Here We Go My Friends

[PocketAces]

my dad caught my signature on my email, which is a quote from Nietzche, which is the same one i use on here. he commented on it. so i'm going to come out of the closet about my atheism more fully. i'm keeping details small since it is an email and offer the next time we have steak or whatever, we talk about it in more details. but here we go my friends. i'll finally have this burden lifted. i thought he knew from my facebook profile, but i guess not. but here we go!

[PocketAces]

so just to share, give me your opinions of how i addressed the issue. he was warning me about reading Nietzche. so here's my response.

 

i'll check out the link dad. maybe give you my own "rebuttal" to the guy's opinion of Nietzche Nietzche was both a controversial but very influential philosopher. its sad that he lost his mind, because some of his writings and arguments are amazing. there's even controversy about his sister twisting his last few works to fit a more Nazi standpoint even tho it seems from a lot of pov's that know Nietzche's work, that he didn't have a "Nazi agenda" and his final books i believe didn't get published till after he died in which his sister took the rights of it, and then it is very possible that she twisted some of his works. people attribute him to nihilism, and he has a very controversial statement, "God is dead" in his book, The Gay Science (it is not about homosexuality). and also i should tell you dad, i don't consider myself a Christian anymore. i actually consider myself an atheist. which i considered myself an atheist before i started reading more into Nietzche's works. i hope we don't have an argument about this and i'm not going to go in a long email about this. only because i think it would be better to sit down and talk about it over steak, and if you would want to dad, i would be more than willing to. i know its a pretty (big-grammatical error i just found after i sent it) change from when i was a kid. my views have really changed over the years. and i have many reasons why, which i'm more than willing to talk about them with you. i just never thought to bring it up. no reason to. i just chose to wait for the appropiate time to tell you, and since you commented on that signature part of my email, i figure, this would be a good time. i did the same thing with mom. she asked me about it and i was honest. i've just really changed in my views about religion and God and Jesus. i still live a moral life as best as i can, and thing is, i feel like i've become more moral since i stopped believeing in the stuff i used to believe. its ironic i suppose. i'll explain that one later if you would want me to. because there's a certain discussion that you and i had, that i'll never forget and it was a time i really thought about things more i suppose and now the outcome is, i'm an atheist. a pretty feverent to say the least when asked about it. but anyways, i'm more than willing t to talk about this over steak and a beer dad. i know when i was a kid, i was a Christian fanatic. i'm sorry for the days i would try to preach to you and tell you what to believe. i was so immature back then, and now i don't even believe in any of what i was preaching to you, to kids at the middleschool, all the times, i spoke at church, led worship service at (took her name out for privacy sake, but my ex-g/f in highschool) father's church, played in that band with my Christian friends after i graduated, the list goes on and on. and i'm very sorry dad for all the times i was a prideful youth with religion towards you.

 

but how about we save more discussion on this for thursday or if you want to wait for steak till next weekend, or whenever your able to? i don't want to get into details over an email ya know? i want to be tell you this face to face and talk about it if you want to that is.

i should have said that my mother asked me because of a forum i was going to (not this one) and because i told her about Richard Dawkin's book "The God Delusion".

 

the conversation with my dad, and i don't know if he remember it, but it was some time after i got my DUI. him and i weren't talking for awhile, not because of that, but we finally started talking again and of course he knew, and he was worried that i'd get another one. just because he knows how he had a past with drinking and he's worried that i would be the same. at the time i was still a Christian, but i was really re-looking the claims and things to expect from believeing. like how come i didn't get orthopraxy when i believed in orthodox beliefs? but what i said to him was, "dad you don't know what it was like to be handcuffed, put in a cop car because you were driving drunk and you're a fucking man of God." just to give some brief history of why i put in certain things.

[florduh]

Congratulations. You'll feel better once you come to terms with being "out of the closet."

 

Remember, people love you for who you really are, or they don't love you at all.

 

I hope you have an easy transition.

[Etchison]

Nice!

 

Please let us know how it goes. I hope he replies well ...

[PocketAces]

Congratulations. You'll feel better once you come to terms with being "out of the closet."

 

Remember, people love you for who you really are, or they don't love you at all.

 

I hope you have an easy transition.

 

 

Nice!

 

Please let us know how it goes. I hope he replies well ...

 

thank you two.

 

well so far its been a good response. i'll share what he responded with. i was pleasantly shocked.

 

About Nietzsche ---the the fellow's name is Ravi not Razi.-- He is considered to be one of the greatest apologetics (defender of the faith) of our time. His arguments for Christ are hard to follow at times. He used to travel the college circuit giving lectures and giving debates. He like Nietzche is good reading. Ravi Zacharias. Listen to his debates with an open mind.

 

Yes we can talk more of this in the future.

 

When I was your age I thought of myself as an atheist also.

 

Perhaps like me you will discover that If Christ is not true then what is? What is better to place your hope in? For me everything that I hope for my family, my work, myself. Everything-I try to talk to Christ about and ask him for help to fix and resolve what I cannot and give me the wisdom and strength to do what I can do.

 

I understand how you must feel about Jennifer. The anger and all. Remember God did not do this. Her Grandpa did. Perhaps God will bring the healing to her heart if those in her family ask him for it. I admit The Holy Spirit does seem reluctant to intervene in human affairs for the most part. But, we can hope he will can't we? As you age you may discover that only Christ matters. Everything else is crap. Myself I think that is why the Churches are filled with old people. They know what we don't. They know that only Christ can can answer Hope. Hope is what it is all about Joe. There is so much in life that one cannot do for oneself. You will need help. You will need divine help. If that divine help does not exist then who or what will hear your hope and answer? Will it be Nietzsche?

 

My hope is Christ. I believe his words are the best answers for mankind.

I have found nothing better.

 

Forget Karl Marx--he was an idiot. Ask anyone in Russia.

 

In the world today--how many people place their hope in Christ?

 

How many? Do all these people hope in vain?

 

How many place their hope in Nietzsche?

 

Be young Joe--question everything--It's natural--It is right for you to do so.

 

But I pray you do not block the Holy Spirit from helping you with your hopes in life. Trust me you will need help from Jesus Christ.

 

Thanks for hearing my opinions.

part of my reply to the man he brought my attention (which it seems i just mispelled his name in my reply) and then i added a quote from Karl Marx that i like just to prove my point.

 

i look forward to dealing with this in person with him. i mean to me, this is a very well response, one i wasn't expecting. i knew my dad was an atheist at one time, so i was thinking of possible 2 reactions. one, some type of understanding, or two and immediate dismiss of it. he did the first one and better than i thought.

 

i tried to keep details out, even tho, my views got more detailed in the response i gave to the man he advised me to research on, because i told him i'd make a "rebuttal" to Ravi's pov. it didn't dawn on me that he'd see more of a detailed view of my views, when i was wanting to share that in person. nevertheless the time of discussion in person i can't wait.

 

i'm trying to find that line of not being offensive to my father but being honest. i don't have a problem with being honest, but i know i at times, have a very well crass way of explaining my point. for some people its ok, and others, it isn't. my dad and i are very blunt with each other to say the least. i was afraid he's think i'm angry at God over what happened to my sister. my theory with that is, one can't be mad at something they can't see, feel, touch or hear. when one gets mad at that kind of "idea" they are only mad that their idea of "God" has failed in that moment. i never experienced that. i mean i have opinions about it, on the hypothetical of "if" it were all true, but i think i'm reasonable enough to know, that the Christian idea of "god" is deism in denial as far as i'm concerned(i only say that because the acts of the deistic god, and the theistic god is, the same, nothing, the difference to me is, the theistic requires human beings to act, the deistic god doesn't, it just doesn't act) but believers just create hope for themselves through it.

 

i want to engage what he had to say. his response, in my opinion, was extremely good. he gave his honest opinion and when dealing with a believer and a non-believer, that's going to happen, and it doesn't bug me but he didn't condemn me, or austricize me. in a way, he gave me praise for questioning and being young. so i'm hoping to find a way to engage it, be honest, but not lose this type of reaction.

 

this is the difference between my mother and father. my mother didn't have much to say. she gave her views, and that was it. but then on the phone, i was talking about a ministry that i used to know about, and how i still respect the ministry regardless of how i don't believe what they believe in, and when i mentioned how i don't agree with some of their views, her immediate reaction was, "i know" and that was it. i'd like to think that she didn't mean that in a disgusted way, but her voice and how quick it came, i'm not convinced that it was just a simple acknowledgement of knowing how i don't believe in it anymore. and i was shocked and not in a good way. that's not what i expected from her. and my dad, he actually seems to want to know why. engage me in it. that i like, A LOT. when people engage into knowing why i differ than them. i love honest, mature debate and discussion and its a great way of human interaction in my opinion. and my dad, i guess i just thought would have reacted more negatively. and he responded overly positive in my opinion.

 

so i look forward more now to discussing this in person with him. i should have made it clear that i'm not looking for hope, because i have hope. i don't find hope through philosophers or anything and i don't know if my dad got the wrong idea. i look forward to telling hi m more of my detailed views, and to tell him, i have hope. my hope comes from myself, knowing what i can do, my family (including him, which will be the main specified point when i say that) and the world we live in.

 

will update when we have our discussion in person.

[PocketAces]

here's more update of my response to him:

sorry for the typo of Ravi. i looked it up again and it was the same person and the same place i went to. i just made a typo in that email.

 

i don't find hope in philosophical figures, or even religious figures. why would i find hope in someone else's beliefs...including religious figures like Jesus or anyone other religious figure or even philosophical figures? i like what philosophical people have to say and find what they say i agree with, and even some of them, i find believing the same thing they say before i read their works, Nietzche being one of them, but my hope is not in them or what they have to say. the hope i have is, in myself, my family and the world we live in. that's all the hope i want. that may not be enough for a lot of people but for me it is more than good. anything else to me seems like an illusion. i don't find any meaning in life but the meaning that we choose to make for ourselves. which for me, is to keep on with the decent life i have, my family and to just constantly try to think of ways, be it small or big to better myself and i suppose just live.

 

and about Jennifer. i'm not mad at God. i never understood how people could be mad at "God". we don't see, hear, feel, anything from or about God, so how could one be mad at an idea in our heads? to me it seems when people get mad at God, they are just mad at their perception of God failing in certain circumstances and they make turn that idea in their heads as "God" then they feel justified to be angry at it. i don't see any reason to be angry at myself, and that's all i see with people being mad at "God"...being mad at themselves. even if God does exist, there's nothing God could have done to stop it, or prevent it. the idea of God existing doesn't take care of the world's problems and the extreme immoral things we see. look at what the "nation of God", Israel is doing to Gaza. a savage onslaught over missles being fired from Hamas, killing little over a dozen of Israelites because of the jewish blockade on the strip of Gaza which prevents Gaza to get basic things of survival, so Israel is practically annihalating a poverished nation, killing more than what Hamas has killed all because of Hamas's views of the Jewish people or what? i wish the UN had more global power because countries like that over there, need secular control as far as i'm concerned. the UN seems more like a all talk liberal government policy that barely does nothing in my opinion. sure they give humantarian aid, but what good is it to give aid but not fix the problem that is causing the need for the aid? sorry to go on and on, i just have a lot of feelings with this current war in the middle east, and just using it as an example, as well with all the problems in this world and they all exist while the majority of people in this world believe in some type of "God" and i just don't see what change there'd be, even if a "god" would exist. sometimes i've felt as an atheist, and an atheist that is not angry at "god" or angry at the church, it seems we're a minority. so there's no way i could be mad at a god over jennifer's situation or even the problems of this world. all the ideas of God show, that God does not act, or requires human beings to act in my opinion. but that's not my biggest problem with the idea of "God". it just shows why i'm not angry at God. God wouldn't do anything anyways even if some type of God existed as far as i'm concerned. either because of free-will, or supposed love from God shown on some cross, or through some mystified prophet, which is all meaningless in my opinion when innocent people die, innocent people lose their innocence, families torn apart, broken, people suffering from poverty, mental illness, disease and God does nothing out of his pride, ego, need to be worshipped, and lets people ruin the lives of others and their own lives because of his supposed love to not force himself on us. more reasons why i see no hope in religion of any sort with God, hope meaning hope that is realistic for the world we live in and might i even assume, hope that this world needs. the hope that we can fix the problems that we face everyday, and i personally believe that hope is found in ourselves, and the fact that we are the most evolved creature of the universe. that's something to have pride in, in my opinion and i think more people need to see the hope in ourselves, than the hope in spiritual, mystical ideas. but that's my personal opinion.

 

plus, to me, life is too short to be living on illusions. i believe it is impossible to know anything beyond the life we live. my opinion is when we die, we go back to the state that we were in before we were born, non-existant. i could be wrong but as far as my understanding can understand, that's all there could rationally be. so this life is it. why waste it on relying on ideas that don't have a good track record? that's why my smoking is becoming more of an issue to me, and i'm making small steps to curve back my smoking to where i can realistically quit. i'm addict to nicotein, and i admit to that. quitting cold turkey for me, right now, is really unrealistic. its idealistic. just quit right? but addicts no better than that. so i'm trying to curve back my smoking to where i can get to the realistic point of coming to the day to just say, "i'm done" and actually mean it. cause let's say i am right. there is nothing more to this life, than this life lived. why would i want to waste on it inhaling smoke? i'm predicting this year, sometime i will come to the point of kicking the habit. only because, slowly but surely, i am getting so tired of smoking. i'm just trying to be realistic about this habit that is a killer habit. being realistic is the only way i think i'll ever quit smoking. but ya know, since i've finally accepted the fact that i'm atheist, and that i don't believe in any heaven, hell, or any afterlife place, it has made me really re-think my habits. i mean the idea of serving God obviously didn't help me to curve habits. hell, i got a DUI while believing and having hope in some god, or in some holy spirit. i started smoking while a Christian. when i was in college, i smoked weed while a Christian, inhaling poisonous drugs into my brain. thankfully i had a really good friend in college, her name was Dawn. when we became friends, she got herself cleaned off of meth and all other illegal substances and was changing her life for the better. her and i were really close friends and we kept in touch for years after i dropped out of college. and while in college at Toledo, she was one of the influences that kept me from trying other drugs because of how much it fucked her own life up, and how she was just getting herself straightened out from it all. i remember siting in a Toledo Hospital for over 12 hours because she was having a panic attack, that was induced from the all the times that she did meth. from the time we became friends, and assuming even to this day, she's still been clean off of drugs. the idea of loving or having hope in God never curved bad habits or bad desires. hell that girl i moved out west for was still married but going through a divorce because her husband committed adultery on her. so even my moral actions never got curved or better. but now that i've gotten rid of all my religious and spiritual views, what's left? this life is it. i'm not going to waste it anymore on pointless, irrational ideals, or meaningless pursuits. even heather, in canada, i know now that was a meaningless pursuit. our relationship, now as i look back at it with 20/20 hindsight, it was based in sex...and that was all done while i professed some belief in some deity and in some mystical savior. sure there were some great things about our relationship, but the core of it was sex. that's why i can't over-emphasis to you when we talk about relationships and women, and when we talk about the idea of finding real love, and when we talk about it not being about sex, i agree with you 110 percent and i'm very thankful to have a man in my life, and that man being my father, to support me in that view. i've done it and tried it, and the sex was great, fun, blah blah, but it isn't anything of worth in the long run if there isn't substantial to the relationship, and when it comes to women, i'm not looking for sex. but yet, all those times that i did those things, i was believeing. this was one of my first issues of really questioning my Christian faith. i supposedly was believeing in orthodox, and ultimate truth, and real hope and relying on the supposed "promises of the scriptures" but it wasn't affecting the choices i made in real life, or outside the church doors. sit inside the pews, say my prayers, listen to the pointless sermons, say my amens, sing the songs, and then walk out the doors, and nothing changed but mere mental ideas, nothing of substance. in my opinion, the only that defines us is what we do, our actions. and all i ever felt in all those years as a kid, as a teenager, and even now as a young adult, is that all the promises, all the life changing affects of religion, of any sort, are illusions and not real. do you remember the night you and i were talking about my DUI in your garage at your house? and i said to you, "you don't know what it was like to be handcuffed and put in a cop car and your a fucking man of god?" that was really the first time i seriously questioned everything i believed in. i was glad i told you. your my father, and that was my first sign of showing that i'm really questioning what i believe to anyone close to me, meaning family or friends. and i suppose since then, i just want something real. and along with that, and many many other reasons, my hope resides in myself, my family, and the world i live in.

 

and help from Christ. i'm not trying to be critical or disrespectful of your opinions here dad. and i sure hope as we talk about this through email, and in person that you are never disrespected with my views, because i'm in no manner trying to be rude, or disrespectful to you. i remember as a young kid, being torn from you and mom, and not knowing what to do, to show my parents that i love them equally with living with them, i went to the bible. i'll never forget the days, i would read the bible, search through the concordances, anything on family, any sign of divorce, of who to live with. i found nothing. and the over the years, searching for advice on living morally, what to do. all my big screw ups, besides my drinking issues in the past, i could either one justify with belief, or it never helped. i don't know about the future. the future isn't here yet, so i don't know about it. but i know now, the best help i've found is not in Christ, not in religion but in myself and my family. and i'm predicting, that will be all the help i will need to get me through this life.

 

so i'll end it here. i also want to say thank you dad, for this discussion. i look forward to having it in person over steak and a beer. but i really appeciate actually interested in knowing what i believe, and you giving me your blunt and honest opinions. no matter how much at times our relationship has been up and down, the one thing that i have always learned from you is hard work will get you a million miles, and always be bluntly honest no matter what, the two greatest things that i hold to in my own life dad. mom doesn't seem to interested in my beliefs. i told her once of a book i was reading, and about an online forum that i was going to have discussions on this topic with other people, and that's how it came about me telling her i'm atheist now. then we talked on the phone maybe 2 weeks ago i think and i was mentioning about a ministry in New York that i really respect. the starter is Jim Baker's son, Jay Baker. it started in Atlanta, and his ministry has spread to other states now, and there's thing that i still respect and support about his ministry. and while talking about it, i told mom, that i still respect it even tho my beliefs have changed, and she really quickly said, "yea i know" and that was it. she doesn't seem too interested in small talk with me anymore. the only times she calls up, it seems, is when she's stressed or something about jennifer. sure she'll call once in awhile to ask how i am, but she always gets into how she's stressed about something. all i can think is, "i'm 27. what in the hell can i say to a 50 year old woman to make her feel better?" i try to say something to make her feel better, but it never does any good. you actually like to talk to me about anything, and i'm glad i have it. i wish i would have had it when i was younger, and i wish things would have been different for our family more than what you know (coming from the child's side) and it bothers me still to think about it all, but all i care about is that i have it now, and that's all that matters, so thank you dad. i know you and i believe things differently now, probably more than ever before, but i'm glad you at least care to know what i think about things, and what i believe about things. it means a lot to me dad, and always will.