LilaMae Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 It seems sometimes that whenever I, or any other non-Christian, does something altruistic or otherwise considered good, a prominent reaction amongst Christians is one of surprise. They (mainly) don't mean it to be hurtful, but it really pisses me off! Why shouldn't a non-Christian do something unselfish and for the good of others? Does anyone else experience this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I know a person who is not religious who started a wonderful charitable service which has been very successful. He made some presentations in various churches (and other places, too). He said that he was surprised that the Christian groups were wholly unimpressed whereas non-Christian groups were very impressed. I explained to him that from a Christian perspective nothing is as important as saving someone from hell and that that is the basis for most Christian charitable endeavors. So, if, as an atheist, you are "doing good" it is to no end, but if a Christian "does good" it is for an important end - saving someone from hell. Of course, this is total bunk since there is no such place as hell, but that is the Christian mindset and may help explain some of the surprised looks you have gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKR Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 It seems sometimes that whenever I, or any other non-Christian, does something altruistic or otherwise considered good, a prominent reaction amongst Christians is one of surprise. They (mainly) don't mean it to be hurtful, but it really pisses me off! Why shouldn't a non-Christian do something unselfish and for the good of others? Does anyone else experience this? Because they are selfish douches who only do things to please god and/or have been too busy demonizing (or buying into the demonization) Atheists to realize that some people don't need threats/rewards to do "good." They have to tell themselves that Atheists don't want to be Christians because they just want to be evil dicks, and that without god, everyone will be douche bags. They can't accept that "good" people will be tortured or that they have a valid reason for not being a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Well what I learnt along my way is not that christians are surprised that a non christian would do something benevolent or good, but if you aren't doing it for god who are you doing it for? Fundies especially will say that those who do good are doing it for self recognition, to glorify self, that's if they aren't doing it to glorify god (make him look good and give him credit) and you don't have jesus then it means diddly squat in the eyes of god and you are still going to be cast in the lake of fire! Charming isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I do some "behind the scenes" favors for a few elderly in the neighborhood, but I make my wife take the credit if discovered because I hate the "oh lawdy, gawd has been so good to me, you were sent by gawd" that is sure to come. And I'm thinking lady, an atheist without a religious bone in his body helped you. Gawd didn't do shit. But I never say it. Get them little ole hens cacklin' and I'd never hear the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 My Father tells me that god uses the ungodly to even do acts of good, or if I do something good and he does give me credit for it, he instantly try's to downplay the effect of my charity by quickly reminding me how temporary and small it is, in the scale of some grand picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 This is very embarrassing for me. I hate to admit this but I have been very guilty of exactly that type of attitude. I was raised to believe that atheists were mean-spirited, full of hate, and basically out to destroy us god-fearing good folks. It wasn’t something that I thought about. It’s just the way it was. Years ago I became very good friends with a man at work who was very open about his atheism. He was a brilliant, yet highly unusual man who did not appear to like anyone except me (go figure). His harsh, sarcastic way of behaving toward everyone else pretty much supported what I had been taught. We became very close and I can distinctly remember feeling shocked the first time I visited his home and discovered how kind and gentle he was with his two cats. He seemed to love animals as much as he disliked most people. Years later, I met someone else who was very outspoken about his atheism. Although a bit of a curmudgeon, this man was not only kind to animals, but he went out of his way to be kind and helpful to less fortunate people or just someone who needed a favor. Once again, I vividly remember wondering what made him tick and being very surprised that someone who did not believe in god would be so kind. I admit that I was being incredibly stupid and narrow-minded. I'm embarrassed and sorry about it. I will also admit that just the memory of what I thought is a big part of why I am having difficulty admitting that I am an atheist. I’ve written it here, but I have not looked someone in the eye and said it. I guess I expect them to recoil in horror or wave garlic in my face. Sigh… I can be such a wimp! (In my defense, I did tell the social worker when I was in rehab to write “none” in the religion space and forcefully corrected her when she said, “Oh, I’ll just put Christian.”) Maybe I just need to practice. I'm going out tonight. Perhaps I’ll find an unsuspecting victim and spring it on them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Doll Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Well what I learnt along my way is not that christians are surprised that a non christian would do something benevolent or good, but if you aren't doing it for god who are you doing it for? Fundies especially will say that those who do good are doing it for self recognition, to glorify self, that's if they aren't doing it to glorify god (make him look good and give him credit) and you don't have jesus then it means diddly squat in the eyes of god and you are still going to be cast in the lake of fire! Charming isn't it? Especially when you realize that they really are doing it for themselves. In their 'giving glory to god' and feigning humility they are in reality simply trying to prove and show the world what great, godly christians they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I just want to send you love, Noob. From one probably-atheist to one closet-atheist. *hugs* Phanta Thank you dear Phanta!!! I’m sending love back to you! It’s off topic for this thread so I will make it brief. I picked a very dear, very easy going friend of mine last night and laughingly told her that I was going to practice on her. I announced I was an atheist, she told me she was too, and then in pure Florida fashion there were huge bolts of lightning and big booms of thunder. It was hysterical!!! It was already raining so I am pretty sure that I didn’t invoke it, but it was damned funny nonetheless!!! On topic, once I get the word out, I think I will find it amusing when people are surprised that I would be kind, good, and godless. But then, I'm easily amused!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 15, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2009 Especially when you realize that they really are doing it for themselves. In their 'giving glory to god' and feigning humility they are in reality simply trying to prove and show the world what great, godly christians they are. You hit the nail on the head! Xtians are the biggest narcissistic egomaniacs around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Because they are selfish douches who only do things to please god and/or have been too busy demonizing (or buying into the demonization) Atheists to realize that some people don't need threats/rewards to do "good." They have to tell themselves that Atheists don't want to be Christians because they just want to be evil dicks, and that without god, everyone will be douche bags. They can't accept that "good" people will be tortured or that they have a valid reason for not being a Christian. Of course I live in Liberalchristianville, but I've found that Christians herebouts are not selfish douches who only do things to please god. Even though most people here are Christian it is a faux pas to mention God in connection to one's do gooding. Christians here aren't so hot about having a "personal savior", and as a consequence they keep their religion fairly private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I do some "behind the scenes" favors for a few elderly in the neighborhood, but I make my wife take the credit if discovered because I hate the "oh lawdy, gawd has been so good to me, you were sent by gawd" that is sure to come. And I'm thinking lady, an atheist without a religious bone in his body helped you. Gawd didn't do shit. But I never say it. Get them little ole hens cacklin' and I'd never hear the end of it. This made me remember another annoying thing that my parents did when they were here. No matter what the circumstances, when something good happens or someone does something nice... it's a miracle from Jesus. On the way here they had a stop over in Calgary for 3 hours. So they went to the airport food court for lunch. When they got on their plane they realized my mother had left her jacket in the food court. There was very little time left before the plane took off, so one of the flight attendants took off running from the plane and retrieved my mother's jacket! Now, I think this is a great story. I think the flight attendant and the airline deserve koodos for great service. Do my parents think that? Oh no, all they kept talking about was the "miracle" of my mother's returned jacket! WTF? Where was the miracle? Did Jesus make that flight attendant run to the food court? Or was the miracle that Jesus didn't allow anyone to take your jacket off the chair? Then while they were here we went to a restaurant for dinner and the next day my dad realized he didn't have his ATM card. This led to their second "miracle". The card was still at the restaurant from the night before! Oh Wow! Jesus protected your ATM card. Nothing can happen simply because there are decent, caring people on the planet. Everything is about Jesus. *sigh* Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Somewhere in the conversation, he said something about how he wasn't big into church stuff, but some higher power had sent "an angel" (that's me!) to him when he needed it most. I leaned in a bit: "Well, I'm pretty much an atheist, but I'm happy to help." His eyes got real "Oh"-like...and then he let himself cuss for the rest of our chat. Phanta Slamming the desk laughing. After all that beautiful help you gave him, you gave him an even better gift - the gift of letting him be freely himself - real without being judged. People before piety . How's that for a humanist bumper sticker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [Of course I live in Liberalchristianville, but I've found that Christians herebouts are not selfish douches who only do things to please god. Even though most people here are Christian it is a faux pas to mention God in connection to one's do gooding. Christians here aren't so hot about having a "personal savior", and as a consequence they keep their religion fairly private. That’s the way it is here in New Hampshire too. There are not a lot of church goers around here, but those who do attend services don’t wear it on their sleeves like it was some kind of badge of honor. I work with a couple of Christians who attend weekly services and both of them are some of the finest people I know. One of them is going to Haiti next month to help a small community. He asked our work group for donations and I was more than happy to help out. He did mention that he was going with his church but it was just in passing and did not appear to be the primary motivation for him to be helping out these desperate people. He is just a very nice man who happens to be Christian. Christians around here seem more likey to walk the walk rather than talk the talk. I can respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I could tell it was very hard for him to open up emotionally to people. He was very proud, and had been brought very low. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that he was proud because he couldn't open up emotionally to people? If so, then that's inaccurate. Usually, closing oneself off emotionally doesn't have anything to do with pride. It's a defense mechanism, and it's done to preserve yourself from further emotional harm. That was nice what you did for that guy, though. This part I quoted above just stuck out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Skeptic, I will paraphrase: He is used to doing for himself and others, not being done for. Independence is a huge source of pride for him, the center of his sense of self-worth. His current circumstances had brought him to a place where he could not go it alone physically and emotionally, and needed to reach out for help, and that felt like deep failure. Okay, I don't know this guy's situation or what he's been through, but here's my take on it. I do the same thing you're describing, and for me, pride is not involved at all. I tend to be self-reliant emotionally, but not because that's the way I want to be. I want to be able to reach out to people. It's just very difficult for me. I was forced into a position where I was the only person I had left to depend on. Everyone who I could've turned to for help was either abusing me or didn't understand the situation, so I had to withdraw emotionally. It wasn't really a choice for me. I could've continued to wear my emotions on my sleeve, but I would've been taken advantage of, beaten down worse, and overall in worse shape than I turned out to be. It was necessary to my survival, and it's something that I had to learn at a very young age. It's something that I've had to use for at least a decade and it's very difficult to get out of that mindset after having been in it for so long. When I've had to reach out for help, it doesn't feel like failure on my part. I don't feel ashamed when I ask for help, especially when I receive empathy and understanding in return. Like I said before, it's just something that's very difficult for me because of my prior situation and it's unfamiliar territory. I'm very reluctant to put myself in that position because of the times where I've been vulnerable and I got torn down emotionally. Kids would hit me harder when I'd cry. It was the reaction that they were looking for. I got ridiculed by my parents for crying and for showing emotion. "Stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about." That sort of deal. As a result, I had to hide my emotions to show them that their abuse wasn't affecting me. People can only go so deep with me emotionally until I have to push them away, and it's not because I'm purposely being mean or anything, it's a defense mechanism that's left over from that time period. I also tend to dissociate and that results in pushing people away. So no, it doesn't have anything to do with pride for me, it's not something that I consciously choose to do, and I suspect that it's the same for this guy, but I don't know for sure. That's a very sore spot for me, when someone says that an emotionally reserved person is being that way out of pride. I've been told the same thing a number of times, actually, and it's made me very angry. I don't like being misunderstood in that manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts