nightflight Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I keep hearing this from Christians, "something can't come from nothing" as a defense I guess of the idea that there must have been a creator. But wait a damn minute! If something cannot come from nothing, then what did God make the something out of? Oh, he "spoke it into existence"? Like magic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 At least in this universe matter doesn't spontaneously generate. As to what there is outside this universe or what was before, if there was a before (time could be a local phenomenon), I can't say. They do themselves and their imaginations a disservice by simplifying the matter so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Umm, strictly speaking matter is generated spontaneously in this universe. It's just not stable normally... pairs of particles and antiparticles pop into existence and immediately annihilate each other unless separated by outside forces. That said, yes the "argument" is worthless like all others the morontheists use. Where did Da Kreatah come from? From nothing eh? And who says there's really "nothing" outside the perceivable universe? Have they been there? Just because the door in front of me is locked doesn't mean there's not a living room behind it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 :whs: Subatomic particles do indeed blink in and out of existence (at least to our perceptions) and even time may do funky things in those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Before Big Bang, there was a state of extremely high energy. It was a form of premordial plasma. So the Big Bang didn't "bang" from nothing, but was a change of state, or change of form of something that already existed. The Ex Nihilo Creation is a religious belief, and not a scientific one. And it's true, particles do come into existence and disappear again, but the energy balance is maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Umm, strictly speaking matter is generated spontaneously in this universe. It's just not stable normally... pairs of particles and antiparticles pop into existence and immediately annihilate each other unless separated by outside forces. That's a new one to me. But still when I say matter while talking about all this early universe stuff, I just mean existing stuff rather than the whole mass volume schtick. 'Sides if I remember right most of the universe isn't "matter" anyway. But thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The Casimir Effect suggests that particles come in and out of existence. And quantum tunneling shows that particles exists at locations based on probability, not absolutes. If you freeze a particle in one spot, it will jump to a more probable location, because you can't lock it down. And both those theories are based on observations. They've been tested, not just theorized. Quantum tunneling is the hurdle for Intel and AMD to build smaller CPUs. They can't make the line thinner, or put them closer, because the particles start jumping between lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_PK Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I keep hearing this from Christians, "something can't come from nothing" as a defense I guess of the idea that there must have been a creator. But wait a damn minute! If something cannot come from nothing, then what did God make the something out of? Oh, he "spoke it into existence"? Like magic? If everything needs a creator, then who created god? Or, if god is an exception, why can't the universe be an exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 If everything needs a creator, then who created god? Or, if god is an exception, why can't the universe be an exception? Nothing does not need to be created, so God is Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Umm, strictly speaking matter is generated spontaneously in this universe. It's just not stable normally... pairs of particles and antiparticles pop into existence and immediately annihilate each other unless separated by outside forces. That's a new one to me. But still when I say matter while talking about all this early universe stuff, I just mean existing stuff rather than the whole mass volume schtick. 'Sides if I remember right most of the universe isn't "matter" anyway. But thanks for the clarification. We're not necessarily talking about early universe, Doc. It is proposed that the universe is only 4% Hadronic matter, some 20 odd percent is dark matter and the rest is dark energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyMac Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I keep hearing this from Christians, "something can't come from nothing" as a defense I guess of the idea that there must have been a creator. But wait a damn minute! If something cannot come from nothing, then what did God make the something out of? Oh, he "spoke it into existence"? Like magic? Calvary Chapel went into great detail about this, I can try and find some links. I never really understood them though...I will popst when I find them, until then good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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