Arctic Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 in the church's I was involved in and the perspective I used to hold was that god was perfect, he saw the past,present,future and all decisions were perfect and his plan was perfect, but I have recently thought about some things and recently wrote a poem I shared with at our local open mic event we hold in our town, about perfection, and what I wanted to ask was, the god of the bible seems to need love and worship, needs respect, but the moment he needs something does that not indicate that he is not complete and has a need to fill which would not make him perfect for perfection has no needs for its already complete and perfect? has anyone thought or noticed something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 in the church's I was involved in and the perspective I used to hold was that god was perfect,he saw the past,present,future and all decisions were perfect and his plan was perfect, but I have recently thought about some things and recently wrote a poem I shared with at our local open mic event we hold in our town, about perfection, and what I wanted to ask was, the god of the bible seems to need love and worship, needs respect, but the moment he needs something does that not indicate that he is not complete and has a need to fill which would not make him perfect for perfection has no needs for its already complete and perfect? has anyone thought or noticed something like this? It is explained by saying that it is we that need to do these things for our own good. Its not about stroking God's ego. I guess it is something like needing vitamin c to stay healthy. But then if we need something then we are not perfect. Therefore the perfect god made something imperfect which implies that he's a fuck up and therefore not perfect. Unless of course he intended to make us imperfect, but then why is he mad that we are imperfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 but then why is he mad that we are imperfect? And why does he feel compelled to set us on fire? "Suzie! You spilled ink on the carpet! (Drags her into the basement and gets out the blowtorch) "This is only right and just, since *I* never spill ink on carpets." The deity of the Bible isn't God, nor is he compassionate, good, or beneficial to humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decafaholic Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I agree! Instead of the word "perfect" though, I use the word "needy". I learned about this from reading Tomorrow's God by Neale Donald Walsch. Christians say that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, basically Chuck Norris times 100! But God wants things to happen that don't happen. Example: It's His will that none should perish but all come to repentence. Well, obviously everyone in the world hasn't repented. So...I guess God just couldn't make that happen, huh? Christians say that God doesn't NEED us to take his word to the nations, but he CHOOSES us to be the ones to spread the gospel. In other words, God could have used another method, like, oh something faster, simpler and less painful like making a personal appearance to every person so we would believe. And if God really is all-powerful and omnipresent, it would only take him, like 5 minutes total to satisfactorally reveal himself to the whole world and make believers out of all 6 billion of us. But instead God "chooses" to do things the old fashioned way. Let thousands upon thousands of people die and go to hell while missionaries get foreign language training, fill out mounds of paperwork, spend a couple years in seminary, spend a couple years pastoring and then submit an application to a foreign missions board (The process one goes through to be an Assemblies of God missionary makes the DMV look like a cakewalk!) while also taking tests, tests, tests to get the appropriate certification then spend 2 years fundraising, then once they do finally get on the missions field, a lot of countries have laws that make openly preaching Cristianity (or any religion other than the state religion) a crime. If God actually existed and was all-powerful and wanted everyone in the world to believe in Jesus, don't you think he would make it a little easier? A rational, thinking person would have to come to one of these conclusions about the Christian God: 1. The Christian God exists but is not all-powerful so...why call him God? 2.The Christian God exists and is all-powerful and likes to watch people go to hell...so why worship him? 3. The Christian God does not exist. I'm going with #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 the god of the bible seems to need love and worship, needs respect, but the moment he needs something does that not indicate that he is not complete and has a need to fill which would not make him perfect for perfection has no needs for its already complete and perfect?has anyone thought or noticed something like this? I have heard and taught that god can order us to love him because his nature demands such devoition. He's got the ultimate measure of gravitas. So when he commands us to "love the lord thy god . . .' it is only because it the the natural thing to do in response to the multitude of his perfections and the fact that he is author of all life. Or course that ignores the thorny issues of theodicy noted in decafaholics comment. But, it sounds sweet enough, like icing on a cupcake, to make people forget the evil and suffering issue for a little while. More and more I have come to see the strength of this question: "If god knows me and is all powerful, why can't he show himself to me in a way that is convincing enough to me, but still allows a response of faith that everyone in the church is so 'ga-ga' over?" This is not an unreasonable request like , 'lord, give me a million dollars.' It doesn't demand extraordinary proof, just enough proof for the likes of me. SO, what's the big deal. jehovah shouldn't break a sweat at all. ESPECIALLY, since 'he loves me and has a plan . . .' Yet, . . . <dial tone> . . . nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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