Caretaker Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Welcome from somebody studying math at OSU! I see we have a couple of newcomers from Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sojo Nothingness Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I think I may be currently turning into a former Christian. This idea is still scary for me. I'm in a place where I don't actually know what I think and/or believe about, well basic foundational core beliefs. A few months ago I read the first 15 pages or so of Harris' "Letter to a Christian Nation" and it was so well written, so full of excellent points that I could not argue against, points that made total sense. I felt for the first time that maybe the faith I've believed in my whole life isn't true. But at the same time I felt very afraid of what that realization would mean for me and was sent into an emotional breakdown, sobbing on my husbands shoulder in fear and pain. The crumbling of the world view I was given as a child came with overwhelming pain. I still haven't picked up that book again. But I have continued to do some searching, just in a slower, less dramatic way. Basically I'm going from what feels like a brainwashed state over the last 20 years in a Southern evangelical Christian style of belief system to an what feels like having my eyes opened to a new cosmology completely. I will try to sum up the beliefs I'm finding myself gravitating towards and I welcome your comments. Things I'm realizing: Actually, the bible isn't inerrant. Wow, the bible seems like it's probably a man made story that is kind of sloppy in the way it was put together and has contradictions and violations of basic morals in it. That makes it very hard for me to believe in the God of the bible. But it is also hard to not believe in Him because of my fear of hell, and because I have actually felt like I was in a relationship with this person God/Jesus before so it feels like I might be betraying a real person, a real relationship by my lack of belief. I am astounded to find out how common it is for people to actually want to believe but find that they can't. In the evangelical Christian culture, this is not known or admitted. They like to say that people who don't believe, refuse to believe so they can go on living selfish, sinful lives. That just doesn't make sense. Never did actually. It seems that hell is probably not real. It would be an understatement to say that this is a huge revelation to me. (no pun intended) Wow, hell probably isn't real?! It seems completely unjust for God to create a system in which humans get infinite punishment for finite sin. It seems over the top cruel. I feel that I wouldn't even decide to send child rapists to hell for eternity if I had that kind of power. I mean, sure if given the power, I'd give them something awful like total castration and 80 years worth of beatings or something else really rough, but I would simply not have it in me to wish eternal misery on someone. Eternal misery! Ughh. Sick idea. I have never allowed myself to question the character or rightness of God before. It is terrifying to do so. But once I let myself open my mind, I can't keep from noticing how unjust this idea of hell is. My Christian mom pointed out to me that I was making a value judgment about God and that that is not acceptable. All of the above can not be seen by those who believe because the very belief is self protective in that the Christian can not allow themselves to truly consider such blasphemous things to be an actual possibility. As Tarico brought up in chap. 14 of The Dark Side...how can heaven be free from suffering if those in heaven will be aware of the existence of hell and that there are people in it? That thought would be upsetting to those in heaven therefore heaven would have suffering in it. (a major contradiction) Or for this awareness to not be bothersome to those in heaven, they would need to have no compassion, mercy, empathy and therefore can not be holy as the bible claims those in heaven will be. This is a huge contradiction and one that would be hard for me to get over in order to try to keep the faith. I have gone through moments of very real fear of hell as I've gone on this spiritual quest. In conversations with my husband (who is on a similar journey as I am on) when we've come to the point that it seems clear that the Christian doctrine isn't true I have started to almost panic and said that we ought to try to believe just in case it's true so we don't go to hell. He told me that was something called Pascal's Wager and I was surprised to hear that, sat and thought about it and then said- well, it sounds dumb, but we ought to take the wager! And I meant it. I practically begged my husband to take the wager. Now that I'm further down the road of education in this area I've started to realize that hell may actually not be real I'm starting to feel less afraid of it. But then I think "Oh man, the devil must really have a hold of my thoughts!" The above sounds like a brainwashed person to me. I have actually felt like God is lurking nearby feeling very sad and disappointed in me for reading Harris, or Tarico etc. I still feel like I'm doing something very wrong when I type in "exchristian.net". I know that if my mom knew I was going on this site she would chew me out while simultaneously crying in fear for my soul. This makes my quest for truth very uncomfortable, difficult and scary. I wish I felt more freedom to explore. I've heard that before the bible was written there was at least one other religion that involved a very similar story of virgin birth, sacrificial death to pay for sins etc. This gives me a lot of doubt about the bible but I have yet to confirm those claims by research. Anyone know where I can read about this from a reputable source but a source that isn't too difficult to read? Even years ago when I still considered myself a Christian and never would've imagined that I could actually lose my faith someday...even then, I was starting to feel repulsed by the bible when I read it. Something about the way it sounded was disgusting to me. It sounded like a bunch of weird, made up crap, sort of like what the mormon doctrine sounds like. It just sounded like crazy talk to me. I felt very disturbed with myself for having such feelings. I guess I've been on this journey longer than I realized. Does it sound to you all like I've been brainwashed? Is it possible that I am actually moving away from God and towards Satan and hell by thinking this way? I realize that this may be a messy display of my thoughts- and that is exactly how it feels inside my brain. Thank you for your company as I try to sort out my thoughts/feelings. I would take it easy and realistically approach the questions that arise and examine them. There's actually no hurry to leave your faith, and conversely no hurry to remain with a faith that becomes disillusioning. I would recommend that you approach things realistically and don't attach to fanciful or rosy images and ideas as solutions that may further enhance the conundrum. Observe whats accurate and whats not for the time being. Best wishes, SN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sojo Nothingness Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have gone through moments of very real fear of hell as I've gone on this spiritual quest. In conversations with my husband (who is on a similar journey as I am on) when we've come to the point that it seems clear that the Christian doctrine isn't true I have started to almost panic and said that we ought to try to believe just in case it's true so we don't go to hell. He told me that was something called Pascal's Wager and I was surprised to hear that, sat and thought about it and then said- well, it sounds dumb, but we ought to take the wager! And I meant it. I practically begged my husband to take the wager. Now that I'm further down the road of education in this area I've started to realize that hell may actually not be real I'm starting to feel less afraid of it. But then I think "Oh man, the devil must really have a hold of my thoughts!" The above sounds like a brainwashed person to me. I have actually felt like God is lurking nearby feeling very sad and disappointed in me for reading Harris, or Tarico etc. I still feel like I'm doing something very wrong when I type in "exchristian.net". I know that if my mom knew I was going on this site she would chew me out while simultaneously crying in fear for my soul. This makes my quest for truth very uncomfortable, difficult and scary. I wish I felt more freedom to explore. This is EXACTLY what Im going through right now and i have NO CLUE how to get over it You don't have to get over it. Let it dissolve on it's own. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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