Ixchel Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 When I question people on Jesus and God and religion, I notice that most have the same tone. I've noticed that when they feel that they have an answer, they answer rapidly, with confidence. That tone irritates me. It reminds me of how self-assured and arrogant I used to be when I was an xian and it makes me want to hit them. I'm also SICK and tired of hearing Pascal's Wager thrown at me more times than I can count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 You can always throw Pascal's Wager back at them by saying that it is flawed since it only takes into account the Christian god. Let them be smug, and let them believe the world is persecuting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 11, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well, if you have God's ear, and he also speaks to you, you have the right to be arrogant and act superior with us ignorant, lost heathens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I had this tossed at me last week...a believer in God (a neo-Christian as he calls himself [???????]) shoots off at me for reading "Godless" by Dan Barker. He brought up the wager, and I told him the flaw in it, and he told me even if the smallest percentage of possibility of Yahweh existing is enough for him to have faith. I am sorry, but that is an argument-killer right there. Once a person makes that kind of statement, there is really no way to rebuff that. And the condescing tone was there, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If we should accept the wager, the logical outcome is to pick the religion with the greatest punishment for unbelief, and the greatest reward for belief, and I'm not sure Christianity fits the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I thought Jesus said Christians were supposed to be humble and stuff and that to be first in the kingdom, you have to be last? Or am I just imagining that I read that verse? But if Pascal's Wager is a legitimate argument, does that mean Catholicism is the one true way then since Pascal was a Catholic? So, either Pascal's Wager is a legitimate argument and all Christians should become Catholics, or if they shouldn't become Catholics, then Pascal's Wager is not a legitimate argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If we should accept the wager, the logical outcome is to pick the religion with the greatest punishment for unbelief, and the greatest reward for belief, and I'm not sure Christianity fits the best choice. Would that not be the Atheist? If an Atheist is wrong, and even one deity system exists, they will suffer in that system's Hell.... Picking any religion with an afterlife and you are trying to hedge your bet and hope that you get lucky with the deity system you choose. Playing the odds, a person should pick one of the bigger (ie most members active) systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe if the Wager is right, then there could be a rotating system of hells that every Atheist must go through. Maybe there is a hall of deities like there's a Hall of Justice. Who really knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I often find that well placed words of wisdom as I'm walking away make the most impact. Something to the effect of "fucking ignorant prick" or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Personally, I like to counter Pascal's Wager with the Riddle of Epicurus. Par's method works just as well, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Pascal's Wager fails because, according to "real Christianity" (i.e. the Bible), you can't turn faith on or off like a lightswitch. If God gives you faith (Eph 2 v 8-9) you will be saved, if he doesn't you're screwed. A free-will choice doesn't come into it. Believing "just in case" is a misnomer. You can't live your life on a phony bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If we should accept the wager, the logical outcome is to pick the religion with the greatest punishment for unbelief, and the greatest reward for belief, and I'm not sure Christianity fits the best choice. Would that not be the Atheist? If an Atheist is wrong, and even one deity system exists, they will suffer in that system's Hell.... What I think it comes to, is that no one can really choose, since we can't know which one has the worst punishment and best reward. Picking any religion with an afterlife and you are trying to hedge your bet and hope that you get lucky with the deity system you choose. Playing the odds, a person should pick one of the bigger (ie most members active) systems. I think everyone who uses the Wager does so applied to whatever religion they grew up with, and they never compared. In a sense, it's like getting a paper from your parents saying which Lotto number will win at one time in your life, and you bet all your money your whole life on that number. You never win, but you're certain through belief that it will one day. And since you haven't one yet, and any number could be the winning number, it's a "safe" bet to keep the same number. But in the end, that number is no different than any other number. The chances are equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I had this tossed at me last week...a believer in God (a neo-Christian as he calls himself [???????]) shoots off at me for reading "Godless" by Dan Barker. He brought up the wager, and I told him the flaw in it, and he told me even if the smallest percentage of possibility of Yahweh existing is enough for him to have faith. I am sorry, but that is an argument-killer right there. Once a person makes that kind of statement, there is really no way to rebuff that. And the condescing tone was there, too. He was indirectly informing you that he was quaking in his boots at the fear of Hell and that you should be too. lol What a crock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I have a Christian buddy who promises to spring me from hell if it turns out he's right. Now if I could just get a friend like that in every religion, I'd be home free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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