Gobbler Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I was flipping through the channels last night and watched one of Billy Graham's old revival telecasts on TBN, usually just to scoff and reminisce about how silly it was to believe that tripe. Anyway, he's doing his usual spiel about coming to christ and forgiveness of sins and all that. He mentions that "God wants to forgive you!" I reflected on that for a moment and thought to myself why are we as humans held to a higher standard than this god in regards to forgiveness? When we were christians we were always exhorted to forgive others first and foremost to receive god's forgiveness and blessings. In other words, we were taught to not even expect others who may have wronged us to come to us and ask for forgiveness. We should forgive first! Nine times out of ten the other person won't come to you for forgiveness anyway. Because oftentimes that person may not even know they have offended you. Yet the christian god is not held to the same requirements. We have to ask first! Even though the supposed sacrifice was to take care of all sin! If you offended someone in your family and you already have a good relationship with them usually they will forgive your offense without you begging for it. Granted, that sometimes takes a long period and some people hold grudges which is a purely human characteristic. So we as humans have to be the better person and forgive first while the sky daddy has to be asked and groveled to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think it goes back to two main beliefs in xianity: 1) we humans are the scum of the earth and 2) god can do no wrong. Pretty much everything in the doctrine is based on these beliefs. One big example of this is the fall in the garden of Eden. We were the ones who rebelled against god (if you believe the bible to be true). Adam and Eve were created perfect and then they willingly disobeyed god's law and brought sin to man. Some more fundamentalist xians use this to excuse the deplorable treatment of women. Eve tempted Adam and brought him to sin, so if men are scum, then women are worse than scum. God, of course, is blameless because he's perfect. He never does anything bad, so we don't need to forgive him. These people believe that even the worst situations ever have some kind of divine purpose. If you've ever seen the movie Religulous, there's a part where Bill Maher talks to the actor who plays Jesus at Holy Land in FL. The Jesus actor says that god can take the worst situation and make it part of his purpose. Maher says "What about the Holocaust? How was that good?" and the Jesus guy says that even that had a divine purpose. I've heard people tell parents of disabled and very sick kids that god gave them the child for a reason, that god wouldn't give a parent a child with a situation that they couldn't handle, etc. You have to remember that we're not dealing with people who are rational. These people don't think the way most normal people do. Most of them have been conditioned from the time they were very little that they are sinners and the scum of the earth and that god is the one who deserves all of the glory and good things. These "morals" are taught early on, and I think it's because it's the only way the mind would possibly accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 A woman once quoted me the verse "Who are you, o man, to judge God?" Who the hell do I have to be? If he can do anything he wants to and we have to call it good, that is dysfunctional at best. That verse has always angered me since it is used to squelch questions. This woman was dyed-in-the-wool Xian drone material, completely unquestioning, happy to do whatever she was told was God's will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 These people don't think the way most normal people do. Most of them have been conditioned from the time they were very little that they are sinners and the scum of the earth and that god is the one who deserves all of the glory and good things. These "morals" are taught early on, and I think it's because it's the only way the mind would possibly accept it. It is truly regrettable that I once thought that way. Thankfully I've woken up from that horrid nightmare of a religion! I was once lost, now I've found reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 A woman once quoted me the verse "Who are you, o man, to judge God?" Who the hell do I have to be? If he can do anything he wants to and we have to call it good, that is dysfunctional at best. That verse has always angered me since it is used to squelch questions. This woman was dyed-in-the-wool Xian drone material, completely unquestioning, happy to do whatever she was told was God's will. Rabid fundies always resort to this excuse. Oh no, can't be questioning my god! Yeah, we can't be questioning a non-existent, invisible mythical creature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 It all comes down to our ways are not Gods ways, God has sovereignty, God has the right to do whatever he wants with his creation, its free will, etc. When these excuses don't cut it anymore, you are then an ex-christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaoi Huntress Earth Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Or how God acts in the old testment where he can be cruel, jealous, murderous and hateful but god-forbid one of us has sex outside of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsy79 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 So we as humans have to be the better person and forgive first while the sky daddy has to be asked and groveled to! My ex-church used to always say god already forgave us, so we didn't have to ask forgiveness; we just had to accept the forgiveness already extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 So we as humans have to be the better person and forgive first while the sky daddy has to be asked and groveled to! My ex-church used to always say god already forgave us, so we didn't have to ask forgiveness; we just had to accept the forgiveness already extended. Yet there are always conditions to that forgiveness. I was taught we had to "accept" jesus into our heart then obviously "live" a christian life and forgive others that wronged you regardless of whether they asked for it or not. If you couldn't forgive someone or you held a grudge that was sin therefore god couldn't forgive you. For the once saved always saved crowd I guess that would mean losing one of your crowns when you got to heaven. Because the lord would chastise your ass for holding that grudge and bitterness and then you would cry and be very embarrassed before the lord, hiding your ass in the corner of your little mansion up in the sky kingdom. For those of the charismatic persuasion one could lose your salvation if you held onto that unforgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 So we as humans have to be the better person and forgive first while the sky daddy has to be asked and groveled to! That's what I don't get, either. If God's going to forgive us, why doesn't he just go ahead and forgive us? Who's God trying to impress, himself? My church compared it all to giving a gift. If somebody gave you a gift and you didn't accept it, wouldn't you be sad about that? How dare you refuse to accept my imaginary friend's gift?! You're going to make him cry in a corner! At least I don't go around torturing people for all eternity if they don't accept my gifts. I just move on with my life but Jesus apparently has the mindset of a three year old according to them. If I was Jesus, I'd be more insulted by their portrayal of him more so than anyone not accepting my gift, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 In other words, we were taught to not even expect others who may have wronged us to come to us and ask for forgiveness. We should forgive first! Nine times out of ten the other person won't come to you for forgiveness anyway. Because oftentimes that person may not even know they have offended you. Yet the christian god is not held to the same requirements. We have to ask first! I think it's to close all the gaps just in case we don't feel forgiven so we can't blame God. Because if we can blame God then we might come to unfavourable conclusions about an all-loving God. If we ask forgiveness and still don't feel forgiven, well, then obviously there's still something lacking on our side. See how this lets god off the hook. Please don't ask me to explain the details of how this logic works because I'm not sure myself it just seems to work for the powers that be. I'm always left feeling like I'm missing something obvious. I think perhaps that's the trick to their power--make the other guy feel stupid (and sends them--the powers that be--on a power trip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Moon Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I know what you mean I've been thinking about that myself. If God is prefect then surely he should set himself to a higher standard then us since he's supposed to be a kind of role model to us human folk. In Genesis 9:6 it says "Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man" Well since god has shed man's blood by killing and hurting people in lots of ways then maybe his own blood should be shed? just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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