TheMathGuy Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I came across this video randomly on YouTube: A channel that, ironically, calls itself "theTRUTHgroup" claims to have overturned the accusation of using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy in arguing that there are no ex-Christians, by using--you guessed it--SCRIPTURE! Yep folks, that's right--Scripture trumps logic. Don't watch it unless you're in a fighting mood! The number of fallacies and outright misrepresentations in both the video and the comments on it are simply astounding. So I guess none of us were really, truly "saved". ( Of course no Christian has ever been "saved" either, since there is no salvation from death. ) Why do I feel an irresistible urge to tear the video apart in the comments? [end rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Wow. What poor logic. So marriage is defined by sex? What happens if a man, who is paralyzed from the waist down gets married and, as a result of his paralysis, she is never penetrated by him and, thus, remains a virgin? According to that man's logic, they were never married! Wait a minute! I think I get it! I finally understand what he was saying! In order to be saved, you have to be fucked by god! And since god totally screwed me for the last 17 years of my life, then I don't have to sweat it after all! Poor logic throughout. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Actually, the bible says who the true Christians are. It says true Christians will be able to drink poison and survive in Mark 16:17-18 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: (A)in My name they will cast out demons, they will (B)speak with new tongues; 18they will ©pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will (D)lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." So, unless those xtians can drink poison and survive, then they're not true xtians either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticjoe Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 His definition of a Christian is someone who really has had an intimate relationship with God. Since God doesn't exist, by this definition, no one is a Christian. It is totally appropriate to say "I was a Christian, just like you. I thought I had a personal relation with God, just like you. Of course neither of us really had a personal relationship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Most apostates (let's say Christians who become something else entirely: Buddhist, pagan, atheist, "no religious preference stated", etc.) were marginal believers. Apostasy from wishy-washy mainline/liberal denominations is far, far more common than apostasy from evangelical/conservative/fundy denominations. And in the fundy denoms, apostasy is much more common among people who were marginal from the get-go and never really fully drank the Kool-Aid. This describes many people here. A true believer-turned-apostate from a fundy denom is the rarest of all creatures (apostates). So in other words, there's a small grain of truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Most apostates (let's say Christians who become something else entirely: Buddhist, pagan, atheist, "no religious preference stated", etc.) were marginal believers. Apostasy from wishy-washy mainline/liberal denominations is far, far more common than apostasy from evangelical/conservative/fundy denominations. And in the fundy denoms, apostasy is much more common among people who were marginal from the get-go and never really fully drank the Kool-Aid. This describes many people here. A true believer-turned-apostate from a fundy denom is the rarest of all creatures (apostates). So in other words, there's a small grain of truth to it. That I was Chief, that I was. Something quite a bit more dedicated than fundyism too. I think terrorism is an appropriate word at this point, ehehe. http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv....m/msg37020.html > Now, go to Dope, Inc., bottom of p. 94 to find out who owns Allianz and ask > yourself if maybe these people weren't buying both sides of the derivatives > contract and didn't lose any money at all. That's what Sindona was saying > about these derivatives trading--it's a money laundering technique. The > problem, though is when some institutional investor who doesn't own the > other side of the contract invests other people's money and loses. > > p. 94: > Allianz represents a coalition of the oldest and nastiest German family > fondi, or trust funds, including those of the old Bavarian Wittelsbach > dynasty, and the most evil family in German-speaking Europe, Thurn und > Taxis. It is the Thurn und Taxis family and their in-laws, the defunct > Portuguese royal family of Braganza, who created and funded the terrorist > organization Tradition, Family, and Property, implicated in plans to > assassinate Pope John Paul II. TFP's Venezuelan chapter was banned by the > Venezuelan government. > END QUOTE Aye True Believers alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 They did a comparative study of Palestinian terrorists and ultra-orthodox Jewish terrorists that were locked up in an Israeli prison. And they found that both were equally bat-shit crazy in exactly the same way. "No shit!" some of you might say. Well, they busted out every psychiatric/psychometric/sociological measure there was to bust out. And the two were indistinguishable. The only difference was the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 They did a comparative study of Palestinian terrorists and ultra-orthodox Jewish terrorists that were locked up in an Israeli prison. And they found that both were equally bat-shit crazy in exactly the same way. "No shit!" some of you might say. Well, they busted out every psychiatric/psychometric/sociological measure there was to bust out. And the two were indistinguishable. The only difference was the cause. Lmao. Not surprising. I want to see this study bro, like it might help me heal or something if you can dig it up and send me a link to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Lmao. Not surprising. I want to see this study bro, like it might help me heal or something if you can dig it up and send me a link to it. I'll shoot off some e-mails and see if I can get an electronic copy. Shouldn't be too difficult. Give it about a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I came across this video randomly on YouTube: A channel that, ironically, calls itself "theTRUTHgroup" claims to have overturned the accusation of using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy in arguing that there are no ex-Christians, by using--you guessed it--SCRIPTURE! Yep folks, that's right--Scripture trumps logic. Don't watch it unless you're in a fighting mood! The number of fallacies and outright misrepresentations in both the video and the comments on it are simply astounding. So I guess none of us were really, truly "saved". ( Of course no Christian has ever been "saved" either, since there is no salvation from death. ) Why do I feel an irresistible urge to tear the video apart in the comments? [end rant] This is such a joke. This guy was just like wrong on so many levels. First off, his analogy is really really bad; it's circular and self serving. Secondly it's just like, insulting really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Lmao. Not surprising. I want to see this study bro, like it might help me heal or something if you can dig it up and send me a link to it. I'll shoot off some e-mails and see if I can get an electronic copy. Shouldn't be too difficult. Give it about a week or two. Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Moon Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 okay I think that guy in the vid lost his creditabily when he said that the true scotman thing was stupid and then said it still true for christians and anyway there are so many forms of christianatly that you can't tell whether you belong to the right one or not despite ALL of them saying that their version is the right one. As for Apostary well I thought you guys might be interested in what the JW's have to say about this. The following article is from one of their publications called "Resoning from the scriptures" it was published in 1989 and it is used to help them deal with questions when they go door to door. I am copying and pasting it from the 2003 version of the Watchtower Library CD.ROM. Apostasy Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization. Should we expect that apostates will arise within the Christian congregation? 1 Tim. 4:1: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.” 2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” Some identifying marks of apostates— They seek to make others their followers, thus causing sectarian divisions Acts 20:30: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” 2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.” They may profess to believe in Christ but treat lightly the preaching and teaching work he assigned to his followers Luke 6:46: “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?” Matt. 28:19, 20: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Matt. 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization Jude 8, 11: “These men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones. Too bad for them, because they . . . have perished in the rebellious talk of Korah!” Num. 16:1-3, 11, 19-21: “Korah . . . proceeded to get up, together with . . . two hundred and fifty men of the sons of Israel, chieftains of the assembly . . . So they congregated themselves against Moses and Aaron and said to them: ‘That is enough of you, because the whole assembly are all of them holy and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you lift yourselves up above the congregation of Jehovah?’ . . . [Moses said:] ‘You and all your assembly who are gathering together are against Jehovah. As for Aaron, what is he that you men should murmur against him?’ When Korah got all the assembly together against them at the entrance of the tent of meeting, then Jehovah’s glory appeared to all the assembly. Jehovah now spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: ‘Separate yourselves from the midst of this assembly, that I may exterminate them in an instant.’” Not only do they abandon the true faith but they then “beat” their former associates, using public criticism and other methods to hinder their work; the efforts of such apostates are devoted to tearing down, not building up Matt. 24:45-51: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? . . . But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.” 2 Tim. 2:16-18: “Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.” Would faithful Christians welcome apostates into their presence, either personally or by reading their literature? 2 John 9, 10: “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.” Rom. 16:17, 18: “I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. . . . By smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones.” Would any serious harm come from satisfying one’s curiosity about the thinking of apostates? Prov. 11:9: “By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin.” Isa. 32:6: “The senseless one himself will speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself.” (Compare Isaiah 65:13, 14.) How serious is apostasy? 2 Pet. 2:1: “These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.” Job 13:16: “Before him [God] no apostate will come in.” Heb. 6:4-6: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away [“if they then commit apostasy,” RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.” if you want to look any of the passages up in context in their version of the bible then go here New World Translation Hopefully this will give some insight on how JW's think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Anyone who can listen to bagpipe music and not kill themselves are true Scotsmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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