The Barbarism Of The Crucifixion Of Jesus

[Neon Genesis]

Since today is "Good" Friday, I thought it would be interesting to have a thread about why the crucifixion of Jesus is barbaric. It's not simply because the people who crucified Jesus were barbaric which they certainly were, but that the whole plan of salvation is from the start. The basic idea is that God sends himself to Earth in the form of a human who is somehow magically him and the Holy Spirit at the same time to rid the world of sin which he created/allowed to exist in the first place. Even though God was all-knowing and all-powerful and knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve would bring sin into the world by eating the magical fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and could have easily created a situation where Adam and Eve still had freewill, but didn't plant the tree right smack in front of his creations that have only been alive for a few hours, God still casted them out of the garden and let sin loose in the world. One must wonder if God didn't want sin to enter the world, why didn't God just give them a punishment in the garden and then forgive them instead of kicking them out? Anyway, it's because of Adam and Eve that we're somehow supposed to bear the burden of their mistake, even though Ezekiel 18:19-20 contradicts this by saying that no one should be held responsible for the sins of their father. But because of our sin that Adam and Eve passed onto us, this sin led to the murder of Jesus on the cross. It's not enough that Jesus dies for the present sins of humanity. Jesus apparently died for the sins of everyone at all times, past, present and future, whether we actually do anything truly evil or not. Most of us don't go around murdering or raping people or committing mass genocide (funny that God does though), but because we merely exist, we're somehow guilty of murdering Jesus.

 

For any Christians reading this, if this itself doesn't make your skin crawl with disgust as to how a supposed loving god can create such a barbaric plan of salvation, I must question either the sincerity of your faith, the insanity of your mind, or the morals of your heart if you believe that the death of Jesus is an act of God's love. How can God let his only begotten son who is also somehow magically God committing suicide die on the cross simply because we exist? What about all the innocent old ladies in China that never heard the gospel but has a good heart and never did anything like murder or rape? Why is God so cruel as to blame this poor innocent lady as being responsible for the murder of Jesus simply because she exists? What about Anne Frank? Is she counted as a murderer of Jesus too simply for existing even though she was tortured herself? But apparently all the Jewish people are counted as the murderers of Jesus in Matthew 25:27

And all the people said, "(A)His blood shall be on us and on our children!"

Besides which, Jesus is far from being the perfect martyr Christians reimagine him as. In Matthew 15:3-4 Jesus bashes the Pharisees for not having the heart to put their children to death simply for saying bad things about them apparently

And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

 

4"For God said, '(D)HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, '(E)HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'

Of course this does not make the horrors Jesus went through any less horrid and there's no justification for crucifixion as torture is clearly an immoral act no matter who does it, but why should good people like Anne Frank who aren't murdering or raping people be held responsible for the murder of a man who advocated child abuse simply for existence? Christians often say that Jesus' death supersedes the laws of the OT but how do they reconcile this apparent contradiction of Jesus giving the commandment to stone your children for talking back? Granted the bible is obviously not historically accurate so it's possible that if Jesus lived at all, he might not have ever had said these words, but this is coming from the "traditional" literal approach to the bible that the majority of Christians partaking in the Easter holiday this weekend will likely interpret these events as. Besides which, if Jesus is God on the flesh, how can God die on the cross while still somehow magically exist in heaven at the same time? I think Thomas Paine puts the absurdity of it all best in The Age Of Reason

Putting aside everything that might excite laughter by its absurdity, or detestation by its profaneness, and confining ourselves merely to an examination of the parts, it is impossible to conceive a story more derogatory to the Almighty, more inconsistent with his wisdom, more contradictory to his power, than this story is.

 

In order to make for it a foundation to rise upon, the inventors were under the necessity of giving to the being whom they call Satan, a power equally as great, if not greater than they attribute to the Almighty. They have not only given him the power of liberating himself from the pit, after what they call his fall, but they have made that power increase afterward to infinity. Before this fall they represent him only as an angel of limited existence, as they represent the rest. After his fall, he becomes, by their account, omnipresent. He exists everywhere, and at the same time. He occupies the whole immensity of space.

 

Not content with this deification of Satan, they represent him as defeating, by stratagem, in the shape of an animal of the creation, all the power and wisdom of the Almighty. They represent him as having compelled the Almighty to the direct necessity either of surrendering the whole of the creation to the government and sovereignty of this Satan, or of capitulating for its redemption by coming down upon earth, and exhibiting himself upon a cross in the shape of a man.

 

Had the inventors of this story told it the contrary way, that is, had they represented the Almighty as compelling Satan to exhibit himself on a cross, in the shape of a snake, as a punishment for his new transgression, the story would have been less absurd—less contradictory. But instead of this, they make the transgressor triumph, and the Almighty fall.

How many Christians this weekend do you think will ever actually stop and think about whether or not the crucifixion of Jesus makes sense? As Richard Dawkins says in The Root Of All Evil documentary, "If God's going to forgive us for our sins anyway, why not just forgive? Whose God trying to impress? Presumably himself."

[mwc]

There's nothing barbaric about something that never happened. Besides, this is from an age where they had gladiators and all sorts of nifty things that really did happen. To focus on the make believe story of "easter" seems a waste of energy (even if it does contain the real idea of a crucifixion). Certainly crucifixion would have been a nasty death (based on what little we really know of it) but there were far worse ways. Most people simply got a beheading or strangulation (quick and cost effective).

 

But perhaps I'm not seeing your point? Is this about how the method of death is barbaric or is this simply another thread about how the bible god is amoral and/or a poor planner (etc., etc.)? The title says one thing but the content indicates another.

 

mwc

[Neon Genesis]

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I meant this thread to be a thread about the immoral contradictions of the bible stories. The crucifixion of Jesus shows to me you don't even have to dig deep into the bible to find endorsements of immorality but xtians for some reason can't even notice them in the very foundation of their faith.

[Zaramon]

There's nothing barbaric about something that never happened. Besides, this is from an age where they had gladiators and all sorts of nifty things that really did happen. To focus on the make believe story of "easter" seems a waste of energy (even if it does contain the real idea of a crucifixion). Certainly crucifixion would have been a nasty death (based on what little we really know of it) but there were far worse ways. Most people simply got a beheading or strangulation (quick and cost effective).

 

But perhaps I'm not seeing your point? Is this about how the method of death is barbaric or is this simply another thread about how the bible god is amoral and/or a poor planner (etc., etc.)? The title says one thing but the content indicates another.

 

mwc

But there is something barbaric about those who would present such stories of barbarism. Indeed.

Why do we invent them? Why must we create gods that endure suffering and Bailouts?

 

Methinks the gods are us. They are the enemy and we have met them.

 

I think about Tom Sawyer. He's me, or more succinctly, I want to be him. I would like for people to want to do what I am supposed to do. If I could only motivate people to whitewash that fence my life would be easier now. Weedeating, edging, believing. Easy stuff.

 

Heinous tales of barbarism. Humans thrive on such. Fight Club crap. Fireworks, Christ on a stick, amusements for the demented. Egads, Kant on acid.

 

Don't look for a point. Just kind of blur things out into a numb perception. Rule reality out. You know, a hazy focus onto the horizon where the full sun meets the hazy heat of what lies on the edge of the Earth.

 

I remember this guy that was convicted of a crime based on his DNA and spent his life in prison because of it. And in another life I remember a guy that was strung out on a beam of wood with nails in his hands and feet. Eeach of these malefactors experienced eternity for a while.

 

What is a lucky death? To experience it for a while or just turn it all off?

 

The Passion is a snuff flick. An experience meant for the orphans of reason.

 

And that's all that I have to say about that.