Question

[R. S. Martin]

Just now I watched a ten-minute video

. Predictably, it's about missionizing remote, problem-ridden communities being transformed into civilized church-going healthy communities where alcoholism, demons, war, and sexual harassment ceased to exist. It was obvious that all of the people had a minimum of education and and very little exposure to the outside world. It was also obvious, from the parts that the video-makers chose to show, that a real change had occurred.

 

IF THE CHANGE IS REAL, my question is: Why did religion work so well for these people but not for us?

 

Next question: Did it work because the people realized they could help themselves?

 

If so, would secular instruction, with a focus on the practical and scientific consequences, have worked just as well to transform these communities?

[florduh]

The film reminds me of the "docudramas" we might see on the History Channel. It's the same style as some films made about how everyone in Roswell back in 1947 knew about the UFO crash and the alien bodies, but were afraid to talk then. Or the people who can prove the Shroud of Turin is genuine, or that they have found Noah's Ark - but just can't quite get to it. It's like the videos about how all the people living around Loch Ness have seen the monster (but can't prove it). It reminds me of an old documentary film I saw in which many eyewitnesses were interviewed and documents produced to prove that the Holocaust never happened.

 

In other words, a propaganda film.

[R. S. Martin]

Thanks for explaining, florduh.

[Guest Itookthebluepill]

I find these things to be very laughable. First, any "Christian" community can experience short-term periods where things seem better. For a period of time, crime will be down, people will be nice, etc. The same phenomenon is observable in our own communities here; you see people who undergo some new religious transformation and 99.99% of the time they revert back to previous behaviors. Given a long enough amount of time, humans will always revert. It's just our nature.

 

I agree with florduh here... It's purely propaganda. Apply the same concept to the middle east. The United States government, in the last 7 years, felt that "democracy and God's grace" needed to be restored to the Iraqi people (as if it was ever then in the first place). Christians, for all the good that they may intend to do, are injecting a very foreign and confusing way of life into a people who have lived their own way for thousands of years. Imagine Muslims coming here from Iraq, invading North America, and telling us we've been running our government incorrectly and so on. It would be completely foreign to us.

 

I guess my point is that, while Christians and Christian missionaries try to do well, then end up forcing their way of life on others (see Inquisition, settling of Middle/North America). To answer your question as to why it didn't work for us, I would guess that it's merely new to them, like a new car. You love your car but after several years its shine begins to fade. Those of us unlucky enough to be raised "Christian" grow up with it and it's all we know, therefore we develop our own human tendencies to counter our built-in social norms.

[child like faith]

Just now I watched a ten-minute video

. Predictably, it's about missionizing remote, problem-ridden communities being transformed into civilized church-going healthy communities where alcoholism, demons, war, and sexual harassment ceased to exist. It was obvious that all of the people had a minimum of education and and very little exposure to the outside world. It was also obvious, from the parts that the video-makers chose to show, that a real change had occurred.

 

IF THE CHANGE IS REAL, my question is: Why did religion work so well for these people but not for us?

 

Next question: Did it work because the people realized they could help themselves?

 

If so, would secular instruction, with a focus on the practical and scientific consequences, have worked just as well to transform these communities?

 

 

Well Mr Martin .

 

i though you were brainy ?

 

do i need to tell you! don't believe every thing you see!~

 

St paul long after his conversion by the word of Jesus not by his experiance with Jesus . wrote this .

 

1 Timothy 1:15

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

 

being so smart i hope you noticed the present tence paul used.

 

you don't seem to know any thing much at all about christianity .

but then how could you. your to smart

 

and those natives they do! Thank God their as stupid as the rest of Gods true believers. we know just how stupid one must be. .

 

 

Matthew 11:25

[ Rest for the Weary ]

 

 

At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

[buffettphan]

 

I repeat:

 

I've been reading your various posts tonight, child like, and you are quite obnoxious. From your spelling, grammar, writing style, and attitude, I find it difficult to believe you are an "older christian" as you state in your profile. Why are you here? Do you not comprehend the name and purpose of this EX-CHRISTIAN website? We've been down the xtian path and rejected it. If you want to DISCUSS issues, that's fine. But this site is not intended for use by proselytizing xtians. If you want to preach, set up and pay for your own website.

 

BTW, the only way I'd try to slit anybody's throat would be in self-defense. You are sick. Get help.

 

And remember, child-like, children readily follow and are easily manipulated by those in authority -- not something to which most mature, rational thinking adults should aspire.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"child like faith" claims to be an older christian--a lutheran, and has been spewing sarcastic comments, ignorance, and buybull verses all over our website today.

[child like faith]

 

I repeat:

 

I've been reading your various posts tonight, child like, and you are quite obnoxious. From your spelling, grammar, writing style, and attitude, I find it difficult to believe you are an "older christian" as you state in your profile. Why are you here? Do you not comprehend the name and purpose of this EX-CHRISTIAN website? We've been down the xtian path and rejected it. If you want to DISCUSS issues, that's fine. But this site is not intended for use by proselytizing xtians. If you want to preach, set up and pay for your own website.

 

BTW, the only way I'd try to slit anybody's throat would be in self-defense. You are sick. Get help.

 

And remember, child-like, children readily follow and are easily manipulated by those in authority -- not something to which most mature, rational thinking adults should aspire.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"child like faith" claims to be an older christian--a lutheran, and has been spewing sarcastic comments, ignorance, and buybull verses all over our website today.

 

 

really smart you people .the brainest of You have impressed me so . I have learned so much from them and you also. you though not nearly as brainy as some of your buddies are so full of your self

you could carry this athiest thingy, your all so proud of all by your self.

 

 

the verses really bug you dont they . As they show how little you so called x christians really know about christianity.

 

any one can claim to have been a christian . But no one has proved to any one you ever were. Your always spotting about prove this or that . Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

[Astreja]

Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

"Prove"? "Deserve"? You misunderstand, CLF. We do not need to prove anything to you. We do not need to earn the right to call ourselves ex-Christians. And there's nothing you can do about it. If you don't like it, go away.

[buffettphan]

really smart you people .the brainest of You have impressed me so . I have learned so much from them and you also. you though not nearly as brainy as some of your buddies are so full of your self

you could carry this athiest thingy, your all so proud of all by your self.

 

LOL.... I never claimed to be as "brainy" as some of the other members here, nor is it a competition. But hey, at least I know how to spell ATHEIST correctly, unlike yourself.

 

 

the verses really bug you dont they . As they show how little you so called x christians really know about christianity.

 

Nope, the verses don't bug me a bit. I know all about xtianity. Been there, done that; rejected it. They don't call it ChristInsanity for nothing.

 

any one can claim to have been a christian . But no one has proved to any one you ever were. Your always spotting about prove this or that . Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

 

I don't have to prove a thing to you. But believe me, if I hadn't been a xtian, I sure wouldn't claim I had been. Lying might be your modus operandi, as is believing you'd be forgiven by god for slitting my throat as you stated on another post this evening. That might be your cup of tea, but it isn't mine.

 

I maintain you need to get off the computer and get yourself to a mental health care professional PRONTO! You are sick and need help.

 

Diagnosis: FunnyMentalism.

 

Go Away.

[child like faith]

 

I repeat:

 

I've been reading your various posts tonight, child like, and you are quite obnoxious. From your spelling, grammar, writing style, and attitude, I find it difficult to believe you are an "older christian" as you state in your profile. Why are you here? Do you not comprehend the name and purpose of this EX-CHRISTIAN website? We've been down the xtian path and rejected it. If you want to DISCUSS issues, that's fine. But this site is not intended for use by proselytizing xtians. If you want to preach, set up and pay for your own website.

 

BTW, the only way I'd try to slit anybody's throat would be in self-defense. You are sick. Get help.

 

And remember, child-like, children readily follow and are easily manipulated by those in authority -- not something to which most mature, rational thinking adults should aspire.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"child like faith" claims to be an older christian--a lutheran, and has been spewing sarcastic comments, ignorance, and buybull verses all over our website today.

 

 

 

Im over the hill not under it yet . I can still take on some pip squeek like you with no problem.

 

And see you are a pompas self rightous pain in the ---------you have already justified your self slitting some ones throat even before doing it, with that self defence "B.S. ... "

 

 

 

thanks for showing all how brilliant your mind is . You have clearly shown your mastery over this old man .

[child like faith]

really smart you people .the brainest of You have impressed me so . I have learned so much from them and you also. you though not nearly as brainy as some of your buddies are so full of your self

you could carry this athiest thingy, your all so proud of all by your self.

 

LOL.... I never claimed to be as "brainy" as some of the other members here, nor is it a competition. But hey, at least I know how to spell ATHEIST correctly, unlike yourself.

 

 

the verses really bug you dont they . As they show how little you so called x christians really know about christianity.

 

Nope, the verses don't bug me a bit. I know all about xtianity. Been there, done that; rejected it. They don't call it ChristInsanity for nothing.

 

any one can claim to have been a christian . But no one has proved to any one you ever were. Your always spotting about prove this or that . Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

 

I don't have to prove a thing to you. But believe me, if I hadn't been a xtian, I sure wouldn't claim I had been. Lying might be your modus operandi, as is believing you'd be forgiven by god for slitting my throat as you stated on another post this evening. That might be your cup of tea, but it isn't mine.

 

I maintain you need to get off the computer and get yourself to a mental health care professional PRONTO! You are sick and need help.

 

Diagnosis: FunnyMentalism.

 

Go Away.

 

 

Allow this poor old crazy sick coot to teach you something about christianity before H e visits the mental institution . Who in the world taught you christianity any way Mother Terisa? Because you dont even know the basics.

 

You dont seem to be aware that Jesus work on the cross "has already won" the whole world forgivness of sin. This is know as "Objective Justification" OR some time called Universal Justification.

 

even those in Hell had their forgivness won for them also.

 

but its one thing to be forgiven as Gods gift and another thing to reap the benefits of that Gift.

 

this will be a rather poor way of explaning but its the best this crazy old man can do. Its just as if some one put a million dollars in your account and told you about it--- but you never had faith that it was Really their so you stayed a pauper

all your life and died pennyless.

[Astreja]

CLF, I have quite a few reasons for rejecting this alleged "deposit" in a hypothetical "salvation account."

1. I see the Bible as a collection of myths rather than an account of actual events.
   
2. To Me, Original Sin is a preposterous and immoral concept.
   
3. I don't see any plausible way for an allegedly omnipotent god to be injured by the "sins" of non-omnipotent beings.
   
4. I do not think that "salvation" is actually necessary. One would think that an actual god could find some better way of not torturing beings it supposedly loves... For instance, simply deciding to not torture them.
   
5. I do not see any way for consciousness to survive the death of the physical body, and see no evidence for the existence of an immortal soul.
   
6. I have absolutely no desire for "eternal life" in the sense of being "Me" forever.
   
7. I reject the alleged sacrifice of Jesus because I consider it immoral to allow someone else to die for My actions. Even if he did die, according to the Christian mythos he came right back to life several days later. Where's the sacrifice?
   
8. If "Hell" exists, and was created by your alleged god, I consider it My responsibillty to go there and stay there of my own free will, until all beings are released from the place.
   
9. And I feel no particular emotions, positive or negative, towards either Yahweh or Jesus. To Me, they're one-dimensional fictional characters in a poorly-written book.
   

[bdp]

Thank God their as stupid as the rest of Gods true believers. we know just how stupid one must be. .

 

What more really needs to be added?

[Ouroboros]

ChildLikeFaith,

 

So which way is it? Are we too dumb or too smart to get the Gospel?

[NonXNonExX]

I'm sorry, child-like old cowboy, but you are just too easy a target for some of us to pass up. However, i'll try to stick to the facts.

 

Most biblical scholars believe that Timothy is a late anonymous work. If you know so much about the bible, why didn't you quote from something at least accepted by the Xtian community? (Not that it would have made much difference since both the OT and NT are so full of mistakes, contradictions and fantasy, not to mention barbarity.)

 

My parting question is, "Why didn't Gawd give Xtian's the ability to spell and write clearly with proper grammar and punctuation." This seems to be a problem stretching all the way back to the NT GMark.

[chefranden]

... revealed them to little children.

 

 

Because only little children are gullible enough to believe the non-sense. Maybe you should grow up instead of playing at Peter Pan.

[chefranden]

...Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

 

What would you accept as proof?

 

 

Here is a question for you. Answering it will allow you to show us how actually brainy you are as compared to us. Why is Paul's soteriology superior to Ezekiel's? Please include all the relevant passages, and please write your answer in clear whole sentences for the sake of us less brainy types who don't read code well.

 

 

Signed, Not a Real Cowboy.

[florduh]

this will be a rather poor way of explaning but its the best this crazy old man can do. Its just as if some one put a million dollars in your account and told you about it--- but you never had faith that it was Really their so you stayed a pauper

all your life and died pennyless.

 

It's too easy to make fun, so I'll give credit where it's due. Actually I think that's a rather good explanation.

 

There's also an interesting doctrine mentioned. If people in Hell have been forgiven, why are they being punished? Mainstream Christianity makes little enough sense, but this is really out there!

[Vigile]

ChildLikeFaith,

 

So which way is it? Are we too dumb or too smart to get the Gospel?

 

 

This is his head exploding trying to contemplate the answer.

[centauri]

any one can claim to have been a christian .

 

And anyone can claim to be a Christian.

 

But no one has proved to any one you ever were. Your always spotting about prove this or that . Yet you cant even prove any of you even deserve the title x christian.

 

Well, I'm not at all convinced you're the genuine article.

Have you abstained from marriage in order to devote your full attention to serving the Lord?

How many nursing homes and hospitals have you emptied with the wonder working healing power of Jesus?

[R. S. Martin]

I have a fairly large vocabulary in two languages, and can borrow from one or two more if needed, but I'm scratching bottom to find terminology adequate to describe the weirdo who has invaded this thread. Thanks to all who dealt with him. (I would have attributed the "weaker sex" to it had it not ascribed to male status itself.)

 

Mr. FunnyMental, next time address me as Ms Martin, please. Thank you.

 

I also appreciate your acknowledging my intelligence because it is substantial, even if I say so myself.

[Karhoof]

...address me as Ms Martin, please.

Hi Ms. Martin.

I just wanted to stop in and say hi to you and everyone else. My unbelief is doing just fine.

I've been incredibly busy lately and check in here when I can.

 

I'll try to stop back more often and add my two cents when I can.

It's good to see everybody!

 

 

 

 

Oops! Did I just take attention away from a troll?

My bad.

[buffettphan]

any one can claim to have been a christian .

 

Have you abstained from marriage in order to devote your full attention to serving the Lord?

How many nursing homes and hospitals have you emptied with the wonder working healing power of Jesus?

 

I bet he didn't drink a glass of poison with his lunch today either.

[R. S. Martin]

...address me as Ms Martin, please.

Hi Ms. Martin.

 

 

hi back to you Karhoof. Long time so see. Just felt to add the Ms part so no one takes offense at my "weaker sex" reference.

 

I just wanted to stop in and say hi to you and everyone else. My unbelief is doing just fine.

I've been incredibly busy lately and check in here when I can.

 

I'll try to stop back more often and add my two cents when I can.

It's good to see everybody!

 

Good to know things are find with you.

 

Oops! Did I just take attention away from a troll?

My bad.

 

Oh my! If that is the worst offense you ever commit...