Looking4Answers Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Many of you here know a bit about my past and what I have been forced to endure for leaving the faith. Even so, it seems that, until today, I may not have fully realized the horror that I escaped from! I was exited to de-converted and to be free to think once again, but I don't think the full impact of what I was involved in really hit me until now. What caused this change of mind? What helped me to see things in a better, clearer light? A documentary by the name of Jesus Camp. Have you seen this film? I am certain that it must have been talked about here when it first came out. However, today was the first time I have seen it. Given where I have come from and where I am today, I have to say, this was one of the most frightening films I have ever watched. I wept through most of it as I watched these poor children being brainwashed right in front of my eyes. I became angry and seriously wanted to break something in order to try to find a vent for my anger. I found myself crying as my face was twisted in rage and my foot was stomping the ground as I sat in my chair! I had to stop the film several times because I simply could not take in any more. I am beginning to understand the rage. My first organized thoughts while watching this documentary were, "This has got to be stopped! This cannot be allowed to continue!" Like the Christian that I used to be, I wanted to go to the mall and talk to strangers, but not to win them to Christ, but to warn them of the dangers of the church! I wanted to shout from the roof tops, "The insanity must stop!" I have too much in my life at the moment with the court case, trying to get back my children and all of that, to be anything effective. But I just cannot see myself as sitting idly by while people like this take the minds of children and poison them for life. I cannot see myself sitting by and simply pursuing the American Dream while so many suffer under this SHIT called Christianity. Oh, I realize that not all Christian groups are like the ones in that film, but I have witnessed many in my time as a fundamentalist. If you take out the speaking in tongues and the Christian hard rock music, they were JUST LIKE most of the churches I have ministered in up and down the east coast, in California and even in other countries. As far as I am concerned, Christianity is a cancer that desperately needs to be removed from this planet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I suppose you can try to take some solace that the camp in that movie was closed down. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 I suppose you can try to take some solace that the camp in that movie was closed down. That is good! Thank you for letting me know that. Even so, they are not the only ones. And, even without the camps, this sort of thing is being taught in many churches and Christian homes. I used the same home schooling material as that one mother was using in the video. I said many of the same things that these people were saying. And I know many, many people that are just like these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I suppose you can try to take some solace that the camp in that movie was closed down. mwc sadly that probably means there are dozens of others, washing brains behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I suppose you can try to take some solace that the camp in that movie was closed down. mwc Kind of a small victory though considering many of us here experienced pretty much the same indoctrination when we were kids. I know I did. That show pissed me off too as it brought back so many memories viewed from such a very different perspective now. Previously I'd remembered those times fondly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Well, I didn't think my statement was that general or emphatic. I realize that the one camp closing leaves many others but at least that one is gone. Maybe I'll try to invoke Godwin's law to get out of this? It would be like if one of the concentration camps closed. One could have tried taking some small solace knowing that at least one of them were out of operation. Sure the rest are still there but at least one is no more. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 mwc, I agree. Very much so! Again, thank you for letting me know. And, yes, it does help to know that that bitch of a woman was put out of business (as far as that camp goes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trike Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I guess I have a slightly different perspective on that movie. That movie was my childhood and a few of my friends that were in the audience with me grew up in that environment as well. But we all got out, some (read: me) with more mental scarring than others but this day we are all healthy and happy freethinkers. We watched it in a room crowded with people who grew up from a Reformed background, and they were all horrified by what they saw. Additionally, most people that I have kept in contact with or have met that have had backgrounds like that have since left the faith. So, I didn't get fuming mad about it, it pissed me a bit but it mostly brought back memories of my youth (especially that Carman song!) some bad but a lot good. In fact, my friends and I picked out who we were in the movie...my friend who now jokes about how Odin responded to his prayer once was the preacher boy with the bad hair and I was the little girl with no friends who colored pictures all day. And, of course, we laughed at the appearance by Ted Haggard and what a douche he was toward that little boy (who knows? maybe he pushed that kid in the right direction...?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's the question though, if you think back to the time when you were a hard-core Christian, what would have been your reaction to the movie back then? Would you have been just as outraged, or would you have brushed it off like a "fringe issue?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Until recently, I have thought EVERY DAY about the graphic story that I heard at Christian camp (Camp Eagle, L4A) about the man who burned alive. I've shared it before, but follow the link down to the section that says “Body and Soul” and the story is summarized there. http://www.fbbc.com/messages/one_step/one_step_26.htm . I might seem happy and healthy now, but it's taken me years to get over that. None of my fellow campers who I still know (many were Christian school classmates) have left Christianity. If they saw that movie now, they would think the proselytizing was a good thing, but denounce the Charismatic aspect. Because you know, speaking in tongues is ridiculous nonsense, but other parts of Christianity make perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here's the question though, if you think back to the time when you were a hard-core Christian, what would have been your reaction to the movie back then? Would you have been just as outraged, or would you have brushed it off like a "fringe issue?" Back when I was a Christian, I would have been saying "amen" to what that woman was saying. I now hold contempt for it and outrage like Looking4Answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 mwc, I agree. Very much so! Again, thank you for letting me know. And, yes, it does help to know that that bitch of a woman was put out of business (as far as that camp goes). Its also got to help that the Evangelist goading that little boy into more snake-oil selling BS got nailed for sexual misconduct (Haggard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 So, I didn't get fuming mad about it, it pissed me a bit but it mostly brought back memories of my youth (especially that Carman song!) some bad but a lot good. You know, I have a lot of great and endearing memories from when I was a Christian. I met some great people and had some great times. However, that does not stop me from wishing that I could go back in time and stop myself from ever making that initial profession of faith that lead me down that path! The fact that these kids spent years being brainwashed into a lie ... what would their lives have been like without all of that? Wouldn't there still be fond and wonderful memories? Perhaps more? Perhaps less? But without the crap of this arrogant religion being shoved down these poor kids throats! Until recently, I have thought EVERY DAY about the graphic story that I heard at Christian camp (Camp Eagle, L4A) about the man who burned alive. Yep. Good ol' Camp Eagle, right outside of Fincastle, Virginia and a ministry of Shenandoah Baptist Church! And, as you know, ClaraOlive, Pastor Bob Barton was the youth pastor at Shenandoah at that time. Ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahgrace Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 As much as I hate to rain on a parade, I must woefully inform you that even though the camp in Devil's Lake was closed, Becky Fischer is still continuing her ministry, and it appears to be growing. She has gone online and is networking internationally. Also, I read recently that Ted Haggard is back in the pulpit. I wrote a term paper on "Jesus Camp" a couple of months ago, and yeah, the subject matter is pernicious and infuriating for a number of different reasons. That approach to religion is dangerous in a lot of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ...I met some great people and had some great times. However, that does not stop me from wishing that I could go back in time and stop myself from ever making that initial profession of faith that lead me down that path!.. When I first realized that I wasn't a believer anymore I regretted the time I'd spent in the ministry, study, writing, evangelizing... What a waste it seemed at the time. But I don't think that way any longer. Even if I could go back and change there is no guarantee that I wouldn't choose something equally nonsensical. Seems like every decade I look back on as I get older I have to go, "WTF were you thinking?" If you spend your life slapping yourself for the past you're going to be mighty sore by the time you reach 70. You can't know what you don't know until after you find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Sadly, the fact that the one camp in the movie was closed doesn't mean much. There are camps like these all over the states, I know because I had to go to one when I was a kid... I was sent three times in fact. And it still exists. While not as unbearable as the camp in the Jesus camp video, it was only made more bearable by the fact that they have paintball and other activities that are actually fun. But I still was subjected to about 6 hours of the same cult crap in the movie every day ( 2hr service after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Here's the question though, if you think back to the time when you were a hard-core Christian, what would have been your reaction to the movie back then? Would you have been just as outraged, or would you have brushed it off like a "fringe issue?" I wouldn't have understood the controversy. It's only controversial if you consider it from the outside looking in. If you're inside that's your reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ...I met some great people and had some great times. However, that does not stop me from wishing that I could go back in time and stop myself from ever making that initial profession of faith that lead me down that path!.. When I first realized that I wasn't a believer anymore I regretted the time I'd spent in the ministry, study, writing, evangelizing... What a waste it seemed at the time. But I don't think that way any longer. Even if I could go back and change there is no guarantee that I wouldn't choose something equally nonsensical. Seems like every decade I look back on as I get older I have to go, "WTF were you thinking?" If you spend your life slapping yourself for the past you're going to be mighty sore by the time you reach 70. You can't know what you don't know until after you find out. I think L is just going through the anger stage of his deconversion. It's something we all have to go through and is quite healthy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandermac Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think L is just going through the anger stage of his deconversion. It's something we all have to go through and is quite healthy IMO. I think you're right Vigile. I keep going through that stage over and over. It's getting better but I long for the day when I just don't give a shit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted January 17, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think L is just going through the anger stage of his deconversion. It's something we all have to go through and is quite healthy IMO. Yeah, I called it my "better to be pissed off than to be pissed on" stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well, I might be going through a stage and I can accept that. But the point is that I cannot stomach the thought that this sort of thing is going on all around us. Some obviously escape from this sort of thing and may come through with little to no damage. Others may be scarred for life. However, there is the possibility that some will continue on and escalate things to the next level. These people are training to be "warriors for the Lord" and many are willing to do awful things in order to make their point. How far will they go in the days ahead? Why does it seem that so few are speaking up about this? I don't see it being talked about in the news, on the radio or in the papers. I don't hear anyone talk about this when they speak on the streets. I hear some stink, from time to time, about Muslim camps here in the USA, but what about these Christian ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 These people are training to be "warriors for the Lord" and many are willing to do awful things in order to make their point. How far will they go in the days ahead? Why does it seem that so few are speaking up about this? Yeah, it really is no different from Nazi youth. Given the right circumstances it certainly can grow into something much more ominous. History has proven as much. Unfortunately people don't learn from history and it's pretty damned difficult to get people to wake up about these types of dangers until after the fact. If the US were to ever slide into the type of circumstances that Post WWI Germany found herself in it will be a dangerous place because of this kind of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I saw it a while ago, and I was both angry and sad. Does anyone know what happened with the kids in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 My first organized thoughts while watching this documentary were, "This has got to be stopped! This cannot be allowed to continue!" Like the Christian that I used to be, I wanted to go to the mall and talk to strangers, but not to win them to Christ, but to warn them of the dangers of the church! I wanted to shout from the roof tops, "The insanity must stop!" I am responding to this original post before reading the rest, just to point out that I have felt similar for many years. (not really so much rage, but a need to see it end). This is why I have participated here for quite a while, and also why I started the partner site (in my sig). You CAN do something, you are not helpless. Participate here, on mine, and ALL the others you can find similar. Use blogs, start your own site, do whatever it takes to make a difference in a none violent way. True I personally seem hostile at times, and I am, but I am NOT violent, and I do persue every means at my disposal to help people realize on their own, that religion is delussion and very unhealthy for people's mental state. Hang in there, calm down and think things out. Make a plan to help with information and support for those suffering from religion. It also is not just xtianity, many other religions are venom to this world as well. The thing is, do without violence, to do otherwise would make you every bit as bad as them. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted January 17, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2009 These people are training to be "warriors for the Lord" and many are willing to do awful things in order to make their point. How far will they go in the days ahead? Why does it seem that so few are speaking up about this? Yeah, it really is no different from Nazi youth. Given the right circumstances it certainly can grow into something much more ominous. History has proven as much. Unfortunately people don't learn from history and it's pretty damned difficult to get people to wake up about these types of dangers until after the fact. If the US were to ever slide into the type of circumstances that Post WWI Germany found herself in it will be a dangerous place because of this kind of crap. WMDave has posted a video on the main blog.... "Jesus, We Are Yours" "Rick Warren of Saddleback Church seeks to motivate Christians toward deeper devotion and Christian activism through the "radical" examples of Adolph Hitler, Mao Zedung, Vladimir Lenin and their fanatical devotees." Frightening.... http://exchristian.net/2/2009/01/jesus-we-are-yours.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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