chefranden Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 There are two main reasons I **prefer*** to keep my faith... 1. MY GIRLFRIEND! Believe me, I love her very much ... She believes in Jesus, loves him, spends time in prayer and won't marry me If I'm not Christian. 2. If there's no God, then there's no afterlife... It's scary to me. But I have reached the point I can't follow contradictive teachings... PS: I edit the post to add my reason number 3: 3. "WHAT IF" argument. What if I am wrong and ... 1. One thing that the bible says is true. Don't be unequally yoked. You are asking for a lot of misery if you pursue the relationship with this woman. And it won't be just misery for you. It will be misery for her and for any children you may have. The sad thing is that you likely won't be able to see this until it happens. You aren't being fair to her if you continue to pretend. You are in for a bit of pain which ever way you go here. 2. If you can remember what you were doing on the day your mother was born, you will know what it is like after you die. I doubt if you were scared on that day. 3. What if Allah is God? Once you come down in favor of one God there are thousands of others you are pissing off. What if is the same argument that addicted gamblers use to make the next bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emme Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi Notscared! Just wanted to offer my sympathies for what you're going through. I hope you figure out what you want and how you want to live your life. *hugs* and BOOOOOO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Should we trust the Bible as a book that obviously teaches us good things: The key word in your statement is "trust." That is a pretty BIG word. I am sure that the majority of what was in Jim Jones mix was kool-aid, but it was the other bit that killed everyone. The Bible has some good lines in it. Certainly. But the rest does more than offset any good that is in it (in my opinion). Wow, I'm really seeing how the whole problem behind all of this for most everyone stems from the misguided notion of "authority". What if the Bible is not a book of authority? Does that change how it's treated, how it's approached? What if you take away the mindset created by the Protestant church of 'sola scriptura'? When one says it's "wrong", that is buying into their notion of it being "right". What if it's their notion, their belief that's "wrong"? Then you are left with a book that is something from some place that is not the idea that they imposed upon it, this notion of it being authoritative. What it is in reality is a collection of historical artifacts telling the story of people defining themselves in their social contexts using the language of mythical symbols. And why it can be shaped and molded into anything, such as the Protestant's view of Sola Scriptura to challenge the authority of the Catholic Church, or a suicide cult using it to support their notions, or a social/political conservative using it to support their activities and social identity, or the liberal using it to make it fit current social contexts, is precisely because it's creation and construction and symbols are all functioning on the level of myth in human society. So understood like this, it's not a question of "trust". It's a question of context. What should be said is "I shouldn't read it as authoritative". (now as to its relevance and value overall to our current culture, that's another long discussion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Gary Amirault, the Universalist, told me that when he received a copy of the Jewish bible he was surprised to see how many moments in the text are marked as "unclear, the meaning of the words is unknown". I'm really amazed that people around me trust translations of the bible (i.e. KJV) and take them literally. Universalism still makes sense for me when it comes to salvation, but I don't see how it explains the problem of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 SCE, another thing about Judaism v Christianity is that Jews do not recognize Jesus to fit in their prophesies, neither do they interpret the Old Testament scriptures the same was as Christians. How can it even be the same God? YHWH v Jesus, duke it out, who got it right? The Christians of course then claim that the Holy Spirit is the key to understand the Bible, which means, whatever the "True Christian" (whatever that is) feels a verse should be interpreted a certain way (which usually matches their own personal interests and previous beliefs) it is supposed to be from God. While old Jewish theologians who study history, their own traditions and religion, and can apply it to their culture, basically is lost. It's like saying any common German citizen understand America's constitution better because they have the magical bratwurst telling them the truth, while the supreme court judges have no clue, even though they have studied law, philosophy, history, and the constitution their whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Technically this is correct. For example, I don't see how "Emmanuel=Jesus" fits into the Old Testament. When I read the first chapters Issaiah I had the feeling that the prophesy has a very different meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Technically this is correct. For example, I don't see how "Emmanuel=Jesus" fits into the Old Testament. When I read the first chapters Issaiah I had the feeling that the prophesy has a very different meaning. I wrote an article on this. It is long (as I tend to be long winded). But if you are interested, here is the direct link: http://scrutinizingscripture.blogspot.com/...that-tells.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QOP1967 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hello. Do you remember me? I'm one of the Universalists who wrote here long ago. You asked me a lot of questions. I failed to answer them. I continued to follow my religion. But what happened after that? I'll tell you. The family of my girlfriend proved to be not the righteous family I knew before. The sister of my girlfriend left her parents and now she lives without marriage with a boy who's going to be a pastor one day. And by the way, he's the most hypocritical person I've ever seen. I left the church and I haven't been there for months. The pastor of the church was a JERK, an ASSHOLE. I have seen bad and cruel people even before. But he's the baddest person I've ever met in my short life. I spoke too much about things I didn't like in church. And he threatened me in a horrible way. I'm having questions about the faith more than ever. While I still believe in Universal reconciliation, I think I'm no longer the Christian I used to be. Do I believe in God? Well... still yes. Do I love him? If I have to be brutally honest, NO! Why? Because I don't see how my religion explains the problem of evil. Even if Universalism is true, I fail to see why God chooses people for destruction. I fail to see why God allows so much suffering. What's the purpose of suffering? And most importantly, I don't pray at all. That's it. I just wanted to drop you a message. I'm in the same predicament as you, the only difference is that I've never been 100% convinced of universalism, I tended more towards annihilation, in my quest for answers I turned to christian forums (which has led to yet more confusion and even more questions), nothing could have prepared me for what I've seen in the last year or so on these forums, total hypocrisy, backstabbing, and spewing venomous hatred not only to athiests and agnostics, but also to their own fellow christians that don't happen to think exactly like themselves (I'm sure many on here have first hand experience of what I'm talking about, and perhaps found themselves in the same predicament as myself, and not-scarevangelist as a result) Not Scare - you were only a half-way xian even then. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. It looks like you are starting to wake up and come to your senses. The Bible may have some good things, but they are outweighed by the bad. When I saw your post, I realized I could no longer deny the inevitable, I had to be honest and admit that I wasn't a xtian (at least not technically), I've had to change my status on forums I joined as a christian to non-christian, if I join any xtian forum now I join as a non-xtian, it's been very painful for me to come to this admission, I never ever thought it could ever happen to me, I may make a post sometime of how I ended up in the predicament I now find myself in, when it's a lot less painful than it is right now My advice to christians (if they want to remain faithful) is not to start asking too many questions, because when you do that's when the trouble really starts, especially when the answers you get, make absolutely no sense whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 QOP1967, That's what got me deconverted-- looking for answers to "difficult" questions. For years I knew of bible errors and contradictions, and found many on my own, but I could mentally stash them away without danger to my faith. I just knew the basics were still true. I was a christian for over 30 years, but Grant Jeffries and his wild bullshit claims got me to investigate, which led to some incredible realizations. For fun reading check out the link in my sig, as well as the Religious Tolerance website. You say it's been painful, but it can be quite the opposite once you realize you can look into the Christian fishbowl from the outside. Your perspective is so impaired while you're in there... Note to Not_Scarevangelist; Better test the gf's convictions. Mine was a Christian, and part of the reason she picked me was because I was too. But I deconverted BEFORE we got married!! She was pretty much tired of all the stupid, demanding, petty, controlling, cliquish and backstabbing Christians after a while anyway. However, if your girlfriend is too young and entrenched, you are in for an uphill battle to put it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Not Scare - you were only a half-way xian even then. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. It looks like you are starting to wake up and come to your senses. The Bible may have some good things, but they are outweighed by the bad. And from the position of being a freethinker we can actually do the right thing by the bible - keep the good things and throw out the bad and become better people for it. Not Scare, I would urge you to follow after truth and don't base your life decisions on fear. I don't see how that can add quality to your life by behaving in a fear-based manner. You may have to endure some stress, but I think in the long run you will be better off. Just my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Sounding a little harsh, but that girl would probably have left him for not being a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I feel sorry for you all. Seeing how much this cult destroys peoples' lives yet never having actually had my own life destroyed by it (or even influenced by it for the most part...only through those infected with it) makes me really want to take action against it. I have yet to see what 'good' religion does that isn't a) a pointless feel-good delusion, and b ) vastly outdone by the extreme bad it does. It's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 There are two main reasons I **prefer*** to keep my faith... 1. MY GIRLFRIEND! Believe me, I love her very much ... She believes in Jesus, loves him, spends time in prayer and won't marry me If I'm not Christian. 2. If there's no God, then there's no afterlife... It's scary to me. But I have reached the point I can't follow contradictive teachings... PS: I edit the post to add my reason number 3: 3. "WHAT IF" argument. What if I am wrong and ... I, too, would like to offer some advise on these points. 1. If you're dishonest with her now, the relationship will probably not be a good one. If she doesn't love you for who you are, then the relationship is destined to end in failure. 2. Did not existing bother you before you were born? Consider this Buddhist quote: "Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely." 3. So far, your decision making process is based on fear. Fear of losing your girlfriend. Fear of death. Now it's fear of being wrong. Let's suppose you are wrong. Would you want to spend an eternity with an entity that would punish people for not believing in him based on the word of another human being? That's pretty messed up. Even if I am wrong, I know I'm making the right choice because I wouldn't want to spend five minutes with such a being; let alone forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hi, folks! After a long absence, I'm back. I couldn't believe that my old thread is still alive (probably due to forum necromancy), but I'm very happy you're still interested in how I feel. I'm still with this girl. But at the same time I still don't go to church. I still don't pray. I still don't feel need to pray. I have some faith, but this is no longer the faith of Christian fundies. My (probably slim) faith could probably be described as agnosticism. Looks like she accepts the fact I don't go to church. I've told her multiple times I don't need church. She doesn't try to convince me anymore. But she's with me. Looks like she loves me deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 ...But she's with me. Looks like she loves me deeply. Good for you, there's nothing better than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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