Good books on Philosophy

[highvoltage]

Ok, so most of my studies in philosophy up until this point have been within the bubble of xtianity. Maybe the more appropriate term would be "apologetics". I don't know if that's even real philosophy. Anyway, I'm trying to expand my horizons by reading secular philosophy. The question now is, "Where do I start?"

 

I went to the bookstore yesterday and bought Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Daybreak by Nietzsche.

 

I heard that both of these are pretty good works, so I figured I would just start there. I thought I'd ask you guys if you knew of some good works that I should read.

 

Also I bought The Five Gospels. This is one of the works of the Jesus Seminar. I'm interested in the history of the church and how it really got started. You guys know any good books in this area?

 

Thanks,

highvoltage

[Amethyst]

Well, I finished the "Star Wars & Philosophy" book. You know, of that same series that has "Harry Potter & Philosophy" & "Buffy the Vampire Slayer & Philosophy"? It's a bit on the light side, but I think it's a decent book.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I've got several recommendations in both categories, but I'm on my way out the door for dinner and a play. I'll provide a list tomorrow sometime.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi, High Voltage. It's great to have you join us.

 

One idea is to start with some works of Plato, because he shows lots of arguments being conducted by Socrates, he lays out many of the questions that have come up in philosophy ever since, and he is often entertaining, even funny. If you get the Hackett press volume of the collected dialogues, you could start with stuff like the Apology, Laches, Euthydemus (very amusing, lots of fallacies, great fun), and just poke around.

I think one can learn many of the ways of thinking about an argument from philosophy written in dialogue form. Plus, there's the engagement with the characters of Socrates and others.

 

I think it's in general good to read philosophers directly, esp. in their own language, when possible.

 

Bertrand Russel's The Problems of Philosophy is very useful. Lots in there about ways of thinking and constructing an argument. Also My Philosophical Development, a book Russel wrote near the end of his life.

 

A good guy to start with in political philosophy is John Locke, e.g. his Second Treatise of Government. The Federalist papers are quite good, I think - Hamilton and Madison were serious political thinkers. (I've never read Marx so can't comment on him.)

 

Lots of talk goes on about creationism and assorted crap. Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery is excellent about what makes a scientific theory and how scientific theories work.

 

Three good starter books for general knowledge about philosophy:

Bryan Magee, Confessions of a Philosopher (his intellectual autobiography with lots about different philosophers). Magee's The Great Philosophers talks about the same thinkers without Magee's life thrown in.

Jostein Gaarder wrote Sophie's World, which is a novelistic survey of the great philosophers.

 

Happy exploring!

[Samurai Tailor]

For thorough, occasionally impenetrable, foundational works on logic, I recommend something by Willard Quine or AJ Ayer.

[qadeshet]

There are many great web sites which will help to get you started.

 

The Secular Web

Darrell W Conder

Jesus Never Existed

Christianity Revealed

Astrotheology

Christ Myth

[RedPillAddict]

My favorite book so far:

 

Taking the Red Pill: Science, Philosophy and Religion in The Matrix

 

I loved it. Many different theories. Its not just about the movie, "the matrix", it is full of great info.

[Kuroikaze]

Ok, so most of my studies in philosophy up until this point have been within the bubble of xtianity. Maybe the more appropriate term would be "apologetics". I don't know if that's even real philosophy.  Anyway, I'm trying to expand my horizons by reading secular philosophy. The question now is, "Where do I start?"

 

I went to the bookstore yesterday and bought Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Daybreak by Nietzsche.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nietzsche has some good stuff to say, but is kinda hard to read, he wasn't very organized in his writings, at least he wasn't in "beyond good and evil" half the time you have to read what he wrote 2 or 3 times to understand what he said.

 

Actually, when your starting out in philosophy i recoment starting with some of the older books, I know some times that can be boring, but most of the newer philosophers will reference the older ones, even if its just to contradict them.

 

I would say for western philosophy start with the Republic, by Plato. Kant is also a good read, even though i disagree with a lot of what he says.

 

Kierkegaard is someone you should read for sure, as he was one of the major founders of existentialist thought. Even though he was a christian, he wasn't even close to being a fundy, and he actually has some usefull things to say. He wrote several things blasting Hiegel (sp?) who tried to use philosophy to prove Gods existance.

 

If your interisted at all in eastern philosophy then i recomend the Tao te Ching, any of Confucius' writings and the Art of War by Sun Tzu. All very old books of couse they are very usefull to read.

 

Anyway, I recomend you start with older works and work up to newer ones, knowledge tends to be cumulative, this is true even in philosophy. If you don't understand the earlier philosophers you will have trouble understanding what the newer ones are tying to do. Many philosophers will tend to reference older works, show how those works were incorrect, then offer a new solution.

[MrSpooky]

Atheism: The Case Against God by George H Smith.

 

I cannot recommend it enough.

[Guest Red Snyper]

"The Mind of the Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen is a good read that addresses the issue of the Bible being a mind control tool. Sometimes Cohen's words get dry but he comes to some interesting conclusions. I related to 95% of his book. If you felt trapped as a fundy Christian this book will help you break the chains and let you know that you are not alone in what you are dealing with.

 

Also, Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason". It is a good resource to help you establish your life by using modern thought and it examines inconsistencies in the Bible. It's words are still relevant for today, 210 years later. And devour all of the letters and writings of Thomas Jefferson.

 

RS

[highvoltage]

Wow, thanks guys! I've got a lot of learning to do, but I aim to live and learn to the fullest, and this will help me tremendously.

[godlessgrrl]

I second (third? fourth?) the motion to read anything by Plato, especially the stuff about Socrates. In fact the Greeks are a good place to start, since, well... they started it.

 

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" is interesting.

 

Simone de Beauvoir, Thomas More, and Ben Franklin all have some great things to say. John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty" is 'nuther good'n.

 

Oh yeah - and "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", while not a philosophical tome in itself, definitely provokes thought of a philosophical nature (or can, anyway). Anything by Douglas Adams does.

 

Good luck.

[Eudaimonist]

For nontheistic approaches to ethics, I recommend:

 

Personal Destinies: A Philosophy of Ethical Individualism, by David Norton

 

Viable Values: A Study of Life as the Root and Reward of Morality, by Tara Smith

[spamandham]

Well, I always recommend Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World". It is a book of philosophy whether people like to call it that or not, and it is a very easy read. I love Russell, but he can be a bit long winded, as can Nietzsche. I have tried on occasions to make it through The Republic, but I just can't stay awake reading it. I'm also basically pretty lazy.

[Brother Jeff]

I went to the bookstore yesterday and bought Thus Spoke Zarathustra

This is supposed to be one of the great works of Western Philosophy, I believe. I sat down with this book in the great used bookstore (TitleWaves) we have here in Anchorage a while back, and I found it to be extremely BORING. But, I'd be interested to know what you think of it after you've had a chance to read some of it. Maybe philosophy just isn't my thing...

[spamandham]

If you want to save a few bucks, much of Nietzsche's work is translated and free online. http://www.luminary.us/nz/zarathustra.html

[Vigile]

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

 

I love that book. It's in my top 10 to be sure. I would also recommend 100 Years of Solitude by Marquez. It's not strictly philosophy, but is a great book for understanding the flow of life and various personal approaches to it. Not to mention that it's a great read.

[Kryten]

I would add this to your list: Sense And Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism by Richard Carrier. I started it but have been severely sidetracked-- but I am looking forward to finishing it. So far it's very good. It examines and exposes Christianity to a degree.

[Vigile]

I found it to be extremely BORING.

 

Or you just might find it boring in its original form like I do. I love it in its applied form. Check out Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and then decide.

[highvoltage]

I'll definitely look into Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. After reading your posts, I looked into some reviews of the book and it does seem quite interesting. And yes, Brother Jeff, Thus Spoke Zarathustra so far is pretty boring. I've only just started it, but I'm also working on a few other works, and that one definitely got put on the back burner. I really think I'm going to read On the Geneology of Morals first anyway. Nietzsche was brilliant, but he's a hard read.

 

So I'm working on The Republic per the recommendations I've recieved here, which is excellent so far, I must say. Why I'm Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell, which is also very good. It's a collection of some of his essays, and I recommend it highly for a quick (and very readable) introduction and defense of a naturalistic worldview and morals. I've only read a third of it so far, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

 

I also read The Communist Manifesto by Marx, which was interesting. One would have to understand the political environment in which it was written in order to fully appreciate it. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but I think it's most certainly worth a read by anyone contemplating socialism or communism as a political philosophy. It's also very short, so it is only a days read.

 

And Brother Jeff: I saw on another thread that you've read some of the work by the Jesus Seminar. I too am working on some of their research. I'm reading through The Five Gospels, which I find to be a very nice analysis of what Jesus really said (assuming he really existed, of course). What have you read from them?

 

Anyway, I've been quite busy lately and can't get on the forums very often. I usually just have time to read the threads but don't have much time to contribute. I'm still around, though.

[Vigile]

I also read The Communist Manifesto by Marx, which was interesting. One would have to understand the political environment in which it was written in order to fully appreciate it. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but I think it's most certainly worth a read by anyone contemplating socialism or communism as a political philosophy. It's also very short, so it is only a days read.

 

You also need to read Marx in the context of Hegel's influence. Hegel was kind of nutty if you ask me, but it does give you perspective.

[Emperor Norton II]

Aristotle's The Nichomachean Ethic is THE definitive work on ethics and morality. Currently, aretaic ethics are going through something of a Rennaisance. Never a better time to get interested.

[SerpentIntheMidst]

God's Debris: A Thought Experiment by Scott Adams