Issues with the people I work with

[Guest lunchmeat]

I was wondering if you could help me.

A new guy was recently hired where I work. He is always carring on about jesus, god's love, the neccesity to believe, etc. At first I sort of tuned him out, but then he started directing his "love-speech" at me. I have respectuflly explained to him that I don't believe in god, jesus, allah, or anything, and I really don't want to hear about his beliefs. Of course the response i got was, "Jesus has burdened my heart to work towards your salvation."

Folks, I'm pissed off! I want to take his little book and rip it to shreds in front of him. The problem is, It has been almost twenty years since i de-converted, and I don't know my way through the big book of idiocy like I used to. I need some ammo.

I have Ruth Hurmence Green's "Sceptic's guide to the bible," which has been helpful, but I need more. Can any of you suggest some good reeding material that is going to give me the ammo I need?

[scotter]

Welcome lunchmeat.

 

Before other members post, my advice is something different.

 

I suggest you don't take the matter in you own hands. Report to management that you are annoyed by your colleagues evangelical activities and that does not help to promote colleague relationship. Let them take care of it.

[Vigile]

him. The problem is, It has been almost twenty years since i de-converted, and I don't know my way through the big book of idiocy like I used to. I need some ammo.

I have Ruth Hurmence Green's "Sceptic's guide to the bible," which has been helpful, but I need more. Can any of you suggest some good reeding material that is going to give me the ammo I need?

 

I don't remember much about the bible anymore either. It's been around 12 or 13 years since my deconversion has been complete. I wouldn't use the bible. Make him explain to you why the bible has any relevance and don't let him quote scripture to prove the bible. It cannot witness for itself.

 

You might then go on the offensive. Asimov provided some great questions the other day in this thread. See where you get from these: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=2813&hl=

 

Just an idea. I'm sure you will find your own approach.

 

Welcome to the site.

[Checkmate]

Welcome to the forum, Lunchmeat!

 

I agree with scotter's recomendation. This dude is definitely upsetting the workplace and therefore ruining productivity. This matter MUST be brought to management's attention. He has NO RIGHT to spew religious dogma at you. ESPECIALLY after you told him to desist.

 

You might even want to warn this guy of your intent to lodge a complaint, thus giving him the chance to correct himself. (Your boss will be more favorable to you, IF you've tried to seek an amicable solution before involving the higher ups.)

 

If this doesn't work, THEN get nasty! Find a few bible contradictions, use arguments you find in this forum, and bind him up with cognative dissonance.

 

WARNING: That he said "The Lord has laid you on his heart", tells me that you're dealing with a "Charismatic". The most brain dead and insidious brand of Christian. LOGIC won't work. You may wind up having to club this asshole into submission before he will quit!

 

Keep us appraised, and once again...welcome!

[Godless Wonder]

I sort of disagree with the idea of taking it up with management. If that's the way you want to go, and the guy is really crossing the line (e.g. you've repeatedly made it very clear you don't want to talk about it and he still persists in annoying you repeatedly, that might be the way to go.)

 

OTOH, here in the U.S. (and I'm not sure where you are, so this may not apply) we've come to have this atmosphere where such topics are in a way taboo. If people are always running crying to management everytime someone starts up a Jesus conversation, eventually, the edict will come down in the form of company policy that discussions about religion are just plain forbidden. It's sort of like that already. Management has a point, and that point is to make money, and religious discusions don't generally make more money, and they get people agitated, and are thus generally a "bad thing," from management's point of view. However, people spend 8 or more hours a day working, and it forms a significant part of their life. Part of that involves interacting wtih other people, and I'd really prefer to work at a place where it's ok to have a discussion with people about controversial subjects. (Clearly it's not ok to go on badgering someone who's made it clear they don't want to talk about it anymore of course.)

 

So, depending on circumstances, "running" to management might be the best answer, or it might not.

 

In any case, here are a few links:

 

Not so much picky Bible stuff, as very well done philosophical essays, and there is a lot which is directly aimed at Christianity: http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/

 

Dennis McKinsey's Biblical Errancy:

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/

 

Clifford's The Ethics of Belief, a direct attack on the notion of faith:

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical..._of_belief.html

 

If you need evolution related stuff, talkorigins.org is good:

Noah's ark stuff is there too. The "must read" files are here:

http://talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-mustread.html

 

Peter Kirby has a lot of very serious stuff

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

 

Tons of stuff in the infidels library:

http://www.infidels.org/library/

 

Sometimes books about the brain are useful in discussions about the soul

and free will. Two I like are "What makes you tick, the brain in plain english" by thomas Czerner, and "Phantoms in the brain" by V. S. Ramachandran

 

Also, (seeing you have 1 post on this board) there's another board a little bigger than this one which you might find useful: http://iidb.org (not to detract from this board in any way, iidb is for non-religious people in general while this one is for Ex-C's specifically, so the two boards serve different purposes, and they really do "feel" very different. This one seems smaller, much more homey and informal, and more permissive of (the well deserved) anger directed Christianity's way.)

[Mythra]

There is so much out there now to read. You can study for a year and never leave the internet.

 

But, if you are into books, here are three that I highly recommend:

 

The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man, by Robert M. Price

 

The Jesus Puzzle, by Earl Doherty

 

The Jesus Mysteries, by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy.

 

All are available through Amazon.

 

They are awesome for arming yourself against the fiery darts of the gospel.

[Mr. Neil]

Scotter definitely has the right idea. You need to just go to management. Work is no place for such issues. You're there to help the company make money and earn a decent wage. Work is not a forum for politics and religion, and it's not fair for a coworker to make other coworkers uncomfortable.

[Mike D]

If people are always running crying to management everytime someone starts up a Jesus conversation, eventually, the edict will come down in the form of company policy that discussions about religion are just plain forbidden. 

Some companies actually have policies against employees doing political and religious recruiting on company property (I know mine does). Dicussing those things is one thing, but trying to recruit or convert people is a different matter because it opens the door for discrimination or even harrassment lawsuits. If the dude works at one of those types of companies he better be careful..... they usually take that kind of stuff pretty seriously and will act quickly to weed potential lawsuits out of their ranks...

[Brother Jeff]

Welcome, Brother Lunchmeat!

 

I had a similar experience with an employer a couple of years ago. I went to work for a small furniture refinishing company with intentions of learning the trade. Things didn't work out though, since the owner of the company was an extremely devout fundamentalist Christian who hired me primarily because he wanted god to wave His Magic Sky Wand and heal me of Bipolar Disorder so I could be a strong witness for Kryasst, not because he really wanted to teach me his trade. I posted my thoughts on my experience to my glorious site back when it happened (March 2003), and thought they might be worth sharing here, though they are rather emotionally intense. Believe me, I understand your discomfort and anger! I tend to think that trying to settle this issue on a personal level is best first, but if this guy won't stop haranguing you with his religious bullshit, then definitely take it up with management. You can read about my experience at the following links:

 

http://www.religionisbullshit.org/fundie_hell1.html

 

http://www.religionisbullshit.org/fundie_hell2.html

[Fweethawt]

If everything else that has been suggested doesn't work, tell the guy that the holy spirit gives Satan a rim-job on a regular basis.

 

Then proceed to tell him that in stating that, you've just committed the unforgivable sin by blaspheming the holy spirit and therefore there is nothing that he and jesus can possibly do in order to save you.

 

 

Oh yeah...

 

Welcome to the forum!!

[Mr. Neil]

Hey, I have an idea. Look him right in the eye and say, "I deny the holy spirit."

[Caretaker]

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

 

I appreciate your concern over me, however, this is not the time nor the place to share your religious beliefs, nor am I interested. I ask that you please cease discussing your religion with me because I find it offensive. If you cannot honor my request, I will be compelled to bring this issue up to management.

 

Sincerely,

 

lunchmeat

 

 

 

 

You have my permission to use this or a derivative of it.

[Guest Red Snyper]

Some companies actually have policies against employees doing political and religious recruiting on company property (I know mine does). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was let go because of this when I was a fundy. I would put Chick Tracts in people's bags and one lady called the higher ups on me. Thank God I had a much better job somewhere else. When I heard that I was let go I rejoiced being counted "worthy to suffer shame in his name". I was even bragging to the members of my small church community that I was persecuted in Jesus' name.

 

Needless to say, I don't do that anymore.

 

RS

[Checkmate]

If we were to put this to a vote, I'd vote for Khan's form letter. I think that is the perfect approach. I don't see one thing wrong, nor offensive, nor libelous (i.e actionable) written therein. I'd use that AS IS.

[Brother Jeff]

Back in the late 1980s I was working at a hotel refilling the minibars while guests were out of their rooms. I was a very evangelistic fundie at the time. I encountered some Moron, I mean Mormon guests, once while making my rounds. They weren't there, but there was a Book of Moron out on the counter or something, so I knew. I was concerned for their inner spooks, so I left them a note challenging their beliefs and "correcting" some of them in the Name of JESUS, and I got fired for it when the Morons, I mean Mormons, complained to the management.

[Caretaker]

If we were to put this to a vote, I'd vote for Khan's form letter.  I think that is the perfect approach.  I don't see one thing wrong, nor offensive, nor libelous (i.e actionable) written therein.  I'd use that AS IS.

Thanks for the endorse... It helps when I go into "What would Picard do?" mode. (Ooops, did I just say that?)

 

I would say that it would work be okay if the employer is fine with complaintant bringing the issue up to the co-worker on the first offense.

 

I don't know how many employers demand that you bring it up to management first. Part of me wants to let the manager know what is going on, in case he does this to other employees, but I still think the violator should still get a fair warning.

[Guest Red Snyper]

I got fired for it when the Morons, I mean Mormons, complained to the management.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not even a warning for the first offense? Seems like they should have just gave you a slap on the wrist first. I mean, it wasn't that big of deal. A simple, "Don't do it again" should have sufficed. But that is just how I see it.

 

RS

[Mike D]

I was let go because of this when I was a fundy.  I would put Chick Tracts in people's bags and one lady called the higher ups on me. Thank God I had a much better job somewhere else. When I heard that I was let go I rejoiced being counted "worthy to suffer shame in his name".  I was even bragging  to the members of my small church community that I was persecuted in Jesus' name.

 

Needless to say, I don't do that anymore.

 

RS

Wow, sorry to hear you were sacked because of it. It's kind of unfortunate because I don't think people do it for any reason other than they are geniunely concerned for their co-workers. But at the same time if your co-workers believe something else they might actually perceive your trying to convert them as a threat, as I know some Muslims do. Anyway I just avoid the topic altogether unless I am at happy hour with my co-workers and we've all had a few drinks first...

[Brother Jeff]

Not even a warning for the first offense? Seems like they should have just gave you a slap on the wrist first. I mean, it wasn't that big of deal. A simple, "Don't do it again" should have sufficed. But that is just how I see it.

 

Nope, no warning. I agree that a warning should have sufficed, but for them it was a firing offense the first time. I learned from the experience, though. I never again harangued anybody with my religious bullshit while on the job.

[Kay]

Also - keeping a log wouldn't hurt.

 

Time of day:

Duration:

 

If worse comes to worse, being able to tangibly demonstrate the amount of work time wasted by your co-worker on preaching should help management determine who's right and who's wrong.

 

And the act of openly keeping a log, marking the time your co-worker gives you the talk right in front of him should put a little more common sense back into him.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Welcome to the forum, Lunchmeat!

 

I agree with scotter's recomendation.  This dude is definitely upsetting the workplace and therefore ruining productivity.  This matter MUST be brought to management's attention.  He has NO RIGHT to spew religious dogma at you.  ESPECIALLY after you told him to desist.

 

You might even want to warn this guy of your intent to lodge a complaint, thus giving him the chance to correct himself.  (Your boss will be more favorable to you, IF you've tried to seek an amicable solution before involving the higher ups.)

 

If this doesn't work, THEN get nasty!  Find a few bible contradictions, use arguments you find in this forum, and bind him up with cognative dissonance.

 

WARNING:  That he said "The Lord has laid you on his heart", tells me that you're dealing with a "Charismatic".  The most brain dead and insidious brand of Christian.  LOGIC won't work.  You may wind up having to club this asshole into submission before he will quit!

 

Keep us appraised, and once again...welcome! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You said it TK421..and how!

 

Welcome to the forum, Lunchmeat!!!