Is Satan Really Such a Bad Guy? LOL

[vargo]

According to Christianity, Satan is the epitome and embodiment of all evil things, described as "the father of all lies" in the Catholic Church's Catechism (paragraph 391). It is his works that tempt humans into doing bad deeds. If something evil occurs, we can be assured that Satan had something to do with it.

 

The History of Satan

 

According to Catholicism, Satan only exists because God allows him to (The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 395). This raises some serious issues about how righteous God can be if he allows evil to exist, but I digress. Satan, as the story goes, began as the angel Lucifer, who outrightly rejected God and rebelled against him. God cast Lucifer and those who followed him into Hell, a place of eternal torture and despair, where God was not present.

 

Like any good propoganda machine, Christian authorities have made sure to limit the disenimation of information on the enemy (Satan) to what they want the public to know. For example, we are never told why Satan rebelled against God. We're never given his side of the story. Were Satan's reasons for rejecting God and attempting to overthrow him legitimate? From where I'm standing, they could certainly be considered valid if the authorities see fit to hide them from the general public.

 

For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the book that outlines Catholic beliefs in detail, has barely half a column in its index devoted to Satan and information on him, where as Jesus Christ has a full 6 pages! Sound like a propoganda machine to you, yet?

 

Christian authorities have made some big mistakes with their anti-Satan propoganda machine, however. Since there is so little information available about Satan, there is no record of anything he's done or any way to connect events to him. Christians simply and lazily accredit evil occurences to Satan. A good example are the events of September 11. Within weeks, a doctored picture was floating around the internet showing Satan's face in the clouds of smoke and debris eminating from the two towers, thus unfairly making Satan out to be responsible for these tragedies.

 

Satan vs. God

 

The only evidence we have to conclude Satan's utter evil is God's word, and frankly, God's word isn't worth too much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Straight after giving Moses the first set of Ten Commandments (which included "Thou shalt not kill"), he let Moses go ahead and order the Levites to go on a mass-murdering rampages, which they did, but only after he talked God out of killing all the people! According to 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12, God will send a strong illusion to people so that they will believe lies, so he can condemn everyone to Hell. After giving Moses the Ten Commandments, God orchestrated a litany of atrocities through isoltated commandments that are simply too great in number to list here. I suggest checking out the The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see for yourself, specifically this section. These events are detailed in Exodus 32. In 2 Chronicles 18:22, God lies to prophets. Why should anyone take his word at face value if he has no problem with lying to us for no reason other than to have an excuse to condemn us to Hell?

 

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be? Let's find out...

 

God

 

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.

•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.

•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.

•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)

•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)

•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)

•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)

•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.

•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)

•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)

•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)

•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)

•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)

 

Satan

 

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

 

 

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catoring to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

 

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with. The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God.

[qadeshet]

If Satan really rebelled against the cruel and murderous Judeo-Christian war god, then doesn't that make him the real hero of the story? His is an example for all of us.

[Pariah]

Interesting topic. Even as a Christian I had similiar thoughts; even if we assume that the Bible was God's word how do we know that God is not really a bad guy, manipulating us through the Bible to use us as pawns in his battle against another equally powerful deity (Satan)? Afterall, the only reason we would have to trust God's word would be that he said he was trustworthy.

[dogmatically_challenged]

If Satan really rebelled against the cruel and murderous Judeo-Christian war god, then doesn't that make him the real hero of the story?  His is an example for all of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hail Satan! hehe.

[Dio]

Good post, and welcome to the site, vargo. Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name...

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Read Anne Rice's Memnoch The Devil. I guarantee, even though she makes the ending a brain-twisting due to the fact she is a Catholic, you'll be laughing at the sheer truth of it.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I can definately see what you mean. I'm curious what you think about Satan's failed tempatation of Christ in the New Testiment.

[Brutal Brian]

He got the ultimate screwjob in my opinion. He acted Human and look at the thanks he got. But that fucker Gabriel got off. Gabriel is an asshole.

 

Plus, Satan's buddies here on earth make some damn good music.

Heavy fucking Metal!!!

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

He got the ultimate screwjob in my opinion. He acted Human and look at the thanks he got. But that fucker Gabriel got off. Gabriel is an asshole.

 

Plus, Satan's buddies here on earth make some damn good music.

Heavy fucking Metal!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Don't you know all the good bands are aligned with Satan/"-Bart Simpson

 

I just felt that it fit.

[necrosmith]

Awesome post.

 

I'd just finished bringing this point up last week. Nice to see some thoughts on it from a like mind.

[Guest Dragonblade]

It's good to see after all this time the truth is finally coming out about Jehovah. Anyone with an iota of intellect knows there's always two sides to every coin. Satan is the scapegoat for all of God's mistakes and blunders. And as you recall from the Old Testament, God is really big on making the innocent suffer for the crimes of the guilty.

 

I think it sad that God has such an incalculable ego that even tho he was surrounded by numberless heavenly host he had to create a new species to give him glory and worship him. Talk about a glory junkie!

 

I, too, have often wondered what was the sales pitch Lucifer used to persuade one-third of the angels to open their eyes and follow him. Afterall, IF heaven is such a wonderful place what could be so bad that many individuals wanted a change?

 

Another thought here: God is really just an evil scientist; think of the earth as a giant terrarium. And he has promised to one day set the thing on fire.

 

Yes, we really are little more than pawns in a cosmic board game.

 

Hail Satan

[SilentLoner]

Cool post.

 

Im tempted to print that out and send a copy to my old religion teacher.

[Guest Thegoodbook]

Entire post quoted

Yes, Satan gave us the capacity to tell right from wrong. Without God though, that wouldnt matter, because we wouldnt be here in the first place! God created us, Satan added to us, without God creating us, Satan's works are useless. Therefore you might think Satan is less evil, but the only reason you are here right now and have been typing on this message board is because of God, period!

[Guest queen annie]

Yes, Satan gave us the capacity to tell right from wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you figure Satan gives us the capacity to tell 'right from 'wrong?' 'Satan' means accuser--and is the 'adversary'--the opposition which present to the human mind the opportunity to choose this or that as either 'right' or 'wrong' -- some call 'good' or 'evil'. And if the choice made is not one that effects positive effect on the energy of the situation and the people involved, but rather is the one that promotes the aims and desires of the individual above all other things, regardless of how they affect the whole, then it's not that Satan did that 'evil' (which is basically self-orientation in its most oblivious form)--its only that the fork in the road was pointed out by him.

Not once in the bible does the devil twist anyone's arm. No where in the bible does it say that God blames man's evils on the devil. Man does evil and God does evil in the bible. When man does evil it is for

furthering their own causes, ideas, and interests--and it causes damage to others because it is done in blindness and greed of some sort or another. It is done in vain, it is empty, and as such, it is the true 'evil' in the world. No other evil is truly evil, only man's own devices from the delusion of separateness which doesn't allow empathy or compassion for other people. Pride is a sort of greed when it acts selfishly. When God does 'evil' it is for a good reason, although 99% of us never reach that realization, mainly because the tendency to blame every 'bad' thing on Satan by christians makes them blind to the true role of Satan and maligns God true intentions to those who are not christians.

 

Therefore you might think Satan is less evil, but the only reason you are here right now and have been typing on this message board is because of God, period!

Not necessarily true. God made everyone, but so far He hasn't made everyone's mind up for them. We're still choosing whether we listen to the serpent in the tree or to the One who put that serpent there.

God put the serpent in that tree--just as He put Adam in the garden, so also He put the devil in there, too. Did Adam listen to Eve because of God? Or because of Satan? Or did he do it of his own power to make a decision either way?

Many may tell themselves they are here on this particular board 'because of God' or 'doing God's work'--but that's hard to believe, since I've never heard of God rubbing salt on a wound--whether He wounded or man wounded. If God wounds, He restores. If man wounds, man then kicks and plummels the victim until something makes him stop. Satan has not the power to wound us--only to tempt us into causing ills for each other.

So many are here from Satan's urgings, too--and a lot of that urging comes straight out of the mouth of salaried Sunday-preachers who preach hell and conversion in the name of God. Yet the devil follows God's instructions better than those who follow the instructions of the preachers in the pulpits. Not the law, necessarily, but God's instructions to the devil, himself, are carried out to the letter.

No one can overcome the selfish ways of the human heart if they never acknowledge that within all of us, there is both good and bad--both God and Satan. You can't 'kick' the devil out of your heart until you realize he's been there all along. And the evidence presented by the 'witness' of so many who feel this is not the case, yet stir up strife, discord, and cause God to be misrepresented as a contradictory, petty, and short-sighted less-than-wise Creator (who would actually be cruel enough to command us to love all, then take most of the 'all' and throw them in the dungeon forever) proves what I say. There's a lot of devilish hearts who truly believe they are godly and should be regarded as worthy examples and witnesses.

The 'wisdom' of christendom's god is actually human wisdom, same as always, driven by blindness and greed, rooted in fear and insecurity. The predominant disillusionment in God, Himself is directly brought about the false witness made by millions in His name, which means His name is being profaned by those who claim to confess it.

Time will tell us all.

[Guest Thegoodbook]

According to Christianity, Satan is the epitome and embodiment of all evil things, described as "the father of all lies" in the Catholic Church's Catechism (paragraph 391). It is his works that tempt humans into doing bad deeds. If something evil occurs, we can be assured that Satan had something to do with it.

 

The History of Satan

 

According to Catholicism, Satan only exists because God allows him to (The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 395). This raises some serious issues about how righteous God can be if he allows evil to exist, but I digress. Satan, as the story goes, began as the angel Lucifer, who outrightly rejected God and rebelled against him. God cast Lucifer and those who followed him into Hell, a place of eternal torture and despair, where God was not present.

 

Like any good propoganda machine, Christian authorities have made sure to limit the disenimation of information on the enemy (Satan) to what they want the public to know. For example, we are never told why Satan rebelled against God. We're never given his side of the story. Were Satan's reasons for rejecting God and attempting to overthrow him legitimate? From where I'm standing, they could certainly be considered valid if the authorities see fit to hide them from the general public.

 

For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the book that outlines Catholic beliefs in detail, has barely half a column in its index devoted to Satan and information on him, where as Jesus Christ has a full 6 pages! Sound like a propoganda machine to you, yet?

 

Christian authorities have made some big mistakes with their anti-Satan propoganda machine, however. Since there is so little information available about Satan, there is no record of anything he's done or any way to connect events to him. Christians simply and lazily accredit evil occurences to Satan. A good example are the events of September 11. Within weeks, a doctored picture was floating around the internet showing Satan's face in the clouds of smoke and debris eminating from the two towers, thus unfairly making Satan out to be responsible for these tragedies.

 

Satan vs. God

 

The only evidence we have to conclude Satan's utter evil is God's word, and frankly, God's word isn't worth too much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Straight after giving Moses the first set of Ten Commandments (which included "Thou shalt not kill"), he let Moses go ahead and order the Levites to go on a mass-murdering rampages, which they did, but only after he talked God out of killing all the people! According to 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12, God will send a strong illusion to people so that they will believe lies, so he can condemn everyone to Hell. After giving Moses the Ten Commandments, God orchestrated a litany of atrocities through isoltated commandments that are simply too great in number to list here. I suggest checking out the The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see for yourself, specifically this section. These events are detailed in Exodus 32. In 2 Chronicles 18:22, God lies to prophets. Why should anyone take his word at face value if he has no problem with lying to us for no reason other than to have an excuse to condemn us to Hell?

 

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be? Let's find out...

 

God

 

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.

•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.

•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.

•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)

•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)

•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)

•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)

•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.

•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)

•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)

•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)

•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)

•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)

 

Satan

 

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

 

 

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catoring to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

 

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with. The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I feel that a lot of the verses you have pulled out are all taken out of context. Also how about the pretext of fallen man. God gave Adam and Eve everything they could have ever wanted, but they gave in to temptation from the devil and sinned. God says that the wages of sin is death. God is a holy, perfect, righteous, justful, glad, merciful, and graceful God. How could you expect man to reach God without a sacrifice, which has to be blood. God didn't destroy cities or people without giving them a chance to change. They were given several warnings. Don't take the bible out of context and point out hate which doesn't actually exist. God so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Does that sound like a God who hates people? I don't think so. God loved us so much that he came down to earth and lived a sinless life, to then be put on a cross to die for all of our transgressions. Can you ignore that love, grace, and mercy. The bible even says that God rejoices over us. I don't expect to change your mind in this forum, but I will pray that God will place people in your life and circumstances in your life where you have no choice but to recognize the love and grace of God. He has never left you. He still loves you.

Nevertheless, I would suggest you study the bible in its context and not just pull out passages that fit your stance. The Old Testament tells of the glory to come in the New Testament. Furthermore, You say that the bible was written by falliable men, but I beg to differ. The bible was written in less time than the compolation of works from Socrates, however that is taken as truth and at face value. The bible was transcribed more carefully and with more rules than any other historical document ever.

 

Do your homework.

[MQTA]

WOW! All those bumper stickers in one long run on paragraph

[seeker]

I feel that a lot of the verses you have pulled out are all taken out of context. Also how about the pretext of fallen man. God gave Adam and Eve everything they could have ever wanted, but they gave in to temptation from the devil and sinned. God says that the wages of sin is death. God is a holy, perfect, righteous, justful, glad, merciful, and graceful God. How could you expect man to reach God without a sacrifice, which has to be blood. God didn't destroy cities or people without giving them a chance to change. They were given several warnings. Don't take the bible out of context and point out hate which doesn't actually exist. God so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Does that sound like a God who hates people? I don't think so. God loved us so much that he came down to earth and lived a sinless life, to then be put on a cross to die for all of our transgressions. Can you ignore that love, grace, and mercy. The bible even says that God rejoices over us. I don't expect to change your mind in this forum, but I will pray that God will place people in your life and circumstances in your life where you have no choice but to recognize the love and grace of God. He has never left you. He still loves you.

Nevertheless, I would suggest you study the bible in its context and not just pull out passages that fit your stance. The Old Testament tells of the glory to come in the New Testament. Furthermore, You say that the bible was written by falliable men, but I beg to differ. The bible was written in less time than the compolation of works from Socrates, however that is taken as truth and at face value. The bible was transcribed more carefully and with more rules than any other historical document ever.

 

Do your homework.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I just want to point out how much of a robot you sound like when you quote things like "God so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. ". I have news for you. No one that I have ever met in the year 2005 talks like this anymore. Maybe I would not be so annoyed listening to Christians if they could update their language. Stop referring to people as "Sheep/Goats". Stop using words like "Thou" and others. Its incredibly robotic sounding and gives readers the impression that you are brainwashed. God did not give his only begotten son. He didn't suffer. If he was really here then he was GOD...he didn't suffer. If he was God then getting crucified would have been no big deal. He wouldn't have had to feel pain, he knew he was going to heaven because ummmm....yea HE SUPPOSEDLY CREATED IT!!!! How is that suffering?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Bible/Jesus is right about one thing. You have to accept this stuff like a child....because only a child can believe in a man that fly's around the world giving presents to all the "Good boys and girls", and punishes all the "Bad boys and girls" by giving them a lump a coal.

 

No mature, intelligent adult is going to accept that this earth is 6000 years old, that people lived for hundreds of years long ago, etc.....but yes a child can. I hope you grow up someday.