Spoke with a baptist at work.

[Guest Zoe Grace]

I don't understand. I spoke with a reasonably intelligent man at work tonight at length. Yet he believes things like Hell is ok...and that humans can't judge god. if it's that way, it's just that way according to him.

 

He believes that if a god exists that that god can be known and a bunch of other stuff that seems more like wishful thinking.

 

He insists he doesn't really care one way or the other about an afterlife but when I questioned him specifically on it, he veered the discussion off somewhere else.

 

I'm confused, in that I don't know what to do with Christians like this. Their very belief system is offensive to me. That they think any creator of the universe would not be insulted by their myths irritates me.

 

They can be nice people and reasonably intelligent...but...I dont' know, it's just bizarre.

 

I can't really put into words my feelings on this one. See he's one of those that was a christian then was a rabid atheist for awhile, then reconverted. Argh. I don't know. He's an apologist...and I never know what to do with them cause they are so sure of themselves.

[Checkmate]

I don't understand.  I spoke with a reasonably intelligent man at work tonight at length.  Yet he believes things like Hell is ok...and that humans can't judge god.  if it's that way, it's just that way according to him.

 

He believes that if a god exists that that god can be known and a bunch of other stuff that seems more like wishful thinking.

 

He insists he doesn't really care one way or the other about an afterlife but when I questioned him specifically on it, he veered the discussion off somewhere else.

 

I'm confused, in that I don't know what to do with Christians like this.  Their very belief system is offensive to me.  That they think any creator of the universe would not be insulted by their myths irritates me.

 

They can be nice people and reasonably intelligent...but...I dont' know, it's just bizarre.

 

I can't really put into words my feelings on this one.  See he's one of those that was a christian then was a rabid atheist for awhile, then reconverted.  Argh.  I don't know.  He's an apologist...and I never know what to do with them cause they are so sure of themselves.

 

 

Maybe this will help: Imagine your colleague in a strait jacket and a rubber room. This imagery will put him in perfect context and allow you to appropriate the attitude you need to have towards him.

 

Humor him, (and don't make eye contact!) because, like his Xian friends, he IS delusional and in need of mental care.

 

Patients of mental asylums are SURE THEIR delusions are true also. What is scary about religious people is that THEY have managed to escape detection by the authorities (since THEIR particular psychosis is considered BENIGN) and they wander FREE amongst us.

 

 

 

 

Laugh if you want to, but you know I'm speaking the truth.

[Amethyst]

I'm confused, in that I don't know what to do with Christians like this. Their very belief system is offensive to me. That they think any creator of the universe would not be insulted by their myths irritates me.

 

I have found that the best thing to do is never discuss religion or politics with people like that, especially at work. Although I have a fuundy cube mate who tries to get me to debate all the time. I keep telling him to find someone outside of work to debate with. He says he debates on instant messenger, and on the dating sites, and he wonders why he can't get a date. I've told him that most women don't like that. They want someone who will respect their views. But he just doesn't get it.

[Mike D]

See he's one of those that was a christian then was a rabid atheist for awhile, then reconverted. 

I just don't get how someone can leave Christianity, become an atheist and then go back to Christianity. He was never a true atheist

[Vigile]

I just don't get how someone can leave Christianity, become an atheist and then go back to Christianity.  He was never a true atheist

 

Uh oh. Isn't that what they tell us about xtianity?

 

I agree with you BTW

[fallenleaf]

I have known many otherwise very intelligent people who happen to be Christians (or even many other beliefs). With these people there is almost like a breaker in their intellectual mind which gets tripped when the subject of what they believe is brought to conscious thought. You can almost see the complete mental disconnect as they switch from topics requiring critical thought and religion.

 

I believe it is a defense mechanism they use to prevent deconverting themselves -- or maybe not. But I've seen it before. And I love it when someone says that, "So-and-so's very smart... and s/he's a Christian." Intelligence has nothing to do with it! If religion was about intelligence than it wouldn't demand the faith of a child.

[Dark Helmet]

I have known many otherwise very intelligent people who happen to be Christians (or even many other beliefs).  With these people there is almost like a breaker in their intellectual mind which gets tripped when the subject of what they believe is brought to conscious thought.  You can almost see the complete mental disconnect as they switch from topics requiring critical thought and religion.

 

I  believe it is a defense mechanism they use to prevent deconverting themselves -- or maybe not.  But I've seen it before.  And I love it when someone says that, "So-and-so's very smart... and s/he's a Christian." Intelligence has nothing to do with it!  If religion was about intelligence than it wouldn't demand the faith of a child.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, it's pretty sad. A good friend of mine is christian and he's really smart but he lives with his post-doc theologian father and a very very very christian family. I really hope he'll get out of there one day and see things from another perspective than the buybull. Funny thing is he's studying physics... I wonder how he'll cope with the big bang section and quantum physics.

[Caretaker]

Humans can be amusingly illogical at times. The other day, I was discussing logic with my devout catholic uncle, and he even admitted that the Bible is full of circular logic.

[Mike D]

Uh oh.  Isn't that what they tell us about xtianity? 

 

I agree with you BTW

Yeah, in fact at first I was going to say he was never a True Christian ™ because he was one and then he became an atheist. But then he went back to Christianity. I guess the only True Christians and True Atheists are the dead ones

[TruthWarrior]

They can be nice people and reasonably intelligent...but...I dont' know, it's just bizarre.

 

They just caught up in a belief system controlled by fear. They fear questioning god because they might become atheist and go to hell. Hell they even fear questioning hell! Then they fear other things like not being baptised the right way or missing church services or not tithing. You don't want to make god angry you know, he gets very emotional over the smallest of things.

 

I read that some Church of Christ churches think others churches who use more then one cup for communion are going to hell for not obeying god right. Fear makes people do crazy things.

[Kay]

They can be nice people and reasonably intelligent

 

A not so new discovery....I wish to disagree with the above quote.

 

I started a similar thread about resonably intelligent co-worker turning around one night and telling me he was a bible-inerrantist.

 

I still tried to see him as a good friend in my mind, but when I find out someone's a fundie, I feel dubious about them as a person, and I don't really want to be so friendly with them any more. I deduced two reasons:

 

1) you think they only want to be your friend because they just want to sucker you into their church; and

 

2) your friend's ok, and not at all angry or upset with god, that another human being not much better or worse than them, will spend eternity being tormented in hell merely because science so far has pawned Genesis' ass.

 

Then finally, I came across my third reason. It's probably my most compelling:

 

3) A fundie christian is only 'good' and 'moral' because they fear the punishment of god.

 

This makes me afraid to no end. What kind of person are they, that they only uphold principles if only because they're threatened to do so? If one day, god decides to take a vacation and for one day, there is no threat of hell, my concern is that a fundie's moral restraints, what makes them 'good' people, will disappear and they cannot comprehend right from wrong.

 

Confucius said it was more effective to make people understand why something is wrong instead of deterring people from a particular act by sheer intimidation.

 

Living life is about understanding. It comes across to me that fundies don't understand - they just 'do' because they have to or otherwise it's the lake o fire for them. It horrifies me that they therefore cannot be good people without the blade of the guillotine hanging above their heads.

 

At the end of the day, I don't really feel comfortable being friends with such morally shallow people like that. They're not nice people - they have to be, because God bullied them into it.

[trashy]

I'm confused, in that I don't know what to do with Christians like this.  Their very belief system is offensive to me.  That they think any creator of the universe would not be insulted by their myths irritates me.

Is he attempting to convert you? Because unless he's pestering you I don't understand why his beliefs should *offend* you. Just wondering...

[Godless Wonder]

And I love it when someone says that, "So-and-so's very smart... and s/he's a Christian." Intelligence has nothing to do with it!  If

Reminds me of a Simpsons episode in which Maggie takes an intelligence test. The tester says something like, ""One Sixty Seven! That's amazing for a Christian."

[Antlerman]

3) A fundie christian is only 'good' and 'moral' because they fear the punishment of god.

 

This makes me afraid to no end. What kind of person are they, that they only uphold principles if only because they're threatened to do so? If one day, god decides to take a vacation and for one day, there is no threat of hell, my concern is that a fundie's moral restraints, what makes them 'good' people, will disappear and they cannot comprehend right from wrong.

 

Confucius said it was more effective to make people understand why something is wrong instead of deterring people from a particular act by sheer intimidation.

 

Living life is about understanding. It comes across to me that fundies don't understand - they just 'do' because they have to or otherwise it's the lake o fire for them. It horrifies me that they therefore cannot be good people without the blade of the guillotine hanging above their heads.

 

At the end of the day, I don't really feel comfortable being friends with such morally shallow people like that. They're not nice people - they have to be, because God bullied them into it.

 

I think you've really hit on something that explains so much. Often times the very first question I hear from a Christian when I tell them I'm an atheist, is what is there then to keep us from just going out and killing someone? Of course there are easy replies to this, but the greater point is why they would even think that! Are they hanging onto a belief in God because they have a horrifying sense of lacking any basic self-control or respect of others??

 

Why are they so fearful of their beliefs being threatened? Is it because they think they'll fly out of control and start killing people? Yikes! Should we then then view their religious beliefs as a symptom of some deeper and rather disturbing problem? I would think then that being an atheist should show that you are better in control because you are not needing to feel threatened to be a good person.

[dead_hobbit]

Things will always be that way with a person's deepest beliefs.

 

It doesn't matter what area of a person's life - it could be love, politics, religion (or lack thereof). People will almost always be that way.

[spamandham]

I'm confused, in that I don't know what to do with Christians like this.  Their very belief system is offensive to me.  That they think any creator of the universe would not be insulted by their myths irritates me.

 

If this individual is the one bringing the subject up, you will have to decide whether or not it makes sense to cater to them (if it's your boss or if your boss is a fundy, try to divert the discussion back to work). If you don't feel the need to cater to them to protect your position, and you feel they are being preachy rather than just looking for common ground, then just lay it on the line. "I don't believe in god, and find the whole concept pretty silly." - or whatever is your position.

 

If you think they are just looking for common ground, you might be more subtle, "I'm not religious".

 

If you're the one bringing it up, then be courteous and listen.

[Amanda]

They just caught up in a belief system controlled by fear. They fear questioning god because they might become atheist and go to hell. Hell they even fear questioning hell! Then they fear other things like not being baptised the right way or missing church services or not tithing. You don't want to make god angry you know, he gets very emotional over the smallest of things. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Truth Warrior, FWIW... I believe you have come very close... yet what I think the 'fear' is... that each one who does not believe the way that Christian does, will go to hell. Many here were Christians... and hopefully understand... that these other Christians feel that if others do not grasp the concept they have... their friend will be lost in outer darkness... and THAT is a 'heavy' concept!!! Those Christians that seek to persuade you... it's actually because they care about you, love you!

 

Now, I'm a Christian... who believes that Christ can not fail. He came to save the WORLD... and its a done deal... believe how you want... it's not MY job to save you... it's already been done... for each and EVERY one of us! Yet, if you don't believe that as a Christian... you desperately want to make sure all your friends and associates make it to the other side...

[spamandham]

Many here were Christians... and hopefully understand... that these other Christians feel that if others do not grasp the concept they have... their friend will be lost in outer darkness... and THAT is a 'heavy' concept!!! Those Christians that seek to persuade you... it's actually because they care about you, love you!

 

While this may be true of a small percentage, the vast vast majority are merely trying to disuade their own doubts. Convincing someone else about your perspective is a major reinforcement of that perspective.

 

You can tell which type you're dealing with by their attitude. Some (and in my judgement that includes you Amanda) are playing both ends; truly concerned, but also motivated by your own doubts.

[Amanda]

You can tell which type you're dealing with by their attitude.  Some (and in my judgement that includes you Amanda) are playing both ends; truly concerned, but also motivated by your own doubts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Spandham, I assure you... I think that you and I are ending up in the same place of peace and joy... neither of us receiving more or less! I do want to be open minded, as I do not think I know EVERYTHING. So, Spandham... if you have some convincing information to the contrary... I'd be interested in seeing it. I would not say that I am 'concerned'... only of lives, ... and as far as doubts, I like to be learning and refining and seeking truth, whatever it may be... as I see doubt and the testing of it, as a way to fortify faith.

 

BTW... What ARE the 'both ends' YOU are referring?

[spamandham]

BTW... What ARE the 'both ends' YOU are referring? 

 

 

(ok that wasn't what I was originally thinking, but it is now)

[Sokudo Ningyou]

A not so new discovery....I wish to disagree with the above quote.

 

I started a similar thread about resonably intelligent co-worker turning around one night and telling me he was a bible-inerrantist.

 

I still tried to see him as a good friend in my mind, but when I find out someone's a fundie, I feel dubious about them as a person, and I don't really want to be so friendly with them any more. I deduced two reasons:

 

1) you think they only want to be your friend because they just want to sucker you into their church; and

 

2) your friend's ok, and not at all angry or upset with god, that another human being not much better or worse than them, will spend eternity being tormented in hell merely because science so far has pawned Genesis' ass.

 

Then finally, I came across my third reason. It's probably my most compelling:

 

3) A fundie christian is only 'good' and 'moral' because they fear the punishment of god.

 

This makes me afraid to no end. What kind of person are they, that they only uphold principles if only because they're threatened to do so? If one day, god decides to take a vacation and for one day, there is no threat of hell, my concern is that a fundie's moral restraints, what makes them 'good' people, will disappear and they cannot comprehend right from wrong.

 

Confucius said it was more effective to make people understand why something is wrong instead of deterring people from a particular act by sheer intimidation.

 

Living life is about understanding. It comes across to me that fundies don't understand - they just 'do' because they have to or otherwise it's the lake o fire for them. It horrifies me that they therefore cannot be good people without the blade of the guillotine hanging above their heads.

 

At the end of the day, I don't really feel comfortable being friends with such morally shallow people like that. They're not nice people - they have to be, because God bullied them into it.

 

 

I think you've really hit on something that explains so much.  Often times the very first question I hear from a Christian when I tell them I'm an atheist, is what is there then to keep us from just going out and killing someone?  Of course there are easy replies to this, but the greater point is why they would even think that!  Are they hanging onto a belief in God because they have a horrifying sense of lacking any basic self-control or respect of others??

 

Why are they so fearful of their beliefs being threatened?  Is it because they think they'll fly out of control and start killing people?  Yikes!  Should we then then view their religious beliefs as a symptom of some deeper and rather disturbing problem?  I would think then that being an atheist should show that you are better in control because you are not needing to feel threatened to be a good person.

 

 

 

My boss is like this. And understand, I like him more than his wife, because he can at least be joked around with, but when it comes to religion and politics, he basically thinks I wouldn't hesitate to shoot him because I'm a "liberal" and an athiest. He also told my dad -- who is Lutheran, mind you, just like him -- that he's a good Christian, and that's why he's friends with him. What were they arguing over? The war in Iraq. My dad said the only thing he could do then was walk away and try not to take his head off. And because dad doesn't go to church, my boss told me flat out that he's going to hell, even though he believes in God. I nearly lost my job that day because I almost took his head off. I don't hold to their beliefs, but to tell me to my face that my dad is doomed simply for not going to a building every Sunday, yet still being in the same cult, really pissed me off. His "friend," whom he stays friends with because he's a good Christian. My fucking ass; if anyone would go to hell for sinning, he and his wife would be. Greed, sloth, lustful thoughts -- he tells me often about his times in Thailand and the whores he was boinking, and even now leaps to attention whenever an Asian woman walks in -- envy....it goes on.

[Vigile]

2) your friend's ok, and not at all angry or upset with god, that another human being not much better or worse than them, will spend eternity being tormented in hell merely because science so far has pawned Genesis' ass.

 

This speaks volumes.

 

And that's all I got to say about that.

[in my best Forest Gump voice]

[Amethyst]

My dad said the only thing he could do then was walk away and try not to take his head off. And because dad doesn't go to church, my boss told me flat out that he's going to hell, even though he believes in God. I nearly lost my job that day because I almost took his head off.

 

At that point, I'd start looking for a new job. I wouldn't quit on the spot, but I'd start looking and interview after working hours.

 

If you and your boss are that much at odds, continuing to work for him isn't a really good idea unless there are literally no other jobs in your area.

[bluewizard]

They just caught up in a belief system controlled by fear. They fear questioning god because they might become atheist and go to hell. Hell they even fear questioning hell! Then they fear other things like not being baptised the right way or missing church services or not tithing. You don't want to make god angry you know, he gets very emotional over the smallest of things. 

 

I read that some Church of Christ churches think others churches who use more then one cup for communion are going to hell for not obeying god right. Fear makes people do crazy things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of my best friends is Church of Christ but he's shy and quiet, I dont really discuss religion with anyone, but Church of Christ people believe if you're not Church of Christ you go to Hell. He's the smartest person in my class too, but even me and his Dad are friends, he's a CoC preacher. Oh, and about Baptists, thats what I used to believe, I still have to go to a Baptist church every Sunday though I'm Atheist.