Pride

[Mike D]

The other day I was sitting at a red light and there was this car in front of me, and I noticed it had a bumper sticker which read "brown pride". For whatever reason I don't recall ever hearing that term before, and I wasn't sure what or who it was referring to. Then I noticed another sticker that said something about Latino community radio or something, so I guess I assumed that a brown person is a Latino. That was until yesterday when I heard a Phillipino person refer to himself as a "brown person". Are these new terms or have I just been living under a rock somewhere?

 

Anyway that got me thinking about the whole idea of having pride in things like race, or sexuality or whatever. For some reason I don't get this. I am a gay person, but I can't say i've ever felt "proud" to be gay, it's just something I am. I am also white, and I don't feel any sort of pride for that either. Good thing too because in the US it seems it's ok to be proud of your race, unless you are white. So I suppose I would get my ass kicked if I wore a t-shirt that said "white pride". What about heterosexuals.... how would they be treated if they wore a t-shirt that said "straight pride"? As a gay person this would not offend me, because if I should be able to have pride in my sexuality, so should they.

 

Am I the only person who doesn't totally get this whole type of pride? I can feel pride for accomplishing something or overcoming some obstacle in my life, but why should I feel pride for just existing as myself from day to day? And why is it ok for some to feel this type of pride and others not? For example why is it ok to be proud to be brown, but it's not ok to be proud to be white? Isn't this a form of special pleading?

 

And I know I might be opening a can of worms here, but what the hell it's Sunday and I am bored...

[florduh]

I don't get it either, but I thought it was just because I'm old.

[deb]

I don't get it either, but I thought it was just because I'm old.

 

Florduh, u effing crack me up

 

Deb

[florduh]

Thanks, deb. That's quite a feat.

 

Speaking of feet . . .

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I think the whole "pride in what you are" thing is a bit low-brow, but in some ways it is a backlash against oppression that was intended to make them feel bad or less human for being ______ (black, brown, Indian, gay, gypsy, etc, and white). I see it in the same vein as t-shirts and bumper stickers that proclaim a particular band or football team. It is a way to say "I like this thing. You like this thing? We like this thing. It rocks. This my opinion. It true. You no like it, you stooopid." But perhaps I'm over generalizing.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Somewhat pisses me off.

 

If you the non X-Pride displayer of does not agree fully and totally with whatever agenda or contract the X-Prider is selling, you are a BIGOT-RACIALIST-HATER...

 

Fuck that shit. obviously "you" are not a well armed, very well trained mean_old_prideful_man.. and oughta be fucking careful about accosting the "gimpy old sod"... Ya never know.

 

Irritates me that folks gotta be so damn divisive with their sound byte driven "say so" advertising.

 

Fuckit, I'm gonna go back to my cave and cut the TV cable..

 

Wait, then I'd be a TV Cable Installer Guy Pride hater... Sheeze..

 

kFL

[pitchu]

I agree it's hard to understand proclaiming pride in that for which you're in no way responsible. But since the "pride" movements have to do with categories of people who've been treated badly and who've been devalued by society in general, I think "pride" is being used in these instances as a rejection of shame.

 

Unfortunately, there's just no catchy word which means "rejection of shame," hence: pride.

[GraphicsGuy]

Just watch the comedian Russell Peters...tons of talk about "brown people" there...

 

One thing about it, in 2 or 3 hundred years everyone will be a wonderful shade of mocha...

[RubyHypatia]

As Penn said on his show, Bullshit, about Reparations, "Circumstances of birth are nothing more than random and should never be a source of pride or shame."

[Neon Genesis]

I agree it's hard to understand proclaiming pride in that for which you're in no way responsible. But since the "pride" movements have to do with categories of people who've been treated badly and who've been devalued by society in general, I think "pride" is being used in these instances as a rejection of shame.

 

Unfortunately, there's just no catchy word which means "rejection of shame," hence: pride.

I agree with this. Most of the time when people use "pride" in this sense, they're saying they have self-worth as an equal human being, but gay pride parade just sounds catchier to say than gay self worth parade.

[Guest kcdad]

Unfortunately, there's just no catchy word which means "rejection of shame," hence: pride.

 

I think that is exactly right. Most "pride" campaigns come out of oppressed communities... blacks, gays, immigrants, etc... The "brown" pride movement I think began in California with the Chicanos who saw the advances Blacks were making in their (the Chicanos) native land (occupied California) against their same oppressors.

 

It is not so much we are proud of who we are... but, instead, we have no reason to be ashamed of who we are.

[Guest kcdad]

As Penn said on his show, Bullshit, about Reparations, "Circumstances of birth are nothing more than random and should never be a source of pride or shame."

 

...nor financial or social privilege.

[white_raven23]

My first thought when I saw that this morning was: "What? Someone manage to poop after being constipated for a week?"

 

The "instant" meaning of a lot of race related cliche's are going to lose context over time.

 

Someone else could easily suppose someone is very thrilled with the quality of their neutrals in their wardrobe.

[nightflight]

Problem is, you have many whites who come from poor backgrounds, who are constantly bombarded via media that they are an oppressor class. Its the secular version of original sin. A poor white can eventually feel resentment towards other races, and may even act on it.

[Vomit Comet]

It's just like saying "Black is Beautiful" to counter the ideology that white is but black isn't. It's saying "fuck you" to the racist people -- including teachers we had as small fuckin' children -- who have gone out of their way to remind us that we were shit. It's to reverse the psychological damage that many of us incurred as children, and to counter ideologies that yet linger in the dominant culture. That said, I got over the whole "Brown Pride" thing by my third year of college. It's just one of those phases, you know? But I feel it was a necessary and healthy one for me to go through, especially since I grew up in a neighborhood where only 30% of us were Latinos, and we were subjected to a lot of shit from certain people. Most whites were cool with us, but many were not, and their hostility was often expressed with real violence. My area of L.A. County, where I came from, had one of the highest concentrations of racist skinhead types. The Nazi Lowriders originated just up the road from where I grew up, and they're currently out-competing the Aryan Brotherhood to become the #1 white prison gang in the California system.

 

Also, "White Pride" is an actual gang/affiliation/association, and they use the Celtic cross as their symbol. I'm surprised you've never heard of them or seen their propaganda. Although maybe it was just a lot, lot more conspicuous up on my end of the County.

 

As for poor whites, ever since Colonial times but especially in the high antebellum years, they were told that they were better than blacks and that by virtue of their skin color they were proudly akin to upper class whites who owned most the slaves. (It cut both ways, actually. Black slaves were taught to ridicule and look down on poor white dirt farmers that were too poor to own slaves.) That's so that they would "kiss up while stepping down." They had someone to kick around (blacks, Indians, Mexicans, etc.), which kept them from directing their negative energy at their economic superiors who happened to be of their same race. It's similar to how Jews ended up being the "middlemen of history", and the average proud German could kick them around while remaining willfully ignorant to the parts played by the Big(gest) Fish that fucked everything up. It's easier to focus your rage on the Jewish banker who has to repo your farm, rather than on the ultra-high top-tier elites (almost none of whom were Jews) whose royal macro-level fuck ups led to the conditions that caused your farm to go under.

[Vomit Comet]

As Penn said on his show, Bullshit, about Reparations, "Circumstances of birth are nothing more than random and should never be a source of pride or shame."

 

Yes, but the cultural ideologies you get faced with from a very early age are very real and often must be actively countered so that you, or your kids, will manage to grow up healthy and whole.

 

Seriously, non-white couples often have to have this discussion before they start having kids. It's not the 1950s anymore, but that doesn't mean the air has been cleared. You have to put in quite a bit of special effort to make sure a brown or black child is able to grow up with self-worth in this culture. Well, those of you considering raising your kids as atheists, especially in a place like northern Florida or something, probably can empathize.

[Mike D]

Also, "White Pride" is an actual gang/affiliation/association, and they use the Celtic cross as their symbol. I'm surprised you've never heard of them or seen their propaganda. Although maybe it was just a lot, lot more conspicuous up on my end of the County.

I've heard of "White Pride" used as a slogan by white nationalist/separatist groups, etc., but I didn't know it was the official name of an organized group. Kind of the same thing as a "peckerwood" I guess, it's a term that some people use to identify with, but it's not the official name of a group that I am aware. But mainly I was referring to white pride used in the context of self affirmation, vs a way to degrade non-whites. I think if a white person decided they simply wanted to express their pride in their race, they would be made to feel shameful or accused by being a racist.

[deb]

Thanks, deb. That's quite a feat.

 

Speaking of feet . . .

 

I just now saw this...as i said before, u effing crack me up

[Vomit Comet]

Kind of the same thing as a "peckerwood" I guess, it's a term that some people use to identify with, but it's not the official name of a group that I am aware.

 

Actually, it is. They were one of the biggest gangs in my corner of the county.

[Vomit Comet]

But mainly I was referring to white pride used in the context of self affirmation

 

1. What would be the point? Countering the feeling of being threatened somehow?

 

2. What is "white" anyways?

 

3. Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans seem openly proud, even today. What do they have in common? They were treated like dog shit when they got here. I don't know about Ireland, but in Italy if an Italian guy displays that kind of chest-thumping ethnic pride, he'll be seen as a right wing Mussolini-loving goon. Why? Because everyone is Italian in Italy except for immigrants and indigenous minorities. I could see Irish Catholic pride in Northern Ireland where they got the shit end of the stick on their own native soil.

[Mike D]

But mainly I was referring to white pride used in the context of self affirmation

1. What would be the point? Countering the feeling of being threatened somehow?

I guess if a white person decides they want to show pride in their race, then that would be the point, at least to that person. To other people there might not be a point.

[Guest kcdad]

Problem is, you have many whites who come from poor backgrounds, who are constantly bombarded via media that they are an oppressor class. Its the secular version of original sin. A poor white can eventually feel resentment towards other races, and may even act on it.

 

That is part of the evil of it, poor whites are anything but "white". They are hicks, trailer trash, hillbillies, rednecks... in many ways because they are white, they are lower than other minorities.

 

When Sociologists speak of white racism, we are talking about the elite, upper, and upper middle class whites from English backgrounds mainly, that have established themselves as the elites in society. They are the standard for beauty, language (dialect), culture and traditions. Tim Wise is a great source of information about white privilege.

Oppression isn't about race... it is about class. Race is a red herring.

[R. S. Martin]

But mainly I was referring to white pride used in the context of self affirmation

1. What would be the point? Countering the feeling of being threatened somehow?

I guess if a white person decides they want to show pride in their race, then that would be the point, at least to that person. To other people there might not be a point.

 

 

What really bugs me is when I'm just living my own life and going my own way, then darker-skinned people start talking about what a racist person I am or they start making fun of me--all for no other reason than the fact that I happen to be of the White Race. That's racism, pure and simple. I also find it equally offensive when Natives hold me personally accountable for taking away their land one, two, three, and four centuries ago. I NEVER OWNED LAND IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!

 

They, however, get free education while I have to go into debt over my ears for the same education. They don't have to pay taxes while all other people have to pay taxes. The list goes on. All because of my skin colour.

 

There are two sides of every coin. At least, there were last time I looked.

 

Most people are nice but I meet the odd case that are racist to whites.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

But mainly I was referring to white pride used in the context of self affirmation

1. What would be the point? Countering the feeling of being threatened somehow?

I guess if a white person decides they want to show pride in their race, then that would be the point, at least to that person. To other people there might not be a point.

 

 

What really bugs me is when I'm just living my own life and going my own way, then darker-skinned people start talking about what a racist person I am or they start making fun of me--all for no other reason than the fact that I happen to be of the White Race. That's racism, pure and simple. I also find it equally offensive when Natives hold me personally accountable for taking away their land one, two, three, and four centuries ago. I NEVER OWNED LAND IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!

 

They, however, get free education while I have to go into debt over my ears for the same education. They don't have to pay taxes while all other people have to pay taxes. The list goes on. All because of my skin colour.

 

There are two sides of every coin. At least, there were last time I looked.

 

Most people are nice but I meet the odd case that are racist to whites.

 

 

Not every Native gets free school or no taxes there, you know. Only ones who live on the rez, where my cousins do. And just because they pay no taxes doesn't make them any richer, nor does it give them a higher quality of life.

 

America is a land with a history of racism that is harder than shit to shake off. Witness our new president; he wasn't "black enough" for some. However, he's also half-black, but everyone simply refers to him as "black," as if he can only be half of himself. Just as I'm generally only "Mexican," even though I'm half-white and half-Mexican. And for that reason I went through utter hell in school, surrounded as I was by white kids who had grown up ignorant of anything outside our community. Were they racist? I don't think so; just stupid. A couple definitely were, and plenty I know now would claim to be. But mostly, just stupid, ignorant fucks.

 

So yes, for me, "Brown Pride" would be an affirmation of sorts against those idiots. To give them the middle finger, so to speak, and remind them that yeh, I may be brown, but I'm not ashamed of being so. However, I'm also now 27 and quite old enough not to give that much of a shit to slap it on my car. I need that space for other subversive stickers.

 

Oh; and I should say, being made fun of (even in a non-serious way) because of your skin isn't new. My FWB makes fun of Mexicans all the time when he's with me, and claims Italians "aren't human." Now, is he kidding? Fully. He's not racist in that way. But does he think those jokes are amusing because I'm a minority? Yes indeed. And I'm sleeping with this guy. But he also argues with me over history, that because native people (in any country) didn't "write it down," it only matters when whites did, because they were literate enough to make a note of it. He thinks American history is being "too liberal" because it's moving towards acknowledgement of other races' achievements in this hemisphere, because, again, "they didn't write it down first, so who cares." Is this racism? Again, I think it's just stupidity. And maybe a touch of mulishness. You don't want to have to change what you've known as a truth for so long.

[Vomit Comet]

Sokudo: awesome to hear from a fellow half Mess'kin. Or... Chicanglo? Sounds like you and I are cut from the same cloth in that regard.