God's Garden

[Abiyoyo]

When I read about the solar system, exploration of Mars etc; I tend to to feel more and more confident that God made everything. I know Genesis is comparable to a children's story, yet Earth IS the only planet that can currently sustain life. So maybe Earth could be God's garden. I would feel different if in this 20th century technological world we went into space and did discover other forms of life, in a current sense; but that is not the case.

 

I see NASA, space exploration at this point similar to exploration of if the world was flat. The only difference was that it came to be that the world wasn't flat, and the exploration of the universe came to be, no other forms of life. I see space exploration, as to if the Earth ended up being flat, but we kept sailing over the edge from various locations trying to prove it was round, plummeting to our deaths.

 

Trying to send people to live on mars is redundant in my opinion, yet we have a team waiting, training, and ready out in the dessert. I read in one article that it gets down to 170 degrees below zero on Mars. Even if we built on mars to meet the needs of a human being; it would cost more than any person could ever imagine.

 

I say Earth is it, and it's almost maxed out. And I say since there is no other forms of life anywhere in the solar system, as to life on Earth; that Earth is God's garden

 

What are your thought's?

[florduh]

Ah yes, the Goldilocks argument. Conditions on Earth are just right for life to exist.

 

Earth conditions are just right for life as we know it to begin and evolve and flourish.

 

Astronomers and astrophysicists agree that there are innumerable planets in the universe that could, and likely do, host life forms similar to those on our planet. In fact, the emergence of life under these appropriate conditions is inevitable. Different planetary conditions could evolve different kinds of life that we may not even recognize as living things. Earth-like planets are a tiny percentage of planets, but still number in the billions.

 

Remember, our entire solar system is a tiny speck in the vastness of just what we already know to exist. We haven't met any aliens, and may never meet them, but we are not alone in the universe. It is statistically impossible.

[gypsy79]

Well, we don't know that Earth is the only planet that can sustain life. In fact, what Florduh said is correct:

 

Astronomers and astrophysicists agree that there are innumerable planets in the universe that could, and likely do, host life forms similar to those on our planet. In fact, the emergence of life under these appropriate conditions is inevitable. Different planetary conditions could evolve different kinds of life that we may not even recognize as living things. Earth-like planets are a tiny percentage of planets, but still number in the billions. Remember, our entire solar system is a tiny speck in the vastness of just what we already know to exist.

 

Here is something I posted earlier today. It explains my views on THE BEGINNING, in an admittedly elementary manner:

 

...I used to be a Creationist, [so] I'll give it a shot. At the time, my biggest problem with the Big Bang theory was that it seemed more unrealistic than Creationism. I have heard the same thing from many other Creationists. You can believe one of the following:

 

1. Some all powerful being who had always existed and that humans can't understand created the universe

2. Gases that came out of nowhere and weren't created by anything banged together (I'm paraphrasing badly to keep this post simple...lol)

 

To me, neither really made a huge amount of sense, but it was easier to justify # 1 in my mind because it "answered" the question of how the first thing got here. The "answer" was that there is no way we know because God is mysterious. # 2 left a lot to be desired because it didn't answer the question of where the damn gases came from in the first place. This is why I (still) hate it when non-Creationists say "Who created God?" because I'm sure all the Creationists are thinking "Back at you. Who created the damn gases?"

 

Although I stopped believing in God over a year ago, I still could not come to terms with this Big Bang problem until I read The God Delusion a couple of days ago. I had a humongous AHA moment when I realized that nobody really knows how the damn gases got here, but it's the best theory we have right now. God is too complex to have just appeared (without evolving) in all his wonder and glory, ready to create things. Much more probable that the world "started" with something much simpler, such as gases or whatever came before the gases. The problem is that [people probably won't] understand Dawkins' logic without a good, solid understanding of the theory of evolution (so they can understand why it makes more sense that the world started out simple). ...

[Ouroboros]

Yoyo,

 

So you're saying that there's not enough evidence to prove that life exists on other planets, so therefore it is logical to infer that there is no life anywhere in the Universe?

 

How about God? I spent 30 years without finding any evidence for God. So it must be logically correct then to infer that God can't exist?

[gypsy79]

Very insightful, HanSolo.

[Abiyoyo]

They also agree that most of these planets have been around for billions of years as to Earth, right? Or are you talking about the rock masses that sometimes connect near a sunlike mass. As far as I gather, currently, there are no possible evidences of any life on any other planets, or masses in the solar system, let alone that would support human life.

 

My OP was more to the intent of space exploration for human colonization. I see it as redundant.

[Ouroboros]

They also agree that most of these planets have been around for billions of years as to Earth, right? Or are you talking about the rock masses that sometimes connect near a sunlike mass. As far as I gather, currently, there are no possible evidences of any life on any other planets, or masses in the solar system, let alone that would support human life.

 

My OP was more to the intent of space exploration for human colonization. I see it as redundant.

Okay, lets compare:

 

Many thousands years of search for God. Humanity has reached the agreement that 100,000 different religions must be right, there is a God, two, three, four, millions Gods. And all of them are different. So therefore, since we haven't seen God the last thousands of years, God must exist.

 

Compare to:

 

Astronomy and the technology to find other planets is just a baby science. Modern astronomy just a few hundred years old, while the technology to find other planets younger than me! So lets, based on it being in its infancy and not yet capable of finding all planets, we should infer that there are no M-class planets in the Universe.

 

 

Hmm.... Big difference in time. Religions existing for thousands of years and yet failing, compared to science (a few hundred years) and the technology to find other planets inhabitable for humans (only 15-20 years), and you already judge it to be failing? If your impatience would apply to religion and people would be like you, religion would have been dead and buried before Jesus was born.

 

Do you understand what I'm saying? They have found a few hundred planets (outside our star-system), and if we go inside our system, Mars is a potential candidate for Terra-forming.

[Abiyoyo]

Yoyo,

 

So you're saying that there's not enough evidence to prove that life exists on other planets, so therefore it is logical to infer that there is no life anywhere in the Universe?

 

How about God? I spent 30 years without finding any evidence for God. So it must be logically correct then to infer that God can't exist?

 

Well Hans, like I was saying, there is no evidence that is rational for human colonization. Why would you logically think God is something to be found, discovered, evidenced? Would God not be more than just a scientific discovery?

 

Mars has certain elements that shows there once was water there, possibly billions of years ago. There is no evidence that Mars has water on/in it of it's current state, which would mean, no life. But, we still explore on without hard evidences, even have a team training to live in a station in the dessert putting on space suits when they go outside. Evidence can only be obtained through observations.

 

I observe that the God of Christianity, Judaism, Islam has reached out to humanity, so I have good belief that he is God. The evidence for me is in the people that God affects, changes, and history. I also observe that their is no life on any other planet, so Earth is unique out of all the planets in the solar system. My opinion anyhow.

[Abiyoyo]

Do you understand what I'm saying? They have found a few hundred planets (outside our star-system), and if we go inside our system, Mars is a potential candidate for Terra-forming.

 

I understand your point Hans about it being new, but it is defined enough to at least as you stated see what we got to use, right? Which was Mars, and seemingly non conclusive, right? Water can't be sustained on Mars.

[Ouroboros]

Well Hans, like I was saying, there is no evidence that is rational for human colonization. Why would you logically think God is something to be found, discovered, evidenced? Would God not be more than just a scientific discovery?

Are we talking about a planet like this one: First Habitable Alien Planet Found?

 

You are jumping to conclusions about planets because we haven't found one in a short time of science, while you claim God must exist based on no evidence the last 10,000 years of search.

 

Or are you claiming that God is unreachable?

 

Mars has certain elements that shows there once was water there, possibly billions of years ago. There is no evidence that Mars has water on/in it of it's current state, which would mean, no life. But, we still explore on without hard evidences, even have a team training to live in a station in the dessert putting on space suits when they go outside. Evidence can only be obtained through observations.

Or... other kind of life. And why shouldn't we try to populate space, or try to find life? Is it because God exists without evidence, and he told someone in a dream that's how it's supposed to be?

 

I observe that the God of Christianity, Judaism, Islam has reached out to humanity, so I have good belief that he is God. The evidence for me is in the people that God affects, changes, and history.

Humans and nature do those things. Not God.

 

Human nature and natures way of things doesn't prove God, it only proves human nature and the way of nature.

 

I also observe that their is no life on any other planet, so Earth is unique out of all the planets in the solar system. My opinion anyhow.

In our solar system, yes, but are we talking only about our solar system or the universe?

[Ouroboros]

I understand your point Hans about it being new, but it is defined enough to at least as you stated see what we got to use, right? Which was Mars, and seemingly non conclusive, right? Water can't be sustained on Mars.

So you're talking about our solar system only then? Well, of course, yeah, they haven't found any Earth 2.0 in our solar system. That's true. So colonization in our solar system will be tough, no doubt about it. But probably not impossible. Just a lot of work.

 

But are there other planets like Earth in our Galaxy? Sure, very likely. Could there be life there? Sure, probable.

 

Will we find any higher life form in our system? Probably not.

 

Will we find bacteria or maybe just virus in our system? Maybe.

[florduh]

Yes, in our solar system each planet has unique characteristics. One reason is that they each necessarily are different distances from our sun. It will be possible to build livable places under our seas and on Mars. It is also possible to eventually adapt to different environments.

 

Am I missing the point?

[Abiyoyo]

So colonization in our solar system will be tough, no doubt about it. But probably not impossible. Just a lot of work.

 

Even if we found water on Mars, we all just gonna get on a cruise shuttle and take a trip up to Mars? Hell, we can't even ensure the safety of the explorers at this point.

[Abiyoyo]

Yes, in our solar system each planet has unique characteristics. One reason is that they each necessarily are different distances from our sun. It will be possible to build livable places under our seas and on Mars. It is also possible to eventually adapt to different environments.

 

Am I missing the point?

 

Well Florduh, the point for me is that we will not be able to do those things. Why not put all the effort into the seas first? Why Mars? One would think if we could already be inhabiting under water in some areas, like..Florida, or supporting our land we already know supports life then we should be doing that; but we aren't. Hurricane Katrina is a good example. Government could've improved that situation, but they didn't. They were gathering rocks from Mars to see about colonizing a planet that would cost a million times more than building a support system for New Orleans.

[florduh]

It is all possible, and will be done. The problem is we don't plan ahead and take necessary steps until the situation is critical. Undersea colonization and the greening of the arid lands will come well before other planets are considered. Artificial space stations are also possible solutions.

 

But my guess is that the population will self regulate through disaster and war, so there will still be room on Earth for the survivors.

[Ouroboros]

So colonization in our solar system will be tough, no doubt about it. But probably not impossible. Just a lot of work.

 

Even if we found water on Mars, we all just gonna get on a cruise shuttle and take a trip up to Mars? Hell, we can't even ensure the safety of the explorers at this point.

Like I said, tough, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

The first step is to create a space station in orbit where we can start building the shuttles.

 

Most likely we have to colonize the Moon first.

 

Water and resources will be a problem, but through purification it can be done... yes, reused water (sweat, pee, and all that stuff... urgh... it probably needs a bit of overcoming the feeling first before the common man would be willing to go...)

 

Anyway, it won't happen unless we try. But since Jesus is coming back tomorrow, maybe it's just wasted effort... why not just lay down on the floor and slowly wither away? There's no meaning to this life if God is going to destroy it soon anyway.

 

 

And Florduh, I agree. We think alike.

[PandaPirate]

They also agree that most of these planets have been around for billions of years as to Earth, right? Or are you talking about the rock masses that sometimes connect near a sunlike mass. As far as I gather, currently, there are no possible evidences of any life on any other planets, or masses in the solar system, let alone that would support human life.

 

My OP was more to the intent of space exploration for human colonization. I see it as redundant.

 

YoYo, it is impossible for mankind to travel to evey single planet to see whether or not life exists. Also, the possibility exists that life could evolve on another planet that is completely different from what we call life. Different planets would have different conditions therefore different types of life than what we are accustomed to.

 

To assume that there isn't life in another galaxy (of which there are BILLIONS) just because it hasn't been found (due to the Cosmic Speed Limit) is rather premature.

[Tabula Rasa]

Yo Yo, doesn't it seem wasteful for an omnipotent being to have created all these countless worlds and only allow life on one? Something else to consider is maybe "he" likes some variety in his cosmos , and it has been suggested, there are lifeforms out there that are nothing like what we consider living things to be. Here on this modest world of ours, the sentient life present is man, a carbon based life form. For all we know ,maybe waaay out in a binary system in the Andromeda galaxy, there's a gaseous planet possessing an advanced civilization created by silicon based flying wiggly worms?

 

(This is something, as a bit of a deist that I find annoying about christians. You believe that God is omnipotent, but yet you seem to have a limited imagination in regard to what wonders a being with unlimited power could do.)

 

Why would "God" limit himself to one garden?

[Vixentrox]

So colonization in our solar system will be tough, no doubt about it. But probably not impossible. Just a lot of work.

 

Even if we found water on Mars, we all just gonna get on a cruise shuttle and take a trip up to Mars? Hell, we can't even ensure the safety of the explorers at this point.

And 150 years ago flying machines were pure fancy and in 1914 the thought of an airplane going the speed of sound was ludicrus...and yet we have airplanes that go several times over the speed of sound. Is it so hard to believe in another 100 years going to Mars will be like taking a plane from New York to LA?

[Abiyoyo]

Why would "God" limit himself to one garden?

 

If God is omni everything, then it doesn't matter to much because it's the way it is because that the way it was made to be, right?

[Deva]

Yoyo, you said

yet Earth IS the only planet that can currently sustain life

 

It is the only planet at this stage of our knowledge that we know can sustain life. We have discovered many planets outside our solar system. They are just too far away to determine if they are capable of sustaining life, but some of them may, and even in our own solar system we have yet to explore the moons Europa and Titan thoroughly to determine if life exists in some form. Titan has a thick atmosphere and Europa has a layer of ice that we don't know what is beneath it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon)

 

So here's to the discovery of future Europeans!

 

We can't expect human life elsewhere, the road evolution has taken is specific to this world only. Intelligent life would almost certainly look different from us.

 

Sorry to say Yoyo, but you show a disappointing lack of imagination and a sort of tunnel vision.

 

If humans can get to Mars (and there is every reason to believe they can), it will eventually be colonized barring some catastrophe for the human race here on earth that prevents them. Historically humans colonize every scrap of land they can reach. Not to say there are not tremendous difficulties with the atmosphere and distance, which will probably prevent this happening in my lifetime. There is water locked up in the Martian poles so I would say that is where the colony will most likely be.

[Tabula Rasa]

Why would "God" limit himself to one garden?

 

If God is omni everything, then it doesn't matter to much because it's the way it is because that the way it was made to be, right?

 

Umm, I'm sorry but I do not understand what you're saying here at all.

 

What I was getting at is to say that earth is the only planet "God" put life on, makes no sense. Seriously, why would God limit himself to one tiny part of an unimaginably large universe that'd he'd created. It'd be like planting a single flower on a thousand acres of land.

Why shouldn't God, being capable of creating anything, not want to use the full extent of his abilities and create countless forms of life?

 

If I had the ability to create anything, I'd be happier than a pig in an ocean of crap. Having an infinite imagination and capability, you'd never get bored. You could go on creating forever.

 

In response to the original thought though: Why shouldn't we go out and explore space? We humans are curious lot

and we've sacrificed life and limb through history to see what's over the horizon, so why should space exploration be any different? The moon and Mars can be our springboards to go deeper into space. We might find worlds out there with natural resources yet undiscovered that would allow us to vastly advance our technology. And we might find other intelligent life out there and can benefit from the exchange of cultures and ideas.(Or we might get in a nasty space war, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.)

 

To boldly go where no one has gone before...(and screw hot alien chicks with four boobs.)