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Accepting Jesus As Your Savior Will Never Be The Same


Abiyoyo
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All I can say is wow, it has been a long journey. A journey that has now come to reality, and many thoughts. My mind was endless, the thoughts were running rampant, my emotions were that of someone who just survived a heart attack. I felt weak, yet strong, knowing, yet lost; all in the same moment. A train going by 20 feet from me, is the only physical comparison that I can comprehend. It was like I couldn't hear anything else but the train. The train was my thoughts crashing against every other thought that existed within me.

 

This is the most surreal moment I have had since giving my life to God. Though my stance here recent has been that Christ was sent from the One True God, of the essence of the One True God, through the Holy Spirit's anointing, fulfilling the past Words of the prophets of God; I have to say that I am just stunned with this, and amazed. Incidentally, I feel something very strange about the way of my thoughts, and now that the train has passed, and I can hear once again. It's as though a still silence has come over me, feeling as if I just figured out what really happened in a bad situation in my physical life. I feel at peace, yet I am troubled knowing that the phrase, "Accept Jesus as your Savior today, invite Him in your heart"; and all the theological and doctrinal context around this phrase for many churches, will never be the same; that is if they acknowledge the discovery.

 

I don't know if I missed it somehow, or if I just haven't stumbled across it, but it is reality, and the truth of all the matters. They say Christian doctrine should not change, that Christ still showed himself to the disciples, having rose from the dead as they said he would; but though I agree and this is true, it is not that simple in light of Christian doctrine and theology. I ponder, wonder, and think for now.

 

What are your thoughts? Here is the link. Discovery Channel

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That documentary is over two years old, where have you been? You aren't trolling, are you?

 

Israeli archaeologist Joe Zias already tore that to shreds on his blog:

 

"75% of the names occurring on Jewish ossuaries during this period are from a pool of but 16 names. (http://www.uhl.ac/)"

 

"The important thing to remember here is that individuals outside of Judea, buried in Judea were named according to their place of origin, whereas in Judea this was not necessary. Had the names been Jesus of Nazareth, Mary of Nazareth, Joseph of Nazareth etc I would have been totally convinced that this may be the family tomb, but as none of the names have place of origin, they are all Judeans. "

 

For what it's worth, I don't think any archeological evidence will ever surface to kill Christianity. Jesus was either tossed into a mass grave and burned with all the other crucifixion victims, or his body was hidden away by his followers, or the bible really is true and Jesus just never bothered to explain what happened to anyone else, choosing instead to reveal himself and all sorts of secret knowledge to a maniac mass-murderer on the road to Damascus, choosing him to be the one to standardize Christianity and spread it around the world.

 

My money's on option A.

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"75% of the names occurring on Jewish ossuaries during this period are from a pool of but 16 names. (http://www.uhl.ac/)"

Which means that you would find Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Joseph, Mary, ... all over the place. Which also means that when they talked about "Jesus" or "Mark" in that time, it could have been anyone of 100,000 others. Just walk down the street for five minutes, and you would have bumped into a "Jesus" 10 times. That to me means that there were plenty of Jesus-es who were crucified, or talked about a better world, or did magical tricks, and then a plenitude of disciples with the same names, from different cults, got mixed up, and in the end with have just one Jesus doing all that stuff, and just one Mark being disciples, apostle, and martyr, while in reality it could have been many different people. Or put it this way, when Josephus mentions "Jesus" crucified and having this or that brother etc, it is just a plausible it's one of the other Jesus-es. I mean there must have been at least hundreds of them killed the same way. And hundreds of Marks in the early Church.

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"75% of the names occurring on Jewish ossuaries during this period are from a pool of but 16 names. (http://www.uhl.ac/)"

Which means that you would find Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Joseph, Mary, ... all over the place. Which also means that when they talked about "Jesus" or "Mark" in that time, it could have been anyone of 100,000 others. Just walk down the street for five minutes, and you would have bumped into a "Jesus" 10 times. That to me means that there were plenty of Jesus-es who were crucified, or talked about a better world, or did magical tricks, and then a plenitude of disciples with the same names, from different cults, got mixed up, and in the end with have just one Jesus doing all that stuff, and just one Mark being disciples, apostle, and martyr, while in reality it could have been many different people. Or put it this way, when Josephus mentions "Jesus" crucified and having this or that brother etc, it is just a plausible it's one of the other Jesus-es. I mean there must have been at least hundreds of them killed the same way. And hundreds of Marks in the early Church.

 

If you go to the link in the article, they went over that, and for this to be Jesus Christ's actual tomb is weighed out 600/1, or 599 that it is, and 1 that it isn't. I think James part being found helped that, as it says, James the brother of Jesus on it. So, they already did all the comparisons and that is the odds that they are Jesus of the Bible's tomb. And if I'm not mistaken, they found a complete copy of the Gospel of Phillip with the tombs.

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That documentary is over two years old, where have you been? You aren't trolling, are you?

 

Israeli archaeologist Joe Zias already tore that to shreds on his blog:

 

"75% of the names occurring on Jewish ossuaries during this period are from a pool of but 16 names. (http://www.uhl.ac/)"

 

"The important thing to remember here is that individuals outside of Judea, buried in Judea were named according to their place of origin, whereas in Judea this was not necessary. Had the names been Jesus of Nazareth, Mary of Nazareth, Joseph of Nazareth etc I would have been totally convinced that this may be the family tomb, but as none of the names have place of origin, they are all Judeans. "

 

For what it's worth, I don't think any archeological evidence will ever surface to kill Christianity. Jesus was either tossed into a mass grave and burned with all the other crucifixion victims, or his body was hidden away by his followers, or the bible really is true and Jesus just never bothered to explain what happened to anyone else, choosing instead to reveal himself and all sorts of secret knowledge to a maniac mass-murderer on the road to Damascus, choosing him to be the one to standardize Christianity and spread it around the world.

 

My money's on option A.

 

I read that and it was in conjunction with the whole James tomb being a forgery, I think. Anyway, the Israeli archaeologist was wrong in the James tomb aspect, and they determined that the tombs were genuine. As far as the names inscribed, I replied to that above. They lean toward this because of the unique grouping of the names, the copy of Gospel of Phillip, and the placement and all that it was highly possible to be the tomb of Jesus.

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I do agree that it may not change Christianity as most of them are stubborn anyway. If Jesus physical body is still on Earth though, it does raise some theological questions in the air, and causes more gray area, in my opinion.

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And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. - First Corinthians 15:17

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And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. - First Corinthians 15:17

 

Exactly, not to mention that it is in the Gospels that Jesus made it a point that, He was not a ghost, but flesh, and rose from the dead. This whole topic is really debated among believers and unbelievers, so now it is just another loop in the mix of possibilities. Dunno. Doesn't change my view all to much, but is causing me to reread the NT at the moment and look into each aspect of Jesus resurrection again.

 

For example. Saul had a medium bring Samuel up from the dead. Supposedly, by Jesus story of Lazarus and the rich man, hell is a place where one has a physical sense still, after death. Jesus when He showed Himself to the disciples said he was hungry. Maybe, the 'actual' physical body is not in the afterlife, yet we still has an appearance of flesh, and in the case of Jesus showing himself, the appearance of when he was crucified.

 

Anyway, that's a lot of 'ifs'. Still thinking. But, as far as the criticism about the tomb's, they have all been confirmed authentic, and an odd was given to how many to 1 it would be Christ's tomb as I said earlier.

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Maybe ... maybe ... maybe ...

 

Maybe its just a bunch of stories. Can't we just leave it like that?

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Maybe ... maybe ... maybe ...

 

Maybe its just a bunch of stories. Can't we just leave it like that?

 

I would still appreciate it in a historical way, just as I would appreciate any other historical find. Plus, even in history, any type of mystery, mythological story, surrounded by fantasy and unknown facts and possibilities, it causes great interest when a find is made that may speak of it. Maybe dinosaurs were just stories made up, until they found their bones, right? So, I know that's different, but in the same historical context for my mind.

 

But I will discuss as long as the anyone likes to discuss. :)

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I enjoy history a lot. I purchased a book on Biblical archeology recently, and I really enjoy it. I think there is a lot of historical (and wisdom) truth in the Bible. I've always enjoyed sussing out the historical basis of myths, legends and fairy tales. It's like a treasure hunt. :)

 

Phanta

 

Yeah, looking into biblical history and archeology was fun. A lot like a treasure hunt, as you said. Right up to the end when you find the treasure box, open it up, and lo and behold you discover it's full of plastic doubloons.

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I do agree that it may not change Christianity as most of them are stubborn anyway.
Pot meet kettle.

:lmao: Sorry Yoyo...you asked for that one.

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Anyway, the Israeli archaeologist was wrong in the James tomb aspect, and they determined that the tombs were genuine.

 

Who's "they"? And when was Zias -- the man who personally numbered all the ossuaries found in the Talpiot tomb -- discredited? I don't see a link.

 

I went and found the latest information for myself, and will post it for others:

 

"Supporters of James Ossuary Inscription’s Authenticity Vindicated"

 

But the trial of the men accused of forging it's not over yet. They are having difficulty testing the patina -- the crud that collects on artifacts over time -- to see how old it is. Looks like it might get tossed out on a technicality.

 

And the statistical analysis about the probabality of the names all in one place is bullshit. Anyone can pull numbers out of his ass, which is how they were calculated in this case.

 

And if I'm not mistaken, they found a complete copy of the Gospel of Phillip with the tombs.

 

Yeah, you're really mistaken. The most complete copy was found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 and dates between 150 AD and 300 AD.

 

Conclusion: Some bone boxes were found 29 years ago. Some have names on them which were common around the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. There is some archaeological evidence to suggest they are genuine, some to suggest they are fakes. The documentary was timed to capitalize on the "Da Vinci Code" movie hype. People got rich. The end.

 

Next time, post links. It's foolish to just dismiss arguments and then introduce your own opinions without anything whatsover to back it up.

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I don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus, but you don't have to buy into conspiracy plots to disprove it. All you really have to do is just read the bible itself. Try reading the resurrection accounts in all four gospels and try to put all the events from all four gospels in chronological order. It can't be done because all four gospels disagree on practically almost everything. Would such shoddy "witnesses" really pass in a court of law?

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Would such shoddy "witnesses" really pass in a court of law?

I don't think they would. If these reports were direct eyewitnesses, and they couldn't get the time-line or story together, it would probably cast doubt in a criminal court.

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I read that and it was in conjunction with the whole James tomb being a forgery, I think. Anyway, the Israeli archaeologist was wrong in the James tomb aspect, and they determined that the tombs were genuine. As far as the names inscribed, I replied to that above. They lean toward this because of the unique grouping of the names, the copy of Gospel of Phillip, and the placement and all that it was highly possible to be the tomb of Jesus.

Don't discount Joe Zias. He does great work.

 

Anyhow, the tomb is a dud.

 

mwc

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Dr. Craig Evans appears on 100 Huntley Street regarding the "Lost Tomb of Jesus."

 

Evans was one of my professors in university. I think I know what he's going to say.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to watch it later.

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All I can say is wow,...

 

Sounds like a case of confirmation bias to me. Take 2 beers and call me in the morning.

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I saw the Discovery channel special and read the book which came out about it as well. They make an interesting case based primarily on the odds of that particular set of names being entombed together in a family tomb. In my opinion, the case they make is not strong enough. If they were able to obtain DNA samples and show the family relationships then that would add to their claim, but that is impossible since, as I recall, there was no DNA available from the ossuary with Jesus' name on it. Still, what they found is interesting and is at least some, though by itself not convincing, evidence that Jesus did not walk out of the tomb.

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All I can say is wow, it has been a long journey. A journey that has now come to reality, and many thoughts. My mind was endless, the thoughts were running rampant, my emotions were that of someone who just survived a heart attack. I felt weak, yet strong, knowing, yet lost; all in the same moment. A train going by 20 feet from me, is the only physical comparison that I can comprehend. It was like I couldn't hear anything else but the train. The train was my thoughts crashing against every other thought that existed within me.

 

This is the most surreal moment I have had since giving my life to God. Though my stance here recent has been that Christ was sent from the One True God, of the essence of the One True God, through the Holy Spirit's anointing, fulfilling the past Words of the prophets of God; I have to say that I am just stunned with this, and amazed. Incidentally, I feel something very strange about the way of my thoughts, and now that the train has passed, and I can hear once again. It's as though a still silence has come over me, feeling as if I just figured out what really happened in a bad situation in my physical life. I feel at peace, yet I am troubled knowing that the phrase, "Accept Jesus as your Savior today, invite Him in your heart"; and all the theological and doctrinal context around this phrase for many churches, will never be the same; that is if they acknowledge the discovery.

 

I don't know if I missed it somehow, or if I just haven't stumbled across it, but it is reality, and the truth of all the matters. They say Christian doctrine should not change, that Christ still showed himself to the disciples, having rose from the dead as they said he would; but though I agree and this is true, it is not that simple in light of Christian doctrine and theology. I ponder, wonder, and think for now.

 

What are your thoughts?

Maybe you suffered a stroke? :shrug:

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All I can say is wow, ... SNIP ... was my thoughts crashing against every other thought that existed within me.

Are you trying to convince us..... or yourself?

 

 

I don't know if I missed it somehow, or if I just haven't stumbled across it, but it is reality, and the truth of all the matters.

Do a little extra-curricular reading every now and then, rather than that dusty old book. ;)

Even "Answers in Genesis" refuted this issue over two years ago.

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2...ost-tomb-review

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  • 10 months later...

:smile:

Sounds like a case of confirmation bias to me. Take 2 beers and call me in the morning.

They say Christian doctrine should not change, that Christ still showed himself to the disciples, having rose from the dead as they said he would; but though I agree and this is true, it is not that simple in light of Christian doctrine and theology.

 

You're just typing a lot but you're not really saying anything. :shrug:

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