nightflight Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 http://sophiesladder.com/WordPress/?p=178 What we’re really talking about is what takes primacy in the world, what moves not only the cosmos, but reality and God. And I contend that it’s not reason. It’s faith. It’s the indomitable Spirit. The very message of the cross and the resurrection is that when the night is darkest and the times are bleakest, hope and life will rise again, so faith expects to be tested, sorely tried, and it expects to overcome. This whole little scenario demonstrates the ultimate inadequacy of reason and the ascendancy of faith. Reason fails. Reason quits at this point. Reason runs and hides. Reason dies. But the Spirit endures. Funny, the author uses reason to subordninate reason. And further, could not his (yes) reasoning be used to defend rival faiths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Every time I read or hear "indomitable spirit," I automatically think of the "abominable snowman." Are they related perhaps? Sophie is really arguing from emotions. She call her emotions: spirit. Of course emotions are quite logical or rational, so if she follows her emotions, she won't be rational. But she's using reason to explain it, so some things do trump emotions. She's just set on that her feelings for her faith is stronger than reason, and that's why she can claim that even in the face of contrary evidence, she would still believe. She's in love with her faith basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Nightflight I wonder how the author squares these words with Proverbs 3: 13 – 15 "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her." How does one gain understanding without reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 How does one gain understanding without reason? Some religious ideas is that understanding comes from divine revelation, and not from reason. So maybe that's where she's going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her." How does one gain understanding without reason? In some fundamental circles, the concept of "wisdom" as taught in the book of Proverbs, is none other than Jesus himself. They believe that the "wisdom" passages there are personifications of Christ. He IS wisdom, they would argue. And, as such, FAITH in Christ is gives one wisdom which then leads to knowledge and understanding. They couple this with the verses that say: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom" To know god is to fear him and, according to this belief system, one can only know god via faith. So reason, for the believer, begins with faith. The sad thing is that many that are fundamental in their beliefs see the world around them as an illusion. Since the devil is out their to trick them and their own hearts are deceiptful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9) then they cannot even trust what they see. Therefore, they need the "truth" and, for them, the "truth" is Jesus (the way, the "truth" and the life). Thus, faith in god (Jesus) leads them to wisdom, knowledge and understanding. You and I look at the fossil record, examine the evidence and see a world that is ancient. They look at the same fossil record, don't trust what they see and, through "faith" come to conclude that either the devil placed those fossils there to confuse us and lead us away from the true faith or that dinosaurs walked with man about 6,000-10,000 years ago. Faith, then, becomes the eyeglasses through with EVERYTHING is seen. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brought None Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 And we know what those eyeglasses are called... Beer Goggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Oh, I'm always the one to go against the grain here, so I might as well again. Honestly, she's right in the basic premise. Not that I agree with her framing all the Christians symbols into it, that's her faith and she just hangs all that symbolism onto this basic concept, but she does touch on something I say all the time. People really do live by "faith", in that we are driven by a belief in something and through that belief we are driven emotionally towards attaining it. That's not an act of reason really, it's a response of the "spirit" to belief, and belief sometimes stretches well and far beyond what we "know". We had faith in our abilities to figure out a way to get man to walk on the moon. Our response of courage, desire, energy, drive, etc came from a vision of hope, not by collecting all the facts together first. We do reason to a point, but then we leap beyond reason and fill in the blanks with belief. Belief goes beyond reason, and sometime leaps completely outside the realm of reality into pure dilusion. However, that's not always an easy call to make. Many considered the belief we could fly to the moon to be dilusional. Was it? Could we say that our faith actually created reality? One doesn't need to be a believer in the supernatural to recognize this. All she's doing is hanging all her Christian symbols onto her recognizing this. This isn't agreeing with Christianity as a good system, it's just saying that what she's saying isn't wrong just because she's using to explain why she is a Christian. It applies to all beliefs and philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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