Iden Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I just recently looked into the new testament genealogies and compared them with the old testament. They were really so completly contradictig that its unbeliveable. So then I thought that now I had a 100% waterproof evidence that the Bible contradicted itself. But then suddenly I found a lot of apologetics explaining away the whole thing. In one way I find it really anoying because there is always a loophole and then christianity wins per default. On the same time it makes me feel really unsure. I don't really know what to belive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 28, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2009 Don't forget, apologetics is the art of making the unbelievable somehow plausible. If it made sense, there would be no need for apologetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 http://atheistwiki.wikispaces.com/Why+you+...+the+Bible+says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticjoe Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 You can find a lot of atheist "apologetics" here. They discuss many of the well known Christain apologists, and make mincemeat out of them. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 How about contradictory to reality? For instance where the Bible states: The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. (Genesis 9:2 NIV) Animals that have had zero contact with humans aren't afraid of humans at all. Darwin found that out in his expeditions and there was even a recent news article about a new section of...Taiwan I believe...that had been previously unexplored where a new breed of rat was discovered. The rats were downright curious about the humans; not even slightly afraid. Just one example among many. The Bible's just a book written by desert-wandering tribes-people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 there is always a loophole and then christianity wins per default. Wins by default? How so? According to what you just said they "won" by using a "loophole." That's not by "default" in my book. You made a valid case and then someone had to find a "loophole" to find a way out. You just gave up because you didn't stick to your guns. You could have simply said "No. I don't accept that answer since it isn't supported by the evidence" but instead you allowed it. You conceded. So, for example, these genealogies. I'm guessing we're talking the two different ones in the NT? One is supposed to be for Joseph and the other Mary, right? Wrong. Not supported by the text. But it's for the "in-law." But wait. Our author knows the word for "in-law" and uses it plenty. "In-law" fails. Both authors say what they mean and mean what they say. They simply developed the lists from two different sources (unlike most of the rest of the story). The lists are contradictory to one another and the OT (as one leaves out people and the other invents people altogether). They both fail. Apologetics don't "win" they make you concede. Don't concede. On the same time it makes me feel really unsure. I don't really know what to belive. I was just looking up something else and came across this passage in 1 Kings 22: 19 And he said, Give ear now to the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord seated on his seat of power, with all the army of heaven in their places round him at his right hand and at his left. 20 And the Lord said, How may Ahab be tricked into going up to Ramoth-gilead to his death? And one said one thing and one another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and took his place before the Lord and said, I will get him to do it by a trick. 22 And the Lord said, How? And he said, I will go out and be a spirit of deceit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Your trick will have its effect on him: go out and do so. 23 And now, see, the Lord has put a spirit of deceit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has said evil against you. And why? Well, he worshiped the wrong god and was married to that bitch Jezebel. But for a moment it almost seemed like he was going to get a reprieve: 21:28 Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Do you see how Ahab has made himself low before me? because he has made himself low before me, I will not send the evil in his life-time, but in his son's time I will send the evil on his family. See that bold part? Read it good. Do you feel "secure" following a supposed all-knowing "god" that has to ask, that's right ask, his angels how to go about tricking a human to go off to his death? He's literally getting pitched the idea to have his "prophets" speak lies and he green lights it. After all this crap about his prophets being truth tellers and he knowing all things and his being able to strike people down at will...except here. Not this time. He's a lying pussy who lets someone else do his dirty work and he takes pride in it. What a guy. Oh, and I guess the "loophole" here is that he didn't really send "evil" in his lifetime but the "evil" simply ended his life (which would be in his sons lifetime and would be "evil on his family"). Again, if you feel "secure" following a "god" like this then go right ahead. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iden Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 yeah. It certainly not objective. I doubt any of the apologetic would ever put their faith to the test to chek if it holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Consider this verse from the Christian Bible: But avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions, and strivings about the Law, for they are unprofitable and vain. (Tit 3:9) I was taught that this meant the genealogy of Jesus was not as important as the 'fact' he lived and brought us grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Jesus' genealogy would not be complete since his father was supposedly from heaven. Some churches teach that one version of Jesus' genealogy was of Mary and the other Joseph which meant that even as an adopted son he was still related to the throne of David. Christian apologetics are not the average reasoning skills one would find in children, let alone adults. Apologetics are more of excuses than evidence. Apologetics are used to sow the seeds of doubt in a person's mind that has already made up his mind to reject Christ and make one repent to Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iden Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've read something about that the Jewish Talmud speaks about Mary being the daughter of Heli. Is there anything about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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