Guest Zoe Grace Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 So anyway...Mr. "i'm a naval engineer noah's ark happened" also said when I told him I didn't believe in the exodus either...that archaeologists have found egyptian chariots in the red sea. Responses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Tell him archeologists have also found Jesus' bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Has anyone ever noticed, in those maps you'll find in the bible of the "Exodus", that the alleged route from Egypt to the "Promised land", goes AROUND the Red Sea? And NEVER through it? Always UP and AROUND. I've seen maps where it shows THREE "probable routes" for the "Exodus". And NONE of them went THROUGH the Red Sea, but AROUND it. Point out THIS "fact" to your "expert Xian" friends, and watch the tap dance begin. Just more "apparent contradictions" from the "inspired word of gawd". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Here's one take on these claims... January 25, 2004Pharaoh's Chariots Found in Red Sea? Every so often we hear about someone who says that they have found evidence of Egyptian chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea - presumably, this is supposed to be evidence of the army that chased the Jews at the start of their exodus out of Egypt and which was destroyed when God let the waters return to their normal state. But is any of this "evidence" genuine? World Net Daily reports: [O]thers ... are not so sure what is being viewed underwater are the remnants of the great chase and urge extreme caution regarding the unsubstantiated claims. "All kinds of people are finding coral and calling it chariot parts," says Richard Rives, president of Wyatt Archaeological Research in Tennessee. "It's most likely coral covered with coral. ... Opportunists are combining false things with the true things that are found. These people are making it up as they go to be TV stars." [Mary Nell] cites Ron's discovery of a wheel hub that he brought to the surface in the late 1970s as proof. The hub had the remains of eight spokes radiating outward and was examined by Nassif Mohammed Hassan, director of Antiquities in Cairo. Hassan declared it to be from the 18th Dynasty of ancient Egypt, explaining the eight-spoked wheel was used only during that dynasty around 1400 B.C. Curiously, no one can account for the precise whereabouts of that eight-spoked wheel today, though Hassan is on videotape stating his conclusion regarding authenticity. It sounds like people are seeing what they want to see - over a large expanse of sea, it's not surprising that they might discover a couple of places where there is a pattern that matches what they are looking for. Of course such "discoveries" will make someone a star - not just on TV, though. It will also make them a star on the evangelical Christian lecture circuit, complete with a book and numerous interviews and magazine article. These discoveries tell people what they want to hear about the historicity of the Bible, and many evangelical Christians are quite happy to spend lots of money to confirm what they already believe. Of course, they aren't acting any different from normal people here, but they have a heavy emotional investment in their religion so they have strong motivations to find "evidence," any evidence,' to confirm things for them. FROM HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 The religionists are desperate to come up with anything ANYTHING that might substantiate their faith. They will grasp at any little straw, even phony ones. This fact has been consistent ever since the second century. Pieces of "Jesus' cross" were sold, his clothing, the spear that pierced him, weeping madonnas, forged insertions into historian's writings, the shroud of Turin; the list goes on and on. Scientific analysis has shown all of these relics to be phony. Just the fact that this wheel dissapeared should tell you it's phony too. Right along with the discovery of Noah's ark. Christians make a big issue out of the fact that there is no archaeological evidence for the "Ancient tribes" of the Americas as described in the book of Mormon. They use this extensively to claim that Mormonism is a fraud. Meanwhile, the lack of archaeological evidence for the bible is never uttered. This lack of evidence speaks volumes for the non-historicity of the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 They did find them! I saw them myself! They had big neon lights that flashed and disco balls. They were completely surrounded in holy speakers playing "Jesus loves me(trance remix'05)". One of them was flying in circles dropping candy bars and jesus juice on the crowd! It was amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 They did find them! I saw them myself! They had big neon lights that flashed and disco balls. They were completely surrounded in holy speakers playing "Jesus loves me(trance remix'05)". One of them was flying in circles dropping candy bars and jesus juice on the crowd! It was amazing! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're too much, S4S!! Too funny. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthWarrior Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 "All kinds of people are finding coral and calling it chariot parts," says Richard Rives, president of Wyatt Archaeological Research in Tennessee. "It's most likely coral covered with coral. ... Opportunists are combining false things with the true things that are found. These people are making it up as they go to be TV stars." See "Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud Documentation" and "A Great Christian Scam" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Even if there was a chariot, it could have fell off a ship way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 How the hell would a chariot hold up that long underwater? It would at least sink beneath the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 The real issue with the exodus is the complete lack of other evidence that a tribe of MILLIONS wandered those deserts for 40 years. One chariot wheel does not make up for the total absence of a monster trash trail (the sheep parts alone would be amazing) that would be left behind by a gang that big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shy1680 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Zoe, like other claims of finding Bible archaological evidence, somehow the wagon wheels that were excavated have disappeared along with any tests done on them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here is a Christian answer to that one. Well ya see God gets rid of any physical evidence to prove the bible to be 100% true because God wants you to be totally believing only in him on faith, and nothing more. Because if you need evidence, then you were never believing in God to begin with. God doesnt want you to believe in him if you dont do it from your heart. I have been learning a lot on christianforums.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcissist Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 News flash: Chariots found at bottom of Red Sea. Right next to couple of old shopping trolleys and the remains of a Datsun 120Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 News flash: Chariots found at bottom of Red Sea. Right next to couple of old shopping trolleys and the remains of a Datsun 120Y <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow! The Egyptians had a datsun and shopping carts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Wow! The Egyptians had a datsun and shopping carts? No no noooo...that was the remains of the the Red Sea Crossing II and III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Son of Belial Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I heard that they didn't actually go through the "Red Sea" but through the "Sea of Reeds"- a huge plain filled with really high reeds. The claim is that the word "reed" was misspelled as "red" in Hebrew. Now such a mistake makes sense to unintelligent English speakers, who say "duh, oh look red and reed are similar". But does it make sense in Hebrew. Are the words for red and reed really that close in Hebrew. Hebrew word for reeds= qaneh Hebrew word for red= 'adom or 'adam I'd have to look at the hebrew lettering, but I am pretty sure from their pronunciation, that they are not similar in spelling in the hebrew letters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not sure about that, but I will say that I have a few books that translate it that way. I have a Catholic Bible with a footnote that says something like "Probably was the Sea of Reeds and not the Red Sea." A Biblical encyclopedia I have also states it was the Sea of Reeds. Some of the newer translations - I think the New Jerusalem Bible is one - directly translates "Sea of Reeds" and not "Red Sea" in the scripture, as opposed to being a footnote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Son of Belial Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Here is a Christian answer to that one. Well ya see God gets rid of any physical evidence to prove the bible to be 100% true because God wants you to be totally believing only in him on faith, and nothing more. Because if you need evidence, then you were never believing in God to begin with. God doesnt want you to believe in him if you dont do it from your heart. I have been learning a lot on christianforums.com <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but he was nice enough to let some believers find them before he destroyed the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shy1680 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Yeah, but he was nice enough to let some believers find them before he destroyed the evidence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh how could I forget to include the whole "believers only" club part. God only lets the believers find certain items to show his believers he love them and has remembered them. I was recently was told God only allowes believers to see miracles because its a waste on non-believers, so basically its the same thing with his evidence. It would be a waste to let us non-believers get a chance to see the evidence since we dont believe its real to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Son of Belial Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Oh how could I forget to include the whole "believers only" club part. God only lets the believers find certain items to show his believers he love them and has remembered them. I was recently was told God only allowes believers to see miracles because its a waste on non-believers, so basically its the same thing with his evidence. It would be a waste to let us non-believers get a chance to see the evidence since we dont believe its real to start with. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What, are you trying to say that doesn't make sense or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Tell him archeologists have also found Jesus' bones. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HAHAHA!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Alls I know is... I read the debate between Poonis and Amanda tonight, and all of the peanut gallery. I read about can a Christian explain God without using a logical fallacy. I read about plastic model car kits (OK, that was on another site). I read about free will, Calvinists, and trees; a lot about trees. My conclusions? Well, please don't boot me. I'm on my last whiskey, and I just have the need to say... 1) Red Sea, Schmed Sea... it all goes back to the first few chapters of Genesis. Prove that, and you prove it all. Don't, and you won't. 2) If there is a God, then He will answer my prayer... that Zoe Grace and Madame M will develop a fetish for a fat old unemployed bitter man in a small town and agree to a three way...using only our brains! 3) I'm watching 'Ape to Man', and I'm not sure that I'm in favor of evolution. I mean, I still like bananas, but now I can't toss one off in public. This is progress?? Excuse me, but I'm going to go pass out now. Thank you all for being here on this website. Duder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Son of Belial Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 2) If there is a God, then He will answer my prayer... that Zoe Grace and Madame M will develop a fetish for a fat old unemployed bitter man in a small town and agree to a three way...using only our brains! But you have to truly BELIEVE first. 3) I'm watching 'Ape to Man', and I'm not sure that I'm in favor of evolution. I mean, I still like bananas, but now I can't toss one off in public. This is progress??Duder <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A planet where apes evolved from men?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I am surprised that as august a group, as meets here, can even think of this “chariot wheel” business being a partial truth. What you are referring to is a much warmed-over report of an archaeological hoax perpetrated by the Christ Cultist charlatan Ron Wyatt. This is the man that discovered the wheel from Pharaoh’s chariot in the Red Sea, that discovered Noah’s Ark, that discovered Noah’s grave, and discovered a pictograph of eight people confronting a huge wave topped by a ship of some type. Not a single one of his claims stands up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny and there is no physical evidence. Stop and think, a wheel would not last long enough submerged in the warm waters of the Red Sea (ship worms, etc) for coral to form around it. He was a scam artist and nothing more. One of his sons admitted that the chariot wheel was planted by Wyatt himself and Wyatt failed a lie detector test when questioned about that and other claims (Not that it would have meant a damn thing anyway. There wasn't any exodus or Red Sea crossing in the first place). The majority of his debunkers are Biblical literalists who would be only too happy to discover evidence that the Bible tales are true but Wyatt was such a rank fraud and his claims so transparently bogus that many Christian websites feel the need to warn people away from Wyatt before they get swindled into wasting money on his books and videos. The sale of books and videos alone shows what Ron Wyatt was all about, and even today long after his death, his organization is still hyping his “discoveries” and making these books and videos available to the true believers. I guess if you are gullible enough to swallow the illogic of the Christ Cult, you are gullible enough to believe this tripe. Here is a website that will help clear up this mess: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I've actually heard preachers "debunk" the "Reed Sea myth" by saying, "If God drown all those chariots in the Reed Sea, that's an even bigger miracle because the Reed Sea is only a few inches deep. Praise GAWD!" As far as the original words go: Red Strong's Number: 05488 Browse Lexicon Original Word Word Origin @wo probably of Egyptian origin Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Cuwph TWOT - 1479 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech soof Noun Masculine Definition reed, rush, water plant rushes sea of rushes of Red Sea of arms of Red Sea of Gulf of Suez of sea from straits to Gulf of Akaba Reed Strong's Number: 07070 Browse Lexicon Original Word Word Origin hnq from (07069) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Qaneh TWOT - 2040a Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech kaw-neh' Noun Masculine Definition reed, stalk, bone, balances stalk water-plant, reed calamus (aromatic reed) derived meanings measuring-rod reed (as unit of measure - 6 cubits) beam (of scales - for scales themselves) shaft (of lampstand) branches (of lampstand) shoulder-joint The two original words in Hebrew (shown in bold, above) are not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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