), I don’t have the same family dynamics as you do. However, my parents have a great deal of control over me. I didn’t really realize how much control until I was 19 years old, living at college miles away, and called to ask if I could go camping with my friends that weekend. They told me I couldn’t. I did…and then spent the next few weeks worrying that they would find out and were going to call and let me know how angry they were (didn’t happen – thank goodness). I’m 20 now and still firmly under my parents’ yoke, though slightly less so (with the help of an university shrink – I don’t what I’ll do when my free sessions run out).

 

I wish you the best of luck. Overcoming the traditions of Chinese society as well as Christian doctrine must be extremely difficult. I wish I could advise you, but you’re further along on this deconversion and “outness” business than I.