Rights To Opinion

[Dhampir]

What's the difference between insulting a person's religion, and insulting a person's parent, for instance? I believe there is a difference, and I believe I know what it is, in the arena of public opinion. What a person believes about one's god may be just as closely held as what one believes about their father, yet, to insult one is not wrong, whereas to insult the other typically is, particularly in public. Unless your father was, say, Stalin, or any serial killer you care to name.

 

Where's the line? What's the difference? What's your opinion?

 

Edit: By insult, I mean to speak negatively of, even if what you say is true.

[florduh]

I'm not sure which you think is more acceptable to insult.

 

To many people their religion, like a parent, is part of who they are. Criticizing their beliefs is tantamount to attacking their integrity. I think that is a good indication that atheism is not a religion or belief system. When an atheist is attacked for his non-belief (which happens often) he doesn't get all pissy and act like you kicked his cat.

 

Most view their parents with respect and love. We don't have a choice of who our parents are, yet they are responsible in large part for who we become - even if we don't respect or love them.

 

To me, the worst thing would be to insult my dog.

[Dhampir]

I'm not sure which you think is more acceptable to insult.

Right, well let me clarify. The veracity of a statement notwithstanding, to speak ill of a either a religious belief or one's loved one is generally taken as an insult. Unless you're the grandson of Saddam, or some serial killer, it's generally wrong to denounce your family, particularly in public if that person wasn't that close to you or your family, even if every word they say is true.

[florduh]

Yo Mama.

[Guest Net Eng]

What's the difference between insulting a person's religion, and insulting a person's parent, for instance?

 

I think in many cases there is no difference.

 

When you insult/question/attack a person's religion/parent you are perceived by that person to be attacking them and not the parent/religion.

 

Insulting either parent or religion you are insulting the person's belief. Most people are uncomfortable in that scenario.

 

Take for instance the oft heard statement of "nobody does that to one of our own, except us". Inside questioning is fine it's when a person from the outside does then the problems start.

[Guest Net Eng]

Yo Mama.

 

Those are fighting words... What you got biii-atch ??

[florduh]

Is that not better than insulting yo mama's religion? biii-atch ??

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

A lot of times the insult is in the delivery or circumstances, not the actual words.

 

If someone is willing to openly discuss difficulties you see with their beliefs, then the circumstances are such that what you say shouldn't be taken as an insult.

 

Saying the same things to someone who isn't open to that type of discussion is an insult in the same way that walking up to a complete stranger and telling them their breath stinks would be, even if you're speaking the truth.

[Dhampir]

Good points, And I particularly agree with this:

A lot of times the insult is in the delivery or circumstances, not the actual words.

Now, I've been hashing this out in the shoutbox, and I got to the question of simply denouncing a person's religious belief. People go on tv all the time saying that religious dogma is unworthy of respect. Most of us are here because we believe that to be true. If someone, unconnected to your family, went on tv and said your because father was a drug addict at some point in his life, that makes him unworthy of respect, what would make it different?

 

Of course, the purpose of publicly denouncing someone's family is almost always to harass/insult that someone. To denounce a religious doctrine is often held as the same thing, and yet we pretty much have the right do so, at least in this country. How do you differentiate?

 

I think it's the non-specific nature of religion, and our equal access to it that makes it different. I think my belief in a particular doctrine's worthiness to be ridiculed is as valid as another's right to think otherwise. I guess a good question is, what makes someone's belief that your parent is unworthy of respect not valid grounds to ridicule them in public where you can know it, or in your presence specifically?

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Of course, the purpose of publicly denouncing someone's family is almost always to harass/insult that someone. To denounce a religious doctrine is often held as the same thing, and yet we pretty much have the right do so, at least in this country. How do you differentiate?

 

To me, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

 

As far as public pronouncements go, I think what's fair for christians is fair for non-christians. If it's socially acceptable for a televangelist to go on the air and say "The fool has said in his heart there is no god" it's equally OK for a non-believer to say "Only a fool would believe in god". I'm not saying this will win any converts, but it should be equally acceptable.

 

If you want to really engage someone in a potentially productive discussion, you have to first get their explicit or implicit approval to say negative things about their beliefs, and usually be willing to reciprocate.

 

In the end, it depends on your goal as to what approach you would need to take.

[Neon Genesis]

I think Dawkins summed it up best in The God Delusion. That you only respect another person's beliefs to the extent that you "respect" their opinion that their wife is beautiful and that their kids are smart.

[child like faith]

What's the difference between insulting a person's religion, and insulting a person's parent, for instance? I believe there is a difference, and I believe I know what it is, in the arena of public opinion. What a person believes about one's god may be just as closely held as what one believes about their father, yet, to insult one is not wrong, whereas to insult the other typically is, particularly in public. Unless your father was, say, Stalin, or any serial killer you care to name.

 

Where's the line? What's the difference? What's your opinion?

 

Edit: By insult, I mean to speak negatively of, even if what you say is true.

 

 

I would rather have you call my mother a whore Than God's.

 

Insulting me or my family or me insulting you and your family to me is no big deal to me.

 

 

I concider who the insult is given to the creature or the creator.

 

 

Now You just may be ONE OF THE FEW real x christian athiest's.

but most of them here are not Athiests at all. Their SIMPLY God hater's and they hate anyone who believes in him .And they love it here because they can spew their hatred amoung sympathetic ears.

But if their are true Athiests here even they have easly figured this out . But its to their advantage, human creatures don't like to be loner's in their views .But they know the most vile ones are here because they believe their is a God and they viciously attack him getting back at him . These sily people come here to get support in hopes the real athiests over time will accept them and finaly fuly convince them that no God exists . In the mean time their vile tongues prove they are at war with God for some reason or another and do believe in him .

 

So what am i doing here ? To answer some questions for those at war with God . But i have to waite

for opportunity's since they don't want the real athiests who already know they are at war with a God they hate and try to hurt by telling every one and every thing in the most l vile manner they can think of that he does not exist . And then if any one disagree's they lash out violently at them . THINKING THE REAL ATHIEST'S WILL THINK WHAT A GOOD ATHIEST THEY ARE TO.

[Ouroboros]

I would rather have you call my mother a whore Than God's.

God has a mother?

 

but most of them here are not Athiests at all. Their SIMPLY God hater's and they hate anyone who believes in him .

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

 

And they love it here because they can spew their hatred amoung sympathetic ears.

That doesn't mean you can spew your hatred.

 

But if their are true Athiests here even they have easly figured this out . But its to their advantage, human creatures don't like to be loner's in their views .But they know the most vile ones are here because they believe their is a God and they viciously attack him getting back at him . These sily people come here to get support in hopes the real athiests over time will accept them and finaly fuly convince them that no God exists . In the mean time their vile tongues prove they are at war with God for some reason or another and do believe in him .

Bzzzt. Wrong again.

 

So what am i doing here ? To answer some questions for those at war with God . But i have to waite

for opportunity's since they don't want the real athiests who already know they are at war with a God they hate and try to hurt by telling every one and every thing in the most l vile manner they can think of that he does not exist . And then if any one disagree's they lash out violently at them . THINKING THE REAL ATHIEST'S WILL THINK WHAT A GOOD ATHIEST THEY ARE TO.

Sense you make not. Grammar is skill you bad at are. God no blessed you did he with skill you need to make understood to others? Poor chap, pray God to for miracle big so comprehensive sentences make you could sometimes and, we, could, also, maybe, know WHAT THE FRIGGING WHAT YOU WHAT SAYING!? Eh? Or speaking in tongues you are? Or too many Star Wars you seen have? Little green men who speak funny influenced you too much they have.

[florduh]

. . . Now You just may be ONE OF THE FEW real x christian athiest's.

but most of them here are not Athiests at all. Their SIMPLY God hater's and they hate anyone who believes in him .And they love it here because they can spew their hatred amoung sympathetic ears.

But if their are true Athiests here even they have easly figured this out . But its to their advantage, human creatures don't like to be loner's in their views .But they know the most vile ones are here because they believe their is a God and they viciously attack him getting back at him . These sily people come here to get support in hopes the real athiests over time will accept them and finaly fuly convince them that no God exists . In the mean time their vile tongues prove they are at war with God for some reason or another and do believe in him .

 

So what am i doing here ? To answer some questions for those at war with God . But i have to waite

for opportunity's since they don't want the real athiests who already know they are at war with a God they hate and try to hurt by telling every one and every thing in the most l vile manner they can think of that he does not exist . And then if any one disagree's they lash out violently at them . THINKING THE REAL ATHIEST'S WILL THINK WHAT A GOOD ATHIEST THEY ARE TO.

 

Nobody is at war with your god, or has any questions for you.

 

I think everyone here pretty much hates the idea of the god invented by the Bible and Christianity, and with good reason. People hate YOUR VERSION of god. Lots of other folks found other, more likely gods to consider, while yet others are atheists who do not believe in supernatural gods of any sort.

 

But your god isn't real to any of us. He simply doesn't exist, so how can one hate something that doesn't exist? Even if he did exist, nobody with any morals or sense would willingly worship such a cruel, contradictory and capricious thing. It's so silly it can't be real.

 

No, your god is a total bust when examined by thinking people who learn to escape the controlling fear of that ancient desert superstition. You should take the word of people who claim no belief that they are indeed atheists, and rest assured, those who do have a belief of some kind don't share yours.