sethosayher Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 As an atheist I've been grappling with feelings akin to existential angst and anxiety. Without a God to devote myself to, I wonder if life can have any meaning. Good and Evil, Sanity and Insanity - do these concepts exist without a greater power? Buddhism seems like it might hold the answer to my restlessness. But I don't want to subscribe to anything supernatural or beyond rationality, like the assumption that individuals reincarnate. Can someone acquaint me with Atheistic Buddhism? Maybe point me to some resources or teachers or centers that instruct individuals? I live near NYC, so if anyone knows of Buddhist organizations I can visit there I'd be much obliged. EDIT: I don't mean to imply that reincarnation is non-rational; just that I can believe in it unless justified by evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Without a God to devote myself to, I wonder if life can have any meaning. Good and Evil, Sanity and Insanity - do these concepts exist without a greater power? yep...to an extent. Can someone acquaint me with Atheistic Buddhism? I would suggest starting with Stephen Batchelor's Buddhism Without Beliefs. Truthfully that is about the only widely known teacher associated with the term "Atheistic Buddhism". You see as a general rule of thumb, Buddhism is non-theistic. There are no gods to be worshipped. The statues of various Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are meditation objects, visual representations of qualities we seek to awaken within our own minds. Maybe point me to some resources or teachers or centers that instruct individuals? It really depends on where your interests lie. I do maintain a small virtual sangha (thelamp.ning.com). You are more than welcome to come by and ask questions. We do have a chat meeting on Sunday mornings 10 a.m. EST. I live near NYC, so if anyone knows of Buddhist organizations I can visit there I'd be much obliged. You can try Dharmaweb, they have listing of Dharma centers and meditation groups by state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Buddhism is inherently atheistic. Over the centuries the original Indic Buddhism has been encased in some theism, but traditional Buddhism does not require belief in a god. A Buddhist friend from Thailand explained to me that most Buddhists recognize that there is no god, but they treat Buddha as a demigod. CRASH COURSE! Here it goes. There are four noble truths: 1. To exist is to suffer. 2. The cause of suffering is craving. 3. There is a way out of suffering. 4. The way out of suffering is to extinguish craving by means of the noble 8-fold path, the noble 8-fold path getting your mind to desire: 1. right aspirations; 2. right speech; 3. right behavior; 4. right livelihood; 5. right effort; 6. right thoughts; and 7. right contemplation. Wait, I'm missing one. Anyway, there are eight of them. This is the crash course, so we can't worry about getting everything perfect. Now that you know the four noble truths. You have to meditate on them. You should read the Dhammapada if you haven't already. It's very short and absolutely astounding. Also, read "The Sermon at Benares," which is about 1 page and goes into some of these issues in slightly more detail (the language is obscure unfortunately). If you read the Sermon at Benares and the Dhammapada, you will have pretty much learned all the basics of Buddhism. Practice is another matter. I'm not a Buddhist but I can recommend some good books websites if you want. The Dhammapada is supreme. The best translation is by Sangharakshita and is available for free online. You should read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, then see the movie with the same name. I feel this can all be accomplished in one week. At the end of that week you'll have (a) contemplated the four noble truths; ( read the Dhammapada and the Sermon at Benares; © Read Siddhartha by Hesse, and (d) seen the movie. That should be it. At the end of that, you'll know about as much about Buddhism as most anybody and be ready to go forward for more if it vibes with you. Goodluck. Feel free to email me at bshantonu@gmail.com if you want some other recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyMac Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 As an atheist I've been grappling with feelings akin to existential angst and anxiety. Without a God to devote myself to, I wonder if life can have any meaning. Good and Evil, Sanity and Insanity - do these concepts exist without a greater power? Buddhism seems like it might hold the answer to my restlessness. But I don't want to subscribe to anything supernatural or beyond rationality, like the assumption that individuals reincarnate. Can someone acquaint me with Atheistic Buddhism? Maybe point me to some resources or teachers or centers that instruct individuals? I live near NYC, so if anyone knows of Buddhist organizations I can visit there I'd be much obliged. EDIT: I don't mean to imply that reincarnation is non-rational; just that I can believe in it unless justified by evidence. Have you tried Sacred-Texts.com?? In the Buddhist section? I keep feeling intrigued by buddhism, dont know why, i dont know much about it,perhaps I will be reading there at sacred texts tonight myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyMac Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Buddhism is inherently atheistic. Over the centuries the original Indic Buddhism has been encased in some theism, but traditional Buddhism does not require belief in a god. A Buddhist friend from Thailand explained to me that most Buddhists recognize that there is no god, but they treat Buddha as a demigod. CRASH COURSE! Here it goes. There are four noble truths: 1. To exist is to suffer. 2. The cause of suffering is craving. 3. There is a way out of suffering. 4. The way out of suffering is to extinguish craving by means of the noble 8-fold path, the noble 8-fold path getting your mind to desire: 1. right aspirations; 2. right speech; 3. right behavior; 4. right livelihood; 5. right effort; 6. right thoughts; and 7. right contemplation. Wait, I'm missing one. Anyway, there are eight of them. This is the crash course, so we can't worry about getting everything perfect. Now that you know the four noble truths. You have to meditate on them. You should read the Dhammapada if you haven't already. It's very short and absolutely astounding. Also, read "The Sermon at Benares," which is about 1 page and goes into some of these issues in slightly more detail (the language is obscure unfortunately). If you read the Sermon at Benares and the Dhammapada, you will have pretty much learned all the basics of Buddhism. Practice is another matter. I'm not a Buddhist but I can recommend some good books websites if you want. The Dhammapada is supreme. The best translation is by Sangharakshita and is available for free online. You should read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, then see the movie with the same name. I feel this can all be accomplished in one week. At the end of that week you'll have (a) contemplated the four noble truths; ( read the Dhammapada and the Sermon at Benares; © Read Siddhartha by Hesse, and (d) seen the movie. That should be it. At the end of that, you'll know about as much about Buddhism as most anybody and be ready to go forward for more if it vibes with you. Goodluck. Feel free to email me at bshantonu@gmail.com if you want some other recommendations. Thats a lot of good info, do you know of any audio/video tutorials?? I like to lie down and listen to spiritual things, helps me to fucus more than when I am trying to read, I have a problem with my left eye, i end up trying to focus and cant concentrate as much as i would like to. Wow, this really has sparked my interest, i had forgotten about it a bit. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thats a lot of good info, do you know of any audio/video tutorials?? I like to lie down and listen to spiritual things, helps me to fucus more than when I am trying to read, I have a problem with my left eye, i end up trying to focus and cant concentrate as much as i would like to. Wow, this really has sparked my interest, i had forgotten about it a bit. Thanks! Yes. I have a set of CDs called the Voice of the Buddha. I might be able to email you a portion of them. You can buy them from Barnes & Noble. It's also available here: http://www.naxosaudiobooks.com/northamerica/330712.htm apparently you can download the audio directly from this website. It's $16 and runs about 4 hours. I listen to it all the time. It has the complete the translation of the Dhammapada that I was talking about with brief commentaries that make the message much clearer, though you have to get past a bit of the overlaying mythology regarding the Buddha's birth and early life. You should be able to get Herman Hesse's book Siddhartha on audio. Then there is the movie Siddhartha. Siddhartha is not really about the Buddha but it's Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to help. I'm far from an expert but I've read a bit here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes. I have a set of CDs called the Voice of the Buddha. I might be able to email you a portion of them. You can buy them from Barnes & Noble. It's also available here: http://www.naxosaudiobooks.com/northamerica/330712.htm apparently you can download the audio directly from this website. It's $16 and runs about 4 hours. I listen to it all the time. It has the complete the translation of the Dhammapada that I was talking about with brief commentaries that make the message much clearer, though you have to get past a bit of the overlaying mythology regarding the Buddha's birth and early life. You should be able to get Herman Hesse's book Siddhartha on audio. Then there is the movie Siddhartha. Siddhartha is not really about the Buddha but it's about Buddhism is some way. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to help. I'm far from an expert but I've read a bit here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Sorry for the duplicate post. I hit the button before I mean to. Ooops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethosayher Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 I've been reading the Dhammapada and I find it too be very intriguing...but I wonder if you could recommend a commentary that would help flesh out the concepts that the Buddha expounds upon, and how that relates to our modern lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethosayher Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes. I have a set of CDs called the Voice of the Buddha. I might be able to email you a portion of them. You can buy them from Barnes & Noble. It's also available here: http://www.naxosaudiobooks.com/northamerica/330712.htm apparently you can download the audio directly from this website. It's $16 and runs about 4 hours. I listen to it all the time. It has the complete the translation of the Dhammapada that I was talking about with brief commentaries that make the message much clearer, though you have to get past a bit of the overlaying mythology regarding the Buddha's birth and early life. You should be able to get Herman Hesse's book Siddhartha on audio. Then there is the movie Siddhartha. Siddhartha is not really about the Buddha but it's Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to help. I'm far from an expert but I've read a bit here and there. This sounds exactly what I'm looking for. I'll look out for these next time I visit a bookstore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 "Siddhartha" is a good book, but it is about as much a study in Buddhist thought as Marvel Comic's "The Mighty Thor" is a view of Norse mythology. If you are truly interested in Buddhism this is not the way to go. Secondly it will take more than a week and requires much more work than reading two sutras, a work of fiction, and contemplating the Four Noble Truths. A week will get nothing more than the most basic of understandings. Gil Fronsdal's translation of Dhammapada comes highly recommended. Core Buddhist thought in plain English: Steve Hagen "Buddhism: Plain and Simple" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I've been reading the Dhammapada and I find it too be very intriguing...but I wonder if you could recommend a commentary that would help flesh out the concepts that the Buddha expounds upon, and how that relates to our modern lives? Well, depending on the translation you have, I think the Dhammapada does relate to our modern lives. But it's so simple that we sort of miss it. I don't know of any commentaries unfortunately. You might want to check out Sangharakshita's website, which has some of his writings: http://www.sangharakshita.org/d-index.html Buddha is very insistent. You need to become enlightened now. Thus, Buddha says: "One is indeed one's own saviour. What other saviour should there be? With oneself well-controlled, on finds a saviour who is hard to find." Dhammapada ch 12. You have to grab the wheel and control your "self." You have to see it for what it is. Your ego is your enemy if is not well-controlled. The Buddha is imploring us to live well, in a self-controlled way, to practice loving-kindness, to restrain our passions and desires. Let's say you want a job/a partner/a house/a car/whatever. Your ego is going to work your mind into a frenzy over these desires. Ultimately, the ego cannot be satisfied. This leads to pain, suffering, ignorance, etc. The Buddhist way is to recognized that the ego cannot be satisfied and to work to "disolve" the ego. You can achieve this through meditation, through acts of charity, through studying Buddhism, and in other ways. CRASH COURSE! See the movie "The Legend of Bagger Vance," with Matt Damon and Will Smith. Try to ask yourself what prevented the Matt Damon character from being successful and what allowed the Will Smith character to help him. What did Will Smith do for Matt Damon? The Legend of Bagger Vance is an attempt to put the Indian classic scripture "the Bhaghavad Gita" into modern, western terms. The Buddha would have read and studied the Bhaghavad Gita, so you will need to learn a bit about it as well to round out your study of Buddhism. Eastern philosophy is exceedingly complex. In order to "really" understand traditional Buddhism, ideally you would know something about Hinduism because Buddhism grew out of Hinduism in much the same way that Christianity grew out of Judaism. One of the most important concepts to understand is reincarnation. Hindus believe that they will be reincarnated according to certian principles of karmic rebirth. Buddhists believe this also--but, unlike Hinduism, the goal of Buddhist practice is to *not* be reincarnated--that is, to escape the pattern of death and rebirth and to achieve a state of complete tranquility and release. Since I'm assuming you didn't grow up with these sorts of concepts, it will be a challenge for you to understand them. But it not impossible or even that difficult. I didn't mean to suggest the whole thing can be mastered in a week. But I do think the basics can be understood in short time. To gain true understanding it will take time. And you have to look for resources that will bring the message home to you in a language that you can really understand. That's why I highly recommend Siddhartha by Herman Hesse and other books and movies that place Indic and Eastern philosophy in a more comprehensible way. Hesse's book is really great. I'd in fact start there. It's true that it's not actually about the Buddha, but there's no better place to begin. Roughly 99% of all westerners who go to India, Nepal or Tibet in search of themselves are carrying a copy of that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sojo Nothingness Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 As an atheist I've been grappling with feelings akin to existential angst and anxiety. Without a God to devote myself to, I wonder if life can have any meaning. Good and Evil, Sanity and Insanity - do these concepts exist without a greater power? Buddhism seems like it might hold the answer to my restlessness. But I don't want to subscribe to anything supernatural or beyond rationality, like the assumption that individuals reincarnate. Can someone acquaint me with Atheistic Buddhism? Maybe point me to some resources or teachers or centers that instruct individuals? I live near NYC, so if anyone knows of Buddhist organizations I can visit there I'd be much obliged. EDIT: I don't mean to imply that reincarnation is non-rational; just that I can believe in it unless justified by evidence. I would suggest Chan or Soto Zen. A good starter would be getting Zen mind Beginners Mind by Shunryu Suzuki as well as Hardcore Zen and Sit Down and Shut up by Brad Warner. The books provide an excellent introduction without the spiritual entrapment's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Except for the chapter in Sit Down and Shut Up where Brad says that no Zen Buddhist worth his salt is an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sojo Nothingness Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Except for the chapter in Sit Down and Shut Up where Brad says that no Zen Buddhist worth his salt is an atheist. Conversely, you will eventually find that illustration applies equally to any notions of a sugar daddy in the sky as well (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and anything else in-between. It's a lesson for people who happen to adhere and attach strongly to opposite extremes and set viewpoints. Personally, I was shocked to discover that this also applies to a held view in agnostism which was my position. They happen to be dualistic viewpoints which are a hinderance if you attach to them. Best Wishes, SN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hey there Sojo Conversely, you will eventually find that illustration applies equally to any notions of a sugar daddy in the sky as well (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and anything else in-between. It's a lesson for people who happen to adhere and attach strongly to opposite extremes and set viewpoints. Personally, I was shocked to discover that this also applies to a held view in agnostism which was my position. They happen to be dualistic viewpoints which are a hinderance if you attach to them. Best Wishes, SN Even this is but a reflection of the moon upon a drop of dew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Buddhism basically is the study and training of the mind, and learning to live in the moment. So good, evil, sanity and insanity are all relative concepts since they begin and end in your own mind. No gods necessary. There ARE a lot of parables and concepts of gods, devils, heavens, hells, and other realms, but typically these are viewed as being archetypes, not beings. Tibetan Buddhist sects are very heavy on that, and it's a very helpful teaching tool for people who are visual and work well with symbolism. There is also a concept of sin, but "sin" in this case pretty much means engaging in actions or thoughts that break your connection with the moment and your inherent goodness and clarity of thinking. It's not considered a bad or tainting thing. It's all very practical. At times it sounds REALLY similar to Christianity, but the way to view things are entirely different. There is no compulsion to do anything, believe anything, or follow anything outside of your own mind. The Buddha himself said not to take anybody's word for anything, not even his, without trying it out for yourself first. If you want something that doesn't work with god concepts and visualizations so much, I suggest looking into Chan and Zen Buddhism, which does not practice with that a great deal. If you like podcasts, I recommend listening to Gil Fronsdal, he makes it everything very easy to understand. http://www.audiodharma.org/talks-gil.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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